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  1. #1
    jwk
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    How do I install new chain on road bike?? Help

    I replaced my old cassette with a new one but my old chain was a Shimano and my new chain is a KMC. The KMC uses a master link, but my question here is, when I measure my old chain to my new one, do I count the master link as 1 link or is that not factored in since it will be holding the chain together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    I replaced my old cassette with a new one but my old chain was a Shimano and my new chain is a KMC. The KMC uses a master link, but my question here is, when I measure my old chain to my new one, do I count the master link as 1 link or is that not factored in since it will be holding the chain together.
    I recommend using the attached to determine correct chain length. The master link is factored in when calculating.
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830683908.pdf

    Once at the page, reference Chain Length.

  3. #3
    jwk
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    I recommend using the attached to determine correct chain length. The master link is factored in when calculating.
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830683908.pdf

    Once at the page, reference Chain Length.
    Thanks for the info. I have one more question. I have a valve extender and removable core valve. I cannot get any air inside my tire however. I don't understand why. I opened it up and it still will not lock into place

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    I recommend using the attached to determine correct chain length. The master link is factored in when calculating.
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830683908.pdf
    [/B].
    Of course, this assumes you replaced the cassette with one the same size. Say you went from an 11-23 to 12-25, the chain may need to lengthen.

    I prefer to use the SRAM method of wrapping the chain around the large-large combination (largest cog and largest chainring) and adding one lengths plus a power link. A link consists of a pair of inner links and outer plates. Ensure you end with an inner link to attach the power link.

    http://www.sram.com/sites/default/fi...0spd__2_07.pdf

    This prevents you from potentially running an incorrect chain length if it was not previously sized properly.
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  5. #5
    jwk
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocanman View Post
    Of course, this assumes you replaced the cassette with one the same size. Say you went from an 11-23 to 12-25, the chain may need to lengthen.

    I prefer to use the SRAM method of wrapping the chain around the large-large combination (largest cog and largest chainring) and adding one lengths plus a power link. A link consists of a pair of inner links and outer plates. Ensure you end with an inner link to attach the power link.

    http://www.sram.com/sites/default/fi...0spd__2_07.pdf

    This prevents you from potentially running an incorrect chain length if it was not previously sized properly.
    Thanks I appreciate this! I was simply going to copy chain links on old and then cut it but my old cassette is 11-28 where my new one is 11-25. I am going to size the chain by making sure the rear derailer is 90 degree right angle. I also had one more question. My removable core valve, I cannot get any air into the tire, even with it fully loosened. Do you know what is causing this? If I replace the removable core I am hoping that will work
    Last edited by jwk; 02-12-2012 at 07:14 PM. Reason: adding comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by velocanman View Post
    Of course, this assumes you replaced the cassette with one the same size. Say you went from an 11-23 to 12-25, the chain may need to lengthen.

    I prefer to use the SRAM method of wrapping the chain around the large-large combination (largest cog and largest chainring) and adding one lengths plus a power link. A link consists of a pair of inner links and outer plates. Ensure you end with an inner link to attach the power link.

    http://www.sram.com/sites/default/fi...0spd__2_07.pdf

    This prevents you from potentially running an incorrect chain length if it was not previously sized properly.
    That's precisely why I recommended the method I did. Any changes in cassette would be taken into consideration.

    That aside, there are more than a couple of reliable methods, yours being another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    Thanks for the info. I have one more question. I have a valve extender and removable core valve. I cannot get any air inside my tire however. I don't understand why. I opened it up and it still will not lock into place
    Most likely just a sticking/ broken valve core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    That's precisely why I recommended the method I did. Any changes in cassette would be taken into consideration.
    Understood, but it needed to be mentioned to not just use the current chain but check the chain length on the bike. The Shimano tech manual doesn't discuss quick-links, and he said he was using a KMC link.

    Since he went to a smaller cassette at 11-25 this is also relevant, since he will probably need a chain one link shorter.

