OK, the Cervelo R3 is a great bike and I have nothing but praise for it, however, I am getting tired of the comments about how it is comfortable because it won Paris-Roubaix. In particular, at Paris-Roubaix, I believe that it was not a stock R3, but one with 41 cm chainstays, as opposed to the 40 cm chainstays of the stock bike. The Paris-Roubaix bike was also fitted with 27mm tubulars (at least in 2006), which will make any bike ride much more smoothly (and I don't even know if 27mm tires will have enough clearance on the stock R3). Also, I don't believe that you can associate comfort with Paris-Roubaix cobbles. I live in Paris, and my Ritchey soaks up most of the cobbles like butter so I don't even feel them, but on larger spaced out cobbles, the rear wheel is forced to bounce around due to the spaces between cobbles, so there is not too much comfort possible there. These cobbles have been smoothed out by millions of cars, so these do not even approach the extreme Paris-Roubaix cobbles which are not just larger and more spaced out, but rougher due to almost zero vehicular traffic to smooth them out.

Anyway, If I ever enough nerve to enter the 2008 Paris-Roubaix cyclosportive, then I will give a first hand report on bike comfort, especially if I actually buy the R3 by then. This story gives a good indication of what the cobbles are really like: http://www.flammerouge.je/content/6_cyclos/events/roubaix.htm

-ilan

your point is?

Comfortable bikes are for pussies.

I have an R3, I did not buy it for comfort, but I am not disappointed in that regard.

I seriously doubt you could fit 27 or 28mm tyres on the stock frame, although I have had no problem with 25's. The brake clearance might be another issue.

What has impressed me the most about the R3 is it's responsiveness and it's handling.

Ilan, why would you buy the R3 if you are tired of hearing about? if you are a cervelo hater I would recommend to get something different, maybe something you like.
for those of us that have the R3, I think we continue to be amazed by the quality ride of this bike. good luck

Ilan, why would you buy the R3 if you are tired of hearing about? if you are a cervelo hater I would recommend to get something different, maybe something you like.
for those of us that have the R3, I think we continue to be amazed by the quality ride of this bike. good luck


I don't hate Cervelo, in fact, I think the company is great and they have responded to my e-mails promptly with very informative answers. I also like the bicycle. However, I believe that it is important to be accurate. My original statement about the R3 has been confirmed by Fabian Cancellara on the Cervelo website. In the video in which he test bikes for Paris-Roubaix (from what I can tell, it is at Wallers-Arenberg), he says that the stock R3 handles the cobbles like a Smart (that is, the shortest and harshest riding car around), and that the R3 with longer seat stays handles the cobbles like a Mercedes 500 SL.

I will finally test ride the R3 next week, and if it fits me well and I like the ride then I will probably buy it.

-ilan

cool, let us know how it does

I've been lookn at the R3 too. Might get the R3, Soloist carbon or a bmc slco1.

Cervelo site says- Strong and ideal for bad conditions:
- Victory in the world's toughest race, Paris-Roubaix
- Lightest frame ridden by the heaviest rider in that race
- Tire clearance for 27mm special Vittoria tires

This is info regarding the stock R3. It says nothing about the 27mm tires will only fit a special made R3. It is info listed under the stock R3 team. Cervelo does not make custom frames because they are a smaller company and it costs way too much money to make a new carbon mold just for one race out of the year.

From cyclingnews- But what even CSC don't get from Cervelo is custom frames. "The riders all ride stock bikes," said White. "We told Riis 'we can't do custom bikes'," right at the beginning of the company's relationship with the team. "He realized the didn't need custom bikes," said White. "The way we make bikes it's pretty much impossible."

From CSC site- And with all Team CSC riders using stock frames and our dealers finding that they can fit a much wider range of customers properly and comfortable on Cervélo frames than on many other frame, it is clear that it simply works.

I don't hate Cervelo, in fact, I think the company is great and they have responded to my e-mails promptly with very informative answers. I also like the bicycle. However, I believe that it is important to be accurate. My original statement about the R3 has been confirmed by Fabian Cancellara on the Cervelo website. In the video in which he test bikes for Paris-Roubaix (from what I can tell, it is at Wallers-Arenberg), he says that the stock R3 handles the cobbles like a Smart (that is, the shortest and harshest riding car around), and that the R3 with longer seat stays handles the cobbles like a Mercedes 500 SL.

