http://www.thedenverchannel.com/politics/13433662/detail.html

CAPITOL HILL -- After promising sunshine, clouds appear to be moving in as House Democrats draw up next year's spending plans under orders from the top to keep pet projects out until the last minute.

Democrats are sidestepping rules approved their first day in power in January to clearly identify "earmarks." That's a word used to define lawmakers' requests for specific projects and contracts for their states.

Democrats are following an order by the House Appropriations Committee chairman to keep the bills free of such earmarks until it's too late for critics to effectively challenge them.

Wisconsin Congressman David Obey said the requests for dams, community grants and research contracts won't be added until fall when House and Senate negotiators assemble final bills. He said it's because there were too many to go through.

Such earmarks usually total billions of dollars.

Remember when MikeBiker made the same complaints against the Republicans?

Me neither.

That said, yeah, the I'm disgusted with the Democratic party.

But aren't these the folks who were going to bring honesty, fairplay and open government back to the country? Replacing all those unethical and deceptive Neocons? Aren't they?

No, that was your crew. Nice job they've done.
BTW, both you and MikeBiker have ZERO credibility.

I didn't see a word from either of you when w.hores like Ted Stevens filled the budget with pork.

It's disgusting. It's also duplicitous, and I don't believe I've ever used the word duplicitous before. I can only hope Speaker Pelosi will remind everyone of the rules they approved, and they will do the right thing.

No, that was your crew. Nice job they've done.
BTW, both you and MikeBiker have ZERO credibility.

I didn't see a word from either of you when w.hores like Ted Stevens filled the budget with pork.

Son, it weren't yerself that sounded the alarm this time around neiter, was it? Ain't yer guys 'sposed to be better? What happened? :)

I'm entirely disgusted with the Democrats right now. They've hit rock bottom. However, unlike the Republicans, they haven't started digging yet.

I'm entirely disgusted with the Democrats right now. They've hit rock bottom. However, unlike the Republicans, they haven't started digging yet.

Oh they're diggiin. Pigs is pigs son, no matter what they call themselves.

Even when they call themselves Snakebit.

Even when they call themselves Snakebit.

Awwww, and we were just reaching some sort of raport too. Oh well. :)

Indeed. Just making sure you know where you stand. :p

vote against your incumbents in the primaries

both sides

even if we don't vote thhem out we let them know they are teh suxxors

and write some friggin letters

we're quite aware both sides are cheating scoundrels

there is just a higher chance the dems may cheat for us working folk once in awhile

Oh they're diggiin. Pigs is pigs son, no matter what they call themselves.

Ah yes, the old "they do it too" defense. I love it when you guys trot this one out. And here I thought you were the guy who liked to make sure you had all the facts in front of you before making judgement, and in this case, all the facts are unfortunately not in. If the democrats are doing this, shame on them for skirting their own rules that they put into place, but alas, we really won't know if they are "doing" this until the fall when allegedly, the earmarks are to be dropped in at the last minute.

So right now, there is a lot of crying foul over something that hasn't happened yet. Jumping the gun aren't we? And as others have pointed out, it's funny how you weren't screaming about this when your guys were doing it, changing rules, cutting debate, shutting down votes early, you know, things totally against the rules, in order to forward their agenda.

And once again, if the dems do this, as the article suggests, then they ought to be ashamed of themselves, and they should be called out on it. But let's let them screw up first. Right now, it's rumor and innuendo as to what may or may not happen. Right?

It's disgusting. It's also duplicitous, and I don't believe I've ever used the word duplicitous before. I can only hope Speaker Pelosi will remind everyone of the rules they approved, and they will do the right thing.

I keep hoping the next time I let my dogs out in they yard they will shiat out stacks of solid gold too.

we're quite aware both sides are cheating scoundrels

there is just a higher chance the dems may cheat for us working folk once in awhile

RIGHT! :)

No, that was your crew. Nice job they've done.
BTW, both you and MikeBiker have ZERO credibility.

I didn't see a word from either of you when w.hores like Ted Stevens filled the budget with pork.This is the first time that I have been associated with Snake in a thread. Start one thread that shows that the Democrats politicians are a bad as the Republicans and suddenly I am seen as having no credibility. I guess it shows that some people attack the bearer of the message rather than addressing the content of the message.

This is complete and utter BS. First they fail to stand up to Bush, now this. What's the point anymore?