    If someone runs a compact crankset I think it is even more important not to run a long chain. You need the extra rear derailleur tension in the smaller chainring to keep the rear shifting fast and precise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocanman View Post
    Understood, but it needed to be mentioned to not just use the current chain but check the chain length on the bike. The Shimano tech manual doesn't discuss quick-links, and he said he was using a KMC link.

    Since he went to a smaller cassette at 11-25 this is also relevant, since he will probably need a chain one link shorter.

    If someone runs a compact crankset I think it is even more important not to run a long chain. You need the extra rear derailleur tension in the smaller chainring to keep the rear shifting fast and precise.
    Sorry, but I'm not following you. Following the method I linked to, the (new) chain would be installed on the bike and the length checked. As I stated, the changes in cassettes will be taken into consideration - the current chain (and it's length) are irrelevant.

    As far as the connecting method, compact crankset or not, following Shimano's method and factoring in the master link will result in the correct chain length for the OP's drivetrain. There's no need for Shimano to specifically mention it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    Sorry, but I'm not following you. Following the method I linked to, the (new) chain would be installed on the bike and the length checked. As I stated, the changes in cassettes will be taken into consideration - the current chain (and it's length) are irrelevant.

    As far as the connecting method, compact crankset or not, following Shimano's method and factoring in the master link will result in the correct chain length for the OP's drivetrain. There's no need for Shimano to specifically mention it.
    My error. Your original post did mention the master link. I was afraid it might be vague to a Beginner, since the Shimano procedure doesn't say "Replace the side plate with a master link."

    My comment on not measuring against the old chain, and the reasoning why, was really in response to the OP and shouldn't have been linked to your post. Sorry about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocanman View Post
    My error. Your original post did mention the master link. I was afraid it might be vague to a Beginner, since the Shimano procedure doesn't say "Replace the side plate with a master link."

    My comment on not measuring against the old chain, and the reasoning why, was really in response to the OP and shouldn't have been linked to your post. Sorry about that.
    No worries.. points taken.

  12. #12
    jwk
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocanman View Post
    understood, but it needed to be mentioned to not just use the current chain but check the chain length on the bike. The shimano tech manual doesn't discuss quick-links, and he said he was using a kmc link.

    Since he went to a smaller cassette at 11-25 this is also relevant, since he will probably need a chain one link shorter.

    If someone runs a compact crankset i think it is even more important not to run a long chain. You need the extra rear derailleur tension in the smaller chainring to keep the rear shifting fast and precise.
    well, here was the end result. Looking at the manual, i focused on making sure that little wheel that is just below the cassette, was at a 90 degree right angle from the ground. I then removed the extra links that i didn't need. However, i then realized i had to take one more off in order for the master link to be used. What concerned me was now by having to take an extra link off, it may cause that little wheel to be slightly too far forward. I also had problems getting the master link to lock. As i spun the crank, i could hear and feel the chain bind as it went over the gears. I finally did exactly what the instructions said, to cause the bike to lurch forward by hitting the peddle hard which i did and then the links snapped into place. My only concern is i also used pliers to try and spread the links out to make them lock into place. I hope i did not damage the rollers on the chain. Now my problem is shifting seems ok but a little off and noisy.

  13. #13
    jwk
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    Hey Guys, I am also at a loss to explain why initially I was unable to put air into my tires, even after having the removable valve core completely open. After closing it slightly, I was finally able to get it to close. Could it be a defective valve core? Has this ever happened to you guys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    well, here was the end result. Looking at the manual, i focused on making sure that little wheel that is just below the cassette, was at a 90 degree right angle from the ground. I then removed the extra links that i didn't need. However, i then realized i had to take one more off in order for the master link to be used. What concerned me was now by having to take an extra link off, it may cause that little wheel to be slightly too far forward. I also had problems getting the master link to lock. As i spun the crank, i could hear and feel the chain bind as it went over the gears. I finally did exactly what the instructions said, to cause the bike to lurch forward by hitting the peddle hard which i did and then the links snapped into place. My only concern is i also used pliers to try and spread the links out to make them lock into place. I hope i did not damage the rollers on the chain. Now my problem is shifting seems ok but a little off and noisy.
    If you reference the link I provided (specifically the diagram under Chain Length), you'll see that erring on the side of slightly shorter (the lower pulley slightly ahead of the upper) results in an adequate chain length, especially when running triples. Keep in mind that you need some tension when in the small/ small combo's, so try it and see. It's likely you're fine.