I will finally test ride the R3 next week, and if it fits me well and I like the ride then I will probably buy it.

-ilan

I did end up buying a Cervelo R3 after a 15 minute test ride. To me, the most important thing is how a bike handles on descents, and whether it has totally neutral steering. Well, as soon as I clipped in, I took my hands off the bars no problem. Then I went up this hill just so I could go down at about 60kph, mostly no hands (hands just off the drops) and hitting the bars to feel how quickly they would go back to center. After that, I managed to find some fairly rough roads, which it handled OK, though not as well as my Ritchey road bike. Since there was nothing wrong with it and a lot right, I bought it.

I find that the bike feels much better as it goes faster, especially at over 40kph. For this reason, I can't say it is a "great climber" because it feels a little vague and twitchy going slow, at least compared ot my previous bike. Anyway, I don't believe in the concept of "great climber", as this part of cycling seems more about power to weight ratio than bike handling. However, my bike+rider weight did go down about 2.5kg when I got the bike, and I don't think my body could have ever lost that much weight without losing a lot of power, since I'm quite close to my optimum weight (I wouldn't have felt I deserved this light a bike otherwise).

The descents are great, the other day was the first time I ever used my rear brake on a turn and skidded the rear wheel a little, it didn't bother me at all, even though there were cars around, total confidence...

Yesterday, I rode it on some cobbles in Old Montreal, and it is definitely not as smooth as my Ritchey, which is probably due to its shorter chainstays. However, that is what I wanted, so I'm happy. In fact, the bike pretty much feels like riding my track bike on the road, which is exactly what I wanted. Unfortunately, the similarity with the track bike also means huge pedal/wheel overlap which makes riding in traffic a more exciting experience than I would like. The other thing that is a slight bother is that the tubes are very wide and my thigh is rubbing the rear brake cable, even after zip-tying it to the frame.

-ilan

Ilan
Great review of the bike. You should post one in the review area if not already. Thanks for your impressions.

Ilan
Great review of the bike. You should post one in the review area if not already. Thanks for your impressions.

Thanks, glad to help :) I'm waiting to post the review until I have ridden the bike more and have fully appreciated it (it's great to be able to do that), and I also have to post reviews of all the components! My only other thought right now is that, from what I've read, the Look 585 would probably have suited my riding better, e.g., probably handles better at the lower speeds I ride at and is more compliant, but my old bike very likely did that better than the Look, so I'm glad I chose something radically different. Anyway, as I was saying, I would probably have chosen the first bike that didn't do anything wrong (too bad for all those stupid French shops that refuse test rides).

-ilan

[QUOTE][/This is info regarding the stock R3. It says nothing about the 27mm tires will only fit a special made R3. It is info listed under the stock R3 team. Cervelo does not make custom frames because they are a smaller company and it costs way too much money to make a new carbon mold just for one race out of the year.

From cyclingnews- But what even CSC don't get from Cervelo is custom frames. "The riders all ride stock bikes," said White. "We told Riis 'we can't do custom bikes'," right at the beginning of the company's relationship with the team. "He realized the didn't need custom bikes," said White. "The way we make bikes it's pretty much impossible."
QUOTE]
Cervelo doesn't actually make anything. They farm their production out to shops in Taiwan. This is the reason they won't/can't do custom. Don't believe the marketing hype.

[QUOTE][/This is info regarding the stock R3. It says nothing about the 27mm tires will only fit a special made R3. It is info listed under the stock R3 team. Cervelo does not make custom frames because they are a smaller company and it costs way too much money to make a new carbon mold just for one race out of the year.

From cyclingnews- But what even CSC don't get from Cervelo is custom frames. "The riders all ride stock bikes," said White. "We told Riis 'we can't do custom bikes'," right at the beginning of the company's relationship with the team. "He realized the didn't need custom bikes," said White. "The way we make bikes it's pretty much impossible."
QUOTE]
Cervelo doesn't actually make anything. They farm their production out to shops in Taiwan. This is the reason they won't/can't do custom. Don't believe the marketing hype.