I keep hoping the next time I let my dogs out in they yard they will shiat out stacks of solid gold too.

We're both dreamers, aren't we?

This is the first time that I have been associated with Snake in a thread. Start one thread that shows that the Democrats politicians are a bad as the Republicans and suddenly I am seen as having no credibility. I guess it shows that some people attack the bearer of the message rather than addressing the content of the message.

more with your silence over 6 years of graft far worse than this. Pure partisanship like that will get ya lumped with some unsavory characters.

also until we see an earmark that personally benefits a member (like Hastert's freeway project) or just straight up bribe taking (a la Cunningham) the Dems still have a ways to fall to be 'as bad' as you say

more with your silence over 6 years of graft far worse than this. Pure partisanship like that will get ya lumped with some unsavory characters.

also until we see an earmark that personally benefits a member (like Hastert's freeway project) or just straight up bribe taking (a la Cunningham) the Dems still have a ways to fall to be 'as bad' as you say

Wait just a cotton pickin' minute. Your guys have been back in control for a pretty short time and have demonstrated a pretty high capacity for all the stuff you say you don't like about government. I think your problem is that you set such high standards that you set yourself up for disappointment when they're corrupted by the atmosphere of power and money they find themselves in when they get to Washington. You say you agree and then start defining degrees to make yourself feel good. Just pick out an overall policy you can live with, vote for IT and hope the bastids will stay with the major themes they outlined when you voted. Don't expect saints or miracles from mere human beings.

I expect comments like "unsavory characters" from you but I am surprised MB is offended to be in my company. Ah well, you never can tell. :)

By the way, your guys are drifting further from your delusions than my guys ever did from mine.

This is the first time that I have been associated with Snake in a thread. Start one thread that shows that the Democrats politicians are a bad as the Republicans and suddenly I am seen as having no credibility. I guess it shows that some people attack the bearer of the message rather than addressing the content of the message.

Well, sorry for lumping you in with Snake. You're right, that spot is reserved for LieStream.

Well, sorry for lumping you in with Snake. You're right, that spot is reserved for LieStream.

It's live Steam or maybe Lie Detector Steam and that's high company indeed. I'll drink ti that. :wink:

It's live Steam or maybe Lie Detector Steam and that's high company indeed. I'll drink ti that. :wink:

I'm sure you will. Kool-Aid for both of you. :D

If I understand this thread correctly we shouldn't vote the Democrats or Republicans? We should not vote for incumberants? Be completely surprised that politicians are corrupt? Hold the Democrats responsible for not making change quick enough? Reduce or eliminate all past-wrongs the Republican have done since the Democrats 'seem' to be doing a little bit of it now?

Were does this leave us....giving up all hope for a better tomorrow? I am probably wrong but it makes feel better to believe that our democratic goverment is better than most and has the chance to improve. No matter what happens in the future no one can top all of the wrongs the NeoCon's and Bush/Cheney have done, not even the Democrats.

If I understand this thread correctly we shouldn't vote the Democrats or Republicans? We should not vote for incumberants? Be completely surprised that politicians are corrupt? Hold the Democrats responsible for not making change quick enough? Reduce or eliminate all past-wrongs the Republican have done since the Democrats 'seem' to be doing a little bit of it now?

Were does this leave us....giving up all hope for a better tomorrow? I am probably wrong but it makes feel better to believe that our democratic goverment is better than most and has the chance to improve. No matter what happens in the future no one can top all of the wrongs the NeoCon's and Bush/Cheney have done, not even the Democrats.

A true believer in the "other side is wronger!"

This of course has nothing to do with Bush/Cheney and has nothing to do with what can and cannot be done to change things. This is simple...the Democrats ran in part to remove the pork, to end the earmarks, to stop wasting the people's money on pet projects and bridges to no where...they were going to implement transparency in government again. And since they have the majority to do all of those things...the only people to blame when they lie cheat and steal from us...is them.

If you want a better tomorrow, don't vote for anyone you previously voted for who does the opposite of what they say they would do.

A true believer in the "other side is wronger!"

This of course has nothing to do with Bush/Cheney and has nothing to do with what can and cannot be done to change things. This is simple...the Democrats ran in part to remove the pork, to end the earmarks, to stop wasting the people's money on pet projects and bridges to no where...they were going to implement transparency in government again. And since they have the majority to do all of those things...the only people to blame when they lie cheat and steal from us...is them.
So you basically gave them a time limit of six months (January to June) to do everything and when they did not do it all, they are worse than the Republicans?

