I'm about to buy a new bike and from looking around the net I've narrowed it down to the three frames listed above (and Colnago active) with the kg 461 beeing my first choice based on looks and availability from my lbs (the colnago and pinarello I have to buy online). Now I'm curious about how reliable a carbon frame, especially such a cheap carbon frame (well, at least compared to other carbon frames its cheap). People always say that carbon frames brake more easily, but how easily? Also I'm wondering if the point of a carbon frame is missed if I fit it with handlebars, stem and seatpost in other material?

If anyone has tried the other frames I mention above I'll be glad to hear your opinion. There aren't that many reviews of these frames on this site.

cheers

//Anders

I'm about to buy a new bike and from looking around the net I've narrowed it down to the three frames listed above (and Colnago active) with the kg 461 beeing my first choice based on looks and availability from my lbs (the colnago and pinarello I have to buy online). Now I'm curious about how reliable a carbon frame, especially such a cheap carbon frame (well, at least compared to other carbon frames its cheap). People always say that carbon frames brake more easily, but how easily? Also I'm wondering if the point of a carbon frame is missed if I fit it with handlebars, stem and seatpost in other material?

If anyone has tried the other frames I mention above I'll be glad to hear your opinion. There aren't that many reviews of these frames on this site.

cheers

//Anders

I wouldn't worry about the KG461 holding up in crashes. LOOK tends to be on the conservative side as far as durability is concerned; they have a lot of experience building for grassroots racers who can't replace their frames after each and every accident. And accidents do happen. LOOK frames are not the lightest on the market, but I don't mind the additional safety in the design. My KG361 has held up well over several races and travels, and heck even my lightweight Cyfac NERV has held up extremely well over crappy roads and racing and traveling. These frames are not designed to be the lightest out there, and they sure are durable.

I have 3 Carbon LOOK frames. One is 17 years old, the second is 14 years old, and my newest is 2 years old. I ride all three every week. Don't worry about them holding up.....

Thanks mates!

I have broken a pinarello prince (in one year, no crashes). The paint is falling off my Pinarello prince SL. I'm considering a Look 486 for the Durability.

I've been riding my 486 for about 4 months now - this frame is rock solid! It looks and feels beefy compared to other bikes I've ridden. Despite the relatively heavier frame weight, the whole bike built still weighs only 16.6 pounds (w/o pedals) - I'll take that any day along with the solidness and durability I get with this frame.

What is your setup on the 486 ? 16.6 lbs is pretty reasonable.

I've raced a lot of bikes ovr the years but never raced a look. I'm a bit concerned what will happen with the 486 now Look are bringing out a 950 gram 585.

Do you have any pics of your bike ?

No pics yet (sorry). The original setup was Dura Ace 7800 drivetrain/brakes, Ksyrium SL wheelset w/ Continental Grand Prix 3000 tires, TTT Less bar/stem, Thomson Elite seatpost, Fizik Arione saddle. Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals brought it up to 17.25 lbs. Just recently I turned it into a dedicated time trial bike by replacing the bars/stem with ITM Dual integrated aerobars and will be using a Zipp 404 wheelset during races. That makes it a tad heavier - but it's performed very well for me so far!

I don't know what will happen to the 486 next year, but the 585 seems to be kind of a hybrid between the 481 SL and the 486 - round, lugged tubes like the former but progressive sloping geometry like the latter. At any rate, it strikes me as more of an all-around road bike that will excel at climbing, while the 486 is more of a flatlander road bike (just ask Thor Hushvold!) that is also well suited for TT duty.

Moreau is still rideing his 486 and it seems so is the rest of Credit Agricole - Also, I think RAGT are rideing the KX-Light. We'll see tomorrow if he's still riding the 486 in the big hills.

I guess if I lighten up some of the components I can get the bike quite light. Don't want to go crazy, light stuff breaks with a lot of use.

Know of any 486 deals out there ? I got the exel catalogue today.

I saw Moreau riding a black bike on the first mountain stage - not a 486 - turns out to be a 585 prototype. Apparently he is riding the 585 for the mountain stages and the 486 in the other road stages (all CA riders are using the 396 for time trials). RAGT, on the other hand, are riding the KX Light as road bikes and the 486 as time trial bikes.

Moreau was the only CA rider with a 486 last year, so he could be the guinea pig for the 585.

There were some good deals on '03 model of the 486 earlier this year, but I suspect those are mostly gone now. I doubt you'll find any deals on the '04 model until we get closer to the 585 rollout.

If a feather-weight bike is what you're after, other frames are probably better starting points (Giant TCR, Canondale six13, Look 585, etc.). Weight is only one factor to consider, however, in deciding the best frame for the intended use (other factors being lateral stiffness, comfort, aerodynamics, geometry, fit, etc). The 486 does have a win in the TdF this year!

RAGT is also riding a white version of the 481SL. They switch between the KX and the 481 often. If you look at their team pictures for the year, they seem to flux back and forth a bunch. Team Healthnet did the same thing a few years back when they were sponsored by Look.

Got a good look at Moreau's bike in today's stage - looks like the 585. I thought it had more slope than that ?

What size is your 486 ?

I read the July issue of Bicycling. They give the weights of the top carbon bikes they tested. Your bike at 16.6 lbs is very similar to the lightweights tested. The components on the test bikes were lighter. Is your bike weight wrong ?

The 481SL was the lightest but they made a comment about looks being heavy and relating that to the 481 - strange

I'll be buying the bike without viewing or riding - that's why I have the questions. I have light bikes, the look will be a work horse.

Moreau I think is a bigger guy - the slope of the 486 top tube slope progressively decreases as the frame sizes increases - if fact the two largest frame sizes have no slope at all. My frame is a M (= 53 cm virtual seat tube length).

You can come up with some wildly off weights if you calculate the weight of a bike based on the sum of all the published values. We put my bike on the scale at the shop when we built it, so unless their scale is wrong (doubtful) you gotta go with it. Again, I did not build this beast looking to create a flyweight (I've got a C'dale for that) - I wanted a sturdy, comfortable, high performance bike that would last me a long time. Before I converted it to a TT bike, I did quite a bit of hill workouts and never felt like it was holding me back (and of course it proved to be very swift and stable on the descents). If you're really concerned about its weight, you may not ever be able to get it out of your head and, thus, will never be satisfied. In that case a lighter frame might be best for you.