Would it be worth it? Who uses one? Powertap hub mated to a Mavic Reflex CD's?

I've seen people using PTs during races to collect data on the types of demands cx racing produces. Someone I talked to used his for a few low priority races and switched to tubulars for later races.
I think the main benefit would then be to use that data to design cx specific training. It would also give a good estimate of IF and TSS for a race, so you could manually enter values into Performance Manager for races wher you weren't using a PT.

i would have some concern in muddy conditions.

I train pretty regularly with my PT on my cross bike. I haven't raced with it, but I plan to do some early season races with it.

I'm hyper cautious about riding the hub in the rain and muck, so I don't. I'm running a PT pro, btw. The PT Sl seems to be a little better in the wet, but I'd still be cautious.

The SRM seems a to be a popular choice among those with the means. If I could afford it, I'd probably go this route and race and train with it all the time.

I am going to use my PT at least through September in races and I will continue to use it in training through the rest of the season. I am really interested to look at the data from a cross race. I will put my tubulars back on for the Verge races and on courses where tubulars have a clear advantage. But, I think there is a lot to be learned from the downloads.

I tried this two years ago and a close friend used his p-tap for all cross races for several years. Our unanimous conclusion was that it is virtually worthless.

I remember one cross race were I hurled but the P-tap gave an average of 209 watts. Problem is with dismounts, running, etc. you don't get a lot of useful information.

It might be interesting to see that you poped some ridiculous wattage # up some short steep climb, but its hard to document improvement or loss of fitness since the courses vary so much and the fact you might ride a section different on each lap depending on whats going on (attacks etc.) or changing course conditions.

Still if you own a p-tap, you might as well figure it out for yourself. Just be sure not to herniate yourself the first time you try and lift your bike.

jhr

I tried this two years ago and a close friend used his p-tap for all cross races for several years. Our unanimous conclusion was that it is virtually worthless.

I remember one cross race were I hurled but the P-tap gave an average of 209 watts. Problem is with dismounts, running, etc. you don't get a lot of useful information.

It might be interesting to see that you poped some ridiculous wattage # up some short steep climb, but its hard to document improvement or loss of fitness since the courses vary so much and the fact you might ride a section different on each lap depending on whats going on (attacks etc.) or changing course conditions.

Still if you own a p-tap, you might as well figure it out for yourself. Just be sure not to herniate yourself the first time you try and lift your bike.

jhr

Ok, useful information, how do you feel about it as a training tool for CX though? Not using during a race, just for getting stonger and faster?

I used a power tap on virtually every ride I did (road and cross, not mtb) for almost two years. I found that for me I stopped training or riding and just rode around collecting data (eg this ride is a waste if I don't average ___). This is a personal shortcoming not a problem with the power tap itself.

The powertap was very useful for documenting long term trends in fitness (or overtraining). You could literally see you monthly averages decline as you overtrained and burned out. You could see upward trends as well.

It was very useful for confirming things you sensed. That race was really hard (___ watts out of turn 3) or easy (ave. watts like a training ride).

It was most useful for those sub threshold intervals that seem to be very popular these days (it was excellent for 10 min tt intervals, less useful for sprints but still useful)

In the end for me though I felt like it was harming me more than helping me (no matter how crappy you feel your not going to let yourself ride around with a 120 watt average even if thats what you really need to recover). I am definitely prone towards over rather than under training (within the context of haveing a family and job). That combined with the fact the equipment was fairly finicky and very heavy (I had the standard system) lead me to dump it all on E-bay.

I have no doubt that for many (even most) people it is a useful training aid if used correctly, I just didn't seem to be able to use it correctly (and my personal opinion is that many people that have them don't and they become power tap stars [great p-tap numbers but no real racing results. After dumping the power tap I had my best cross season ever (a very low bar by objective standards) in 2006.

Hope this helps. As I previously stated, if you already have a p-tap set up for the road you ought to at least try it out on the cross bike for yourself since your own experiences may differ widely from mine.

jh

No I don't already have a PT hub, I was considering it. Maybe the money is better spent on more killer wheels?

Cross and powertaps don't really make sense to me for reasons cited above- courses vary a great deal so comparing results won't be very useful, you might be able to ride some short obstacles like sand or a steep hill that will spike your watts but are of such short duration that the usefulness will be questionable.

If you are using a powertap for training in general and asking this question then I wonder if you are actually getting any benefit from the tool. I see lots of people riding with them and very few actually training with them. Just having the discipline to do the field tests to adjust your thresholds is incredibly important yet few people do it so they end up undertraining, limiting their training or worst case detraining from their peak fitness.

I use the Suunto T6. It doesn't have power but I can use it for any aerobic activity- road, mountain, tt, cross when on the bike and for xc skiiing, snowshoeing, etc in the winter. I also don't have to put buy four extra wheels in order to get my "data fix" and I get great training data when I cross train. The PC software learns your fitness and won't let you cheat. If you aren't so disciplined about doing field tests the Suunto recognizes improvements in your fitness and changes your EPOC thresholds (check their website for more information on EPOC).