That's a stretch.

Maybe you were expecting the Democrats to be perfect?

That's a stretch.

Maybe you wanted the Democrats to come up with some sort of new math to over-ride the President's veto in the Senate?

That's a stretch.

Maybe you wanted the Democrats to run over the top of the Republicans, like the Republicans did to the Democrats in the 90's?

That's still a possiblity, but so far they are trying to work togather. When they tried to meet with the Republicans they of course they got labeled 'wimps'.

Or maybe you have unrealistic expectations.

Unfortunately, it's really a simple question of which one is worse for the country and not which one will save us. Think you can do better? Run for congress.

If you want a better tomorrow, don't vote for anyone you previously voted for who does the opposite of what they say they would do.

What they are being chastised for here is something that they haven't even done yet. There are just reports that they "might" do this, throw in the earmark stuff at the last second. So indeed, we don't know if they are going to do this or not, we'll have to wait until the fall to find out for sure right?

So you basically gave them a time limit of six months (January to June) to do everything and when they did not do it all, they are worse than the Republicans?

That's a stretch.

Maybe you were expecting the Democrats to be perfect?

That's a stretch.

Maybe you wanted the Democrats to come up with some sort of new math to over-ride the President's veto in the Senate?

That's a stretch.

Maybe you wanted the Democrats to run over the top of the Republicans, like the Republicans did to the Democrats in the 90's?

That's still a possiblity, but so far they are trying to work togather. When that happen, of course they got labeled 'wimps'.

Or maybe you have unrealistic expectations.

Unfortunately, it's really a simple question of which one is worse for the country and not which one will save us. Think you can do better? Run for congress.

Why is there a time limit on credability? They ran on one stance and now they are going to try to get away with doing the exact opposite. There is no time limit...and as a majority THEY SET THE RULES OF CONGRESS. They adopted one set in their first few days in office (quickly moving that democratic process)...and now...they seem ready to just screw us. Say one thing do another...sounds oddly familliar doesn't it.

But I would like to know what you think this has to do with Bush, the Republicans, time, etc. These sound like lame excuses to me. If they want clean transparent government...they can have, they can set the rules of the House and Senate in such a way to make it impossible to do these things, but now that they claim to have established that...they are ready to bring the pork. Shameful...there is no excuse for what they could do. Hopefully this news report will scare them into not moving ahead with their stupidity.

By apologizing for them...you make it possible for this to exist and continue. You allow the addict his next drink by not knocking it out of his hands by way of the democratic process and demanding better.

Technically, that is true. Still, it seems that David Obey has issued orders that don't seem ambiguous to me. If what he said is accurate, he is trying to game the system, which the Democrats specifically said they would not do. With this advance notice, it will be interesting to see what happens when the time comes. My hopes are not high, but call me an optimist. After all, I keep checking thatsmybush's yard for some of those gold bricks.

Technically, that is true. Still, it seems that David Obey has issued orders that don't seem ambiguous to me. If what he said is accurate, he is trying to game the system, which the Democrats specifically said they would not do. With this advance notice, it will be interesting to see what happens when the time comes. My hopes are not high, but call me an optimist. After all, I keep checking thatsmybush's yard for some of those gold bricks.

I would be willing to chastise them as well if they go back on what they said. I'm just waiting for the outcome, and Obey ain't the leader of the House either. He could be reigned in fairly easily I think.

By apologizing for them...you make it possible for this to exist and continue.

....In the same exact way the Bush apologists have enabled his brand of madness to continue.

All Obey said was that they weren't putting in any pork until later. He didn't say it wouldn't be identified or that there wouldn't be an opportunity to dump it. The article implied they would try and sneak it through but that's not what Obey said (seems like a pretty slanted piece of opinion that doesn't belong in a news article). Let's wait with the tar and feathers until we see what happens. Gee, we moan about something that hasn't happened yet while there's no mention of what has happened. What might that be, you say? Why, there's no pork in there, yet.