Take an architect for example. His portfolio is full of buildings "he built". Even though the architect didn't even drive one nail in a 2x4 or pick up one paint roller, he still gets the ultimate privilege of saying "I built that". People know an architect doesn't physically build a building but they give him credit for the build. Why is that? He is the one that came up with the design and had his nose in every process of the build. He did the footwork of finding roofers, carpenters, masons, etc. He oversees and has the ultimate say so on the whole build. So understanding the building process, I can see how Cervelo can say they build frames.

Not too many companies, bike or anything else for that matter, actually make their own products "in house" these days. Many well known bike companies out-source and it takes nothing away from the final quality or the years of hard work that it took to design each frame model. Don't think there is no control on Cervelo's part. They have a good growing business and I'm sure they are involved in more steps of command and control than you would think. It's not like Cervelo calls up some random Asian company and requests a few hundred frames and crosses their fingers until they arrive in Canada hoping they've turned out ok. I'm sure there are Cervelo managers doing frequent trips to the factory or they could even be living in Asia to over see production. This is normal for many companies to have their managers do.

Vroomen and White design the Cervelo frames (it's written on the chainstay of each frame) and have a factory (not in Canada as mentioned) to make a carbon mold for each model and frame size. Once the carbon molds are made, the frames can be produced from those molds one after another. This is a factory that works to produce frames for Cervelo. Not to be confused with a carbon frame company that makes and sells the same blank/unpainted frames to many different companies. You can't buy a blank Cervelo frame off of Ebay like you can with some other companies. So instead of paying Canadians to build the frames, Cervelo pays Asians. What is the difference? A body is a body and the pay as well as the ideas ultimately come from Cervelo.

The frame molds that Cervelo pays the factory in Asia to make for them are exclusive to Cervelo. I read somewhere that each new carbon frame mold costs something like half a million bucks. It's not like Cervelo can't tell it's factory in Asia to make another carbon mold so they can produce a handful of custom frames, but why would they? They are still a relatively small company. To have the factory create a new carbon frame mold to fit the needs of a few pros would cost too much for such small orders.

Ilan
Great review of the bike. You should post one in the review area if not already. Thanks for your impressions.


I just posted my review of the R3-SL, though I had problems with the 4000 character limit, I tend to ramble. I put the 2nd part of the review in the comments.

-ilan

OK, the Cervelo R3 is a great bike and I have nothing but praise for it, however, I am getting tired of the comments about how it is comfortable because it won Paris-Roubaix. In particular, at Paris-Roubaix, I believe that it was not a stock R3, but one with 41 cm chainstays, as opposed to the 40 cm chainstays of the stock bike. The Paris-Roubaix bike was also fitted with 27mm tubulars (at least in 2006), which will make any bike ride much more smoothly (and I don't even know if 27mm tires will have enough clearance on the stock R3). Also, I don't believe that you can associate comfort with Paris-Roubaix cobbles. I live in Paris, and my Ritchey soaks up most of the cobbles like butter so I don't even feel them, but on larger spaced out cobbles, the rear wheel is forced to bounce around due to the spaces between cobbles, so there is not too much comfort possible there. These cobbles have been smoothed out by millions of cars, so these do not even approach the extreme Paris-Roubaix cobbles which are not just larger and more spaced out, but rougher due to almost zero vehicular traffic to smooth them out.

Anyway, If I ever enough nerve to enter the 2008 Paris-Roubaix cyclosportive, then I will give a first hand report on bike comfort, especially if I actually buy the R3 by then. This story gives a good indication of what the cobbles are really like: http://www.flammerouge.je/content/6_cyclos/events/roubaix.htm

-ilan

Here is a description of this year's Paris-Roubaix winning R3: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/probikes/?id=ogrady_paris_roubaix
It confirms what I was saying, and that the front of the bike was longer as well.

However, after riding my new R3 this last month, it has become more comfortable over cobbles because I have been learning to pedal differently than I had been on my older bike.

-ilan