If you want to become a faster cross racer, the best way to spend your money is to hire a coach. If the coach recommends getting a Powertap, then get one. In the long run this investment will make a far bigger impact than wheels or other gear.

I do have a coach, and use a Powertap on my road bike for all training and racing. On the recommendation of my coach, who has lots of cross experience, I do not plan on using a Powertap for cross racing for the reasons listed above--effort during a cross race is too variable and dictated by the course and terrain, and during hard efforts when running off the bike your watts would read zero, etc. Unlike a road race, it is hard to imagine in a cross race you would ever look at your Powertap computer and decide to go harder or easier based on the watts displayed. However, I will likely wire up my cross "B" bike for Powertap and use it for on and off road training as cross season nears.

If you want to become a faster cross racer, the best way to spend your money is to hire a coach. If the coach recommends getting a Powertap, then get one.


Word.

If you want to become a faster cross racer, the best way to spend your money is to hire a coach.

First I must become a cross racer, right now I am a guy who can stay upright on a cx bike to finish all the laps. :)
I have a friend who is a coach and although she does not coach me she highly recommends them (PT's) to anyone who can afford one.

First I must become a cross racer, right now I am a guy who can stay upright on a cx bike to finish all the laps. :)
I have a friend who is a coach and although she does not coach me she highly recommends them (PT's) to anyone who can afford one.

then at this piont, i would say forget the PT, forget the coach.... just go out this season and race. HAVE FUN. ask people for pointers and work on your skills. cross is typically a chill scene and people are willing to help newcomers.

Having killer watts or a pissah wheelset is pointless if you cant dismount/remount your bike.

I have a power meter on my road bike but don't consider using it for cx. Mainly because I have the Polar system and i don't feel it would be satisfactory for off road use. If I had a powertap, I'd consider using it a couple times and maybe for a couple training sessions, but it's more of a distraction than anything.

Ultimately, in order to get fast, you have to realistically assess what are the demands placed on a rider throughout the season, and relative to the specific courses you expect to race on. Each rider has different demands placed upon him. Be honest with yourself about what your strengths and weaknesses are, and focus on ways to develop those weaknesses w/o neglecting your strengths. Unless you've raced cx for 8-10 years or more, it's hard to know yet. But you can rely on your gut instinct and that could be influenced by your experiences on the road or mountain bike.

For me, I sit down and visualize from memory and draw a little map of each race course from the previous season, or those I expect to race on for the upcoming year. I diagram out the courses and look at it as if it were a "connect-the-dot" puzzle. Each course has several "dots" that you could connect. Some dots work for YOU and some don't. Some dots make YOU faster, some make OTHER people faster. Some dots are just free "recovery" zones that you can keep your speed up w/o any effort if you know how.

I imagine myself racing around each course and analyze each little technical section, each steady power pedalling section, each heavy braking spot, each accelleration, each barrier, etc. to really see what kind of efforts I would have to put out. Things like, 10 sprints of 3-15 seconds from a 180 degree corner, some greasy off camber, one big 2 minute pedalling effort, high speed barriers w/ fast remounts, runups, mud lines, etc. I figure out what type of physical skills are needed to go around the course quickly and then imagine where I most likely struggled. What can I work on physically during my training sessions that will develop my abilities and enable me to apply those key skills to those race maps?

Once you understand the context of your racing, the true demands placed on a rider, you can tailor your training rides in accordance. Until you are familiar w/ that context, you should just go out and have fun and gain experience. There are so many participants at the lower ability levels that you'll have to learn the ropes first if you wanna beat all those competitors.

Back to power meters, you can measure wattage output on your road bike during training rides too if you wanna be able to quantify the amount of work you're doing and analyze for progress. In my opinion, there are so very many variables besides just "power output" to consider that it's nothing worth obsessing over more than any of the other details. (For example, tire pressure, bike handling skills, confidence, motor skills at threshold, nutrition, hydration, mechanical tricks, etc.) Certainly worthy of consideration though if that's your greatest limiter.

Good luck.

CDB

CDB: Great post, thanks!

If you don't have money for a power meter or for a coach, buy Joe Firel's book "The Cyclisists Training Bible" for 10-20 bucks. Although a lot of the book is dedicated to HR or power workouts, if you read it you will get the essence of good training principles. Then find a HR monitor and use it until you can finish a race. Then maybe consider using some power meter for training. I have used my HR monitor in cross races and find it useless. resting HR: 80 onthe line. Start-> 182 max for the next 30-45 minutes. Cx is such an all out effort, I really don't think there is much benefit in getting data from the race itself - it is after all all-out.

Just my thoughts, race and have fun. Always pull a wheelie at the line no matter your place - the kids love it.

Joe Friel's book - sorry

Great posts, I do have a HRM and two of Joe's books, MTB and Triathlete training bibles. I've written out a training plan for this summer and fall and plan on sticking to it as best as I can and just learning from the season. Meanwhile, while I am still working part time for a shop I am trying to buy up as much cool stuff as I can. :)