I've never seen anything like this before. Where does the military get off???

They are tryin' to take away a veteran's honorable discharge base on his anti-war protesting.

America is no longer a great country anymore!

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Iraq_vet_fighting_military_over_war_0601.html

"A veteran of the Iraq war is accusing the military of trying to stifle the freedom of speech he volunteered to fight to protect.

After serving his country in Iraq, former Marine Sgt. Adam Kokesh grew disillusioned with US involvement there and became an anti-war activist. He participated in demonstrations around Washington, including Operation First Casualty, which was organized by Iraq Veterans Against the War in March.

Kokesh's anti-war activity and his correspondence with Marine investigators has rankled the military enough that it is working to revoke the veteran's "honorable discharge" designation. Kokesh will appear before a military hearing in Kansas City, Mo., Monday to fight the military's attempt to change his discharge status to "other than honorable."

Kokesh's attorney's call the military's move to change his discharge status unprecedented, and he has the country's largest veterans organization behind him in his fight to protect vets' freedom of speech.

"These Marines went to war, did their duty, and were honorably discharged from the active roles. I may disagree with their message, but I will always defend their right to say it," said Gary Kurplus, who leads the 2.4-million-member Veterans of Foreign Wars. "Trying to hush up and punish fellow Americans for exercising the same democratic right we're trying to instill in Iraq is not what we're all about. Someone in the Marine Corps needs to exercise a little common sense and put an end to this matter before it turns into a circus."

The demonstration involved Kokesh and other vets performing mock patrols around the nation's capital to offer Americans a peek at what life is like in Iraq. Kokesh wore his Marine fatigues with his name, rank and Marine Corps insignia patches removed. The military told Kokesh that wearing the uniform violated Defense Department regulations, despite the fact that he had been honorably discharged from the service the previous year. Kokesh is still part of the Inactive Ready Reserve, which allows for discharged troops to be called back to service in case of an emergency.

Kokesh was informed via e-mail that he may be violating regulations, and he did not take the admonishment lightly. He responded to the officer who had sent the e-mail, advising him not to waste time on "such petty issues, (while) our fellow Marines continue to die in futility...."

"So no, I am not replying to your e-mail in order to acknowledge my understanding of my obligations and responsibilities," Kokesh wrote, " but rather to ask you to please, kindly, go **** yourself."

Kokesh was expected to appear at a press conference in Washington Friday before leaving for Kansas City. RAW STORY will provide updates after the press conference."

Kokesh is still part of the Inactive Ready Reserve, which allows for discharged troops to be called back to service in case of an emergency.

Ay!...there's the rub...he shoulda read the fine print. I don't think he's got a case. You lose some freedom of speech when in the military. It's in the contract. Read a book called Chasing Ghosts by a guy who was in the military and he had to be REALLY careful to make sure he had no more military ties before he started critisizing the govt.

Ay!...there's the rub...he shoulda read the fine print. I don't think he's got a case. You lose some freedom of speech when in the military. It's in the contract. Read a book called Chasing Ghosts by a guy who was in the military and he had to be REALLY careful to make sure he had no more military ties before he started critisizing the govt.


True. But at least he won't have to worry about being called back up.

Wouldn't they have to call him up again in order to change his discharge status?

He already paid his dues, shouldn't he be allowed his freedom of speech without retribution?

Wouldn't they have to call him up again in order to change his discharge status?

He already paid his dues, shouldn't he be allowed his freedom of speech without retribution?

I don't think so, his service continues. It seems to me like a civilian taking an unpaid leave of absence and then using that time to demonstrate against the company. They would then be fired in all probability and that is what I see happening here. They didn't sneak up on him or anything, he was notified he was in violation and he told them to get stuffed. They then fired him.

Wouldn't they have to call him up again in order to change his discharge status?

He already paid his dues, shouldn't he be allowed his freedom of speech without retribution?

He doesn't have an Honorable Discharge. His Character of Service at the time of his DD-214 (transfer to reserve) was honorable, but he in no way, shape, or form has an Honorable Discharge. Personal Responsibility rings again.

Wouldn't they have to call him up again in order to change his discharge status?

He already paid his dues, shouldn't he be allowed his freedom of speech without retribution?

He hasn't paid is dues. Every enlistment contract has a portion of time active duty and inactive reserve. When I enlisted in 1985, I signed a contract for eight years, six active and two inactive reserves. If a member of the reserves, inactive or active sends an email to an officer telling them to **** themselves, they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Since he did it in a rather public manner, he will lose this one. That is how the discharge changes. I would say that he is pretty stupid to do all this without checking first, even more so after he was warned.

If you're in IRR you're not really a civilian yet. The guy is hosed.