Lets take your repsonse apart:

Why is there a time limit on credability? You are the one giving a deadline of today. Not me.They ran on one stance and now they are going to try to get away with doing the exact opposite. They are not doing the exact opposite. That's a gross over-statement. There is no time limit...and as a majority THEY SET THE RULES OF CONGRESS. You still have not addressed over-riding the President's VETO. They have created bills which they cannot get the GOP to agree with so where's the blame for the GOP? Apparently you feel the GOP is excused from holding up what the public wants? They adopted one set in their first few days in office (quickly moving that democratic process)...and now...they seem ready to just screw us. That's your opinion. What do you mean screw us. What exactly do you think they are going to do you?Say one thing do another...sounds oddly familliar doesn't it. That's another over-simplification. Also if it's true, it's the same as it has always been, but you think the Democrats are going to change it over-night?[COLOR]
But I would like to know what you think this has to do with Bush, the Republicans, time, etc. These sound like lame excuses to me. [COLOR="red"]I only used the Bush/GOP reference to give a comparision on how bad the Democrats have to be before they even be called the WORST ever.If they want clean transparent government...they can have, they can set the rules of the House and Senate in such a way to make it impossible to do these things, In what reality do think this transparency can be done. Heck McCain/Fingold could not even pass campaign finance reform when the Republicans were in control of the Executive and Legislature Branches. But now with one seat in Congress, you expect Democrats to give the US Goverment transparency?but now that they claim to have established that...they are ready to bring the pork. Shameful...there is no excuse for what they could do. Hopefully this news report will scare them into not moving ahead with their stupidity. I am not sure you should be calling anyone stupid.
By apologizing for them...you make it possible for this to exist and continue. You allow the addict his next drink by not knocking it out of his hands by way of the democratic process and demanding better. I am not apologizing for them but trying to get you to see that your stance on politics is not realistic. As a historian, when was the last time you say a political party accomplish all that you asked in six months. I'll answer it for you.....never. What do you want? The Republicans back in power? Who do you think will do the best job?

....In the same exact way the Bush apologists have enabled his brand of madness to continue.

You should differentiate between apologies and applause. That appologist lable is a convenient way to marginalize anyone who agrees with the overall actions of this adminstration. There can be no rational discussion of possible mistakes without accepting that Bush is himself, THE mistake. I don't agree with that. I would rather some things were different but am ok with the overall concept of fighting ME terrorism in the ME and I consider removing Saddam a continuation of a fight that had begun 12 years prior to this fight. I also accept the doctrine often quoted here of you broke it you own it. I understand that to mean we have a responsibility to the people of Iraq to keep the new power there from being the same as the old power and that the responsibility is not short term.

I have not seen the various actions like the Patriot act and domestic spying to be as presented here. I think they have been far less intrusive and within Constitutional boundaries or quickly brought to within those boundaries. Overall, I think George will be judged pretty well by history long after the dust settles on the political hoopla that we have seen for both of his terms.

Your exception is noted. :)

Lets take your repsonse apart:

I am not apologizing for them but trying to get you to see that your stance on politics is not realistic. As a historian, when was the last time you say a political party accomplish all that you asked in six months. I'll answer it for you.....never. What do you want? The Republicans back in power? Who do you think will do the best job?

Love the color...hate the extrapolations.

I am talking about this singular issue...nothing more nothing less. As the majority, they set the rules about Bills coming to the floor of congress and what they can and cannot have. This has nothing to do with the GOP and cannot be vetoed by the president. You are melding different topics...that is a danger. The Dems are being dishonest...they set rules, ran on setting such rules and now are backsliding on their promise. It is as simple as that. Hence...they can lose their credibility in 6 months...and they can prove that they don't care about accomplishing what they said they would in 6 months.

I call anyone that acts stupidly...stupid...and make no apologies for it.

I want the American people back in power...think about it.

Obey is not the leader but he isn't the type to be reigned in easily, either. He's been my congressman as long as he's been in congress, and that's a long time (37 years). He's proud to carry the torch of Bill Proxmire (remember the Golden Fleece awards?). He's a fiscal conservative.

I don't think we'll see a lot of shenanigans out of Obey. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now, and wait and see what is done in the fall.

Love the color...hate the extrapolations.

I am talking about this singular issue...nothing more nothing less. As the majority, they set the rules about Bills coming to the floor of congress and what they can and cannot have. This has nothing to do with the GOP and cannot be vetoed by the president. You are melding different topics...that is a danger. The Dems are being dishonest...they set rules, ran on setting such rules and now are backsliding on their promise. It is as simple as that. Hence...they can lose their credibility in 6 months...and they can prove that they don't care about accomplishing what they said they would in 6 months.

I call anyone that acts stupidly...stupid...and make no apologies for it.