    Re: your issues with the valve core, may have been dirt/ grit worked its way in. If you're concerned replace the core, but just a FYI, that's why I still use caps with presta valves.

    Re: the noisy chain, some are packaged with a protective coating, so if you haven't already done so, lube the chain. You don't need to remove the coating first, because lubing and running the chain backwards through a rag/ cloth will remove any excess.

    Lastly, unless you were pretty ham fisted with those pliers, I'd doubt you damaged the chain, but since I wasn't over your shoulder watching, can't say for sure. A visual check may be in order, and consider staying closer to home to 'test ride' before venturing out on a longer ride. Unusual noises or skips when that section of chain runs through the RD are warning signs.

  15. #15
    jwk
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ352 View Post
    If you reference the link I provided (specifically the diagram under Chain Length), you'll see that erring on the side of slightly shorter (the lower pulley slightly ahead of the upper) results in an adequate chain length, especially when running triples. Keep in mind that you need some tension when in the small/ small combo's, so try it and see. It's likely you're fine.

    Re: your issues with the valve core, may have been dirt/ grit worked its way in. If you're concerned replace the core, but just a FYI, that's why I still use caps with presta valves.

    Re: the noisy chain, some are packaged with a protective coating, so if you haven't already done so, lube the chain. You don't need to remove the coating first, because lubing and running the chain backwards through a rag/ cloth will remove any excess.

    Lastly, unless you were pretty ham fisted with those pliers, I'd doubt you damaged the chain, but since I wasn't over your shoulder watching, can't say for sure. A visual check may be in order, and consider staying closer to home to 'test ride' before venturing out on a longer ride. Unusual noises or skips when that section of chain runs through the RD are warning signs.
    Thanks for the info and I guess by accident, I got the little gear going slightly forward. I learned the hard way that using a KMC chain, you have to also look at the links because if you pull the one off that has just the two links on both sides with no rollers, then your screwed. I am going to get that special tool to snap the chain into place. My next headache is now trying to figure out how to adjust the gears as they rub a little. anyway I love the 80mm deep dish and had a chance to ride around in my garage last night. thanks for your help! My only last dilima is the inconsistency of my presta valve that will not allow air to go into tire unless I screw it down a bit

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    My next headache is now trying to figure out how to adjust the gears as they rub a little.
    That's likely fixed by making a minor cable tension adjustment. If you have a stand or someone around to prop the rear wheel off the ground, do so and while in a noisy gear hand crank to get the drivetrain moving. Use your left hand to very slightly pull outward on the cable running under the right chain stay. If the noise lessens, you need to tighten cable tension by turning the RD barrel adjuster towards the wheel. Do this incrementally, checking for the noise each time.

    If this test doesn't result in less noise (but rather, more) there's too much tension, so the barrel adjuster needs to rotate towards you. This scenario is, IME less likely but can happen.

    BTW, that same Shimano tech doc I provided previously has steps for RD set up/ adjustment - obviously only applies if your bike is so equipped. Otherwise, refer to the appropriate set up instructions.

    EDIT: The above assumes by 'rubbing' you mean at the RD. If it's at the front, provide some info, but (assuming proper FD setup) the general concept will likely still apply.
    Last edited by PJ352; 02-13-2012 at 06:00 AM. Reason: additions..

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