He hasn't paid is dues. Every enlistment contract has a portion of time active duty and inactive reserve. When I enlisted in 1985, I signed a contract for eight years, six active and two inactive reserves. If a member of the reserves, inactive or active sends an email to an officer telling them to **** themselves, they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Since he did it in a rather public manner, he will lose this one. That is how the discharge changes. I would say that he is pretty stupid to do all this without checking first, even more so after he was warned.

His dropping the F-bomb wasn't too bright. But I can understand his bitterness.

He hasn't paid is dues. Every enlistment contract has a portion of time active duty and inactive reserve. When I enlisted in 1985, I signed a contract for eight years, six active and two inactive reserves. If a member of the reserves, inactive or active sends an email to an officer telling them to **** themselves, they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Since he did it in a rather public manner, he will lose this one. That is how the discharge changes. I would say that he is pretty stupid to do all this without checking first, even more so after he was warned.

that is 100% correct. All service members sign an initial 8 year contract. Even if they only serve 2-3 on active duty they are still on records for 8 years. Retirees can be held till the 30 year mark. If he had less than 8 active years of service he still belonged to them.

Since he is in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR), he is close enough to being a civilian in my mind. I think they need to send a message, but this is crazy. Didn't he remove all insignia from his uniform? So he violated a regulation and some customs and courtesies. I don't think this is worthy of changing his discharge.

...he still belonged to them.

Hmm... Can anyone really own someone? I thought Lincoln abolished slavery?

Hell, we still have a difficult time with the right to own property. I think the Native Americans had that one correct.

But I digress... This seems more complex.

Bah! This guy knows exactly what he is doing. He knew this would happen--- and since it is "for his cause" he welcomes it and the publicity it brings. There is nothing stupid about his actions, other than that he is just "playing stupid."

He hasn't paid is dues. Every enlistment contract has a portion of time active duty and inactive reserve. When I enlisted in 1985, I signed a contract for eight years, six active and two inactive reserves. If a member of the reserves, inactive or active sends an email to an officer telling them to **** themselves, they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Since he did it in a rather public manner, he will lose this one. That is how the discharge changes. I would say that he is pretty stupid to do all this without checking first, even more so after he was warned.

Since he is in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR), he is close enough to being a civilian in my mind. I think they need to send a message, but this is crazy. Didn't he remove all insignia from his uniform? So he violated a regulation and some customs and courtesies. I don't think this is worthy of changing his discharge.

He was still under contract with the military. There is no such thing as close, he either is or isn't under their jurisdiction. He is. The regulations he violated are the military law that he is subject to, so he pays the price. He could be called back into active duty and be court marshalled or face non-judicial punishment for his actions, either of which would likely result in a bad conduct discharge. An "other than honorable" discharge is not as severe a punishment. He should take it and shut up.

BTW, regulations, customs, and courtesies are the foundation of the military. It is a big deal.

An "other than honorable" discharge is not as severe a punishment. He should take it and shut up.

I'm thinking that is his end goal. He wants out, completely, and an OTHD achieves that goal. He probably doesn't care about the bennies and we all know how great the VA is....

I'm thinking that is his end goal. He wants out, completely, and an OTHD achieves that goal. He probably doesn't care about the bennies and we all know how great the VA is....

The VA had some problems in some areas but don't paint the entire effort that way. It serves many vets pretty well and does a lot of good.

Just curious, have any of the right-wingers here fought in Iraq?

The VA had some problems in some areas but don't paint the entire effort that way. It serves many vets pretty well and does a lot of good.


I saw firsthand the good the VA did my stepfather.... (I literally almost followed the one doc out to the parking lot to help him be admitted as a paraplegic) but I'm sure there is some good being done, somewhere, some of the time for some of the vets.

Just curious, have any of the right-wingers here fought in Iraq?
Are there any right-wingers here???

Just curious, have any of the right-wingers here fought in Iraq?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Bigbill had two or three tours.

Hey Bill, did I ever thank you for your sacrifice?

Well, THANKS!!!

*tear rolls down cheek*

Sincerely,

Dan

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Bigbill had two or three tours.

Hey Bill, did I ever thank you for your sacrifice?

Well, THANKS!!!

*tear rolls down cheek*

Sincerely,

Dan


You are welcome. I was part of OEF and OIF including shock and awe. I am currently suffering in Italy until October. Heading out on a ride a little later today. I am thinking about punching out in three years and starting a career as a crossing guard. I like uniforms.

I am thinking about punching out in three years and starting a career as a crossing guard. I like uniforms.

Bill let me be the first to say that you would make one hell of a crossing guard. Follow your dream.