I want the American people back in power...think about it.
The American people are in power...think about it. How are the Democrats being dishonest? They have passed and proposed bills just like they stated. They have not given up on ending the war. What is it that you want from the Democrats other than magic show and a pony ride? You are wasting my time. I am ending this thread since you cannot add to the conversation other than being a cry baby.

You should differentiate between apologies and applause. That appologist lable is a convenient way to marginalize anyone who agrees with the overall actions of this adminstration. There can be no rational discussion of possible mistakes without accepting that Bush is himself, THE mistake. I don't agree with that. I would rather some things were different but am ok with the overall concept of fighting ME terrorism in the ME and I consider removing Saddam a continuation of a fight that had begun 12 years prior to this fight. I also accept the doctrine often quoted here of you broke it you own it. I understand that to mean we have a responsibility to the people of Iraq to keep the new power there from being the same as the old power and that the responsibility is not short term.

I have not seen the various actions like the Patriot act and domestic spying to be as presented here. I think they have been far less intrusive and within Constitutional boundaries or quickly brought to within those boundaries. Overall, I think George will be judged pretty well by history long after the dust settles on the political hoopla that we have seen for both of his terms.

Your exception is noted. :)
When the dust settles on all of the hoopla the American people (including Republicans) are going to throw up. Bush Jr. will go down in history a huge American mistake.

The American people are in power...think about it. How are the Democrats being dishonest? They have passed and proposed bills just like they stated. They have not given up on ending the war. What is it that you want from the Democrats other than magic show and a pony ride? You are wasting my time. I am ending this thread since you cannot add to the conversation other than being a cry baby.

You are free to leave at anytime...don't feel compelled to reply. In my estimation, I have added all that needed to be said. You have not refuted any of my previous post. It must be difficult to be saddled with a Murtha on your back...it can make people all kinds of irritable.

As for crying...that is the last thing I am doing. I have no score in this...no team to fight for...sounds like crying is what you have just done. Am I being too hard on you? Are you frightened of the obvious...that your elected representatives work for banks lobbies, lawyer lobbies, big dollar lobbies and could care less about you?

Now get out there and do something productive...cause god knows that posting on an internet forum is by definition a waste of time...that is why most of us do it. But you must be more important than us...hence the indignation at being called out.

You are free to leave at anytime...don't feel compelled to reply. In my estimation, I have added all that needed to be said. You have not refuted any of my previous post. It must be difficult to be saddled with a Murtha on your back...it can make people all kinds of irritable.

As for crying...that is the last thing I am doing. I have no score in this...no team to fight for...sounds like crying is what you have just done. Am I being too hard on you? Are you frightened of the obvious...that your elected representatives work for banks lobbies, lawyer lobbies, big dollar lobbies and could care less about you?

Now get out there and do something productive...cause god knows that posting on an internet forum is by definition a waste of time...that is why most of us do it. But you must be more important than us...hence the indignation at being called out.




/Thread over, man. Thead OVER!

This thread resembles a conversation between the blind and the deaf.

/Agree. Thread is over.

/Thread over, man. Thead OVER!

I know I know...it was ended...by...by...who ended it again?

Oh, and this...from ABC...

The Democrats in Congress have lost much of the leadership edge they carried out of the 2006 midterm election, with the lack of progress in Iraq being the leading cause. Their only solace: President Bush and the Republicans aren't doing any better.
Six weeks ago the Democrats held a 24-point lead over Bush as the stronger leadership force in Washington; today that's collapsed to a dead heat. The Democrats' overall job approval rating likewise has dropped, from a 54 percent majority to 44 percent now -- with the decline occurring almost exclusively among strong opponents of the Iraq War.


Hmmmm...damnable folks expecting results. Sit down shut up...get in the back seat...you WON the election now we don't want to hear from you.:rolleyes:

This thread resembles a conversation between the blind and the deaf.

/Agree. Thread is over.

PROVE IT...here is a hint use your handy dandy PacMan chart...it can't miss.

evil turds

vs

lame turds

folks it's why we need turnover.

keep voting these SOBs out of office until we bend them to OUR will. Campaign finance reform, transparency.
if you see your Congressperson doing some BS send them an E. Call them on it and let them know they no longer have your support.

I got a nice little survey (of course with a request for a donation) from the DNC. needless to say they didn't receive any $$ and they got a little note as well.

PROVE IT...here is a hint use your handy dandy PacMan chart...it can't miss.

Source!?