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Training Program suggestions?

10K views 123 replies 17 participants last post by  tddeangelo 
#1 ·
OK, so I got my new bike, lovin' it, and starting to look at new routes to take to extend the 10-mile loops I've done a few times.

When I started running, there was variety to choose from on training programs to build strength and endurance up to running 5k from no running at all, and then to go from 5k to 10k, 10k to 1/2 Marathon, etc. Even had smart phone apps to help make the programs even more logistically simple.

I'm not finding so much for cycling, and some of the stuff I do find seems to be written in some language I don't get, because it's heavy on acronyms and shorthand. I find it humorous and ironic that plans for "beginners" use such notation, as only a cyclist presumably beyond that level of training would know what they mean. LOL

So, anyway, suggestions for plans to help me boost my strength and endurance? I am not great hill climber, so that's an area I could focus, and I've done a pretty mild 14-miler, so I can go farther than my 10-miler if I keep to a mild pace. So I guess I'm looking to work on hills, endurance, and eventually speed. When I did the longer ride, it was actually 13.8 miles at about 12.9mph average. My ride on the 10.3-mile loop yesterday averaged 14.1mph, just to give some indications on where my pace is at currently.

Any suggestions would be fantastic.

Thanks! :thumbsup:
 
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#4 ·
Couldn't you take the concepts from the running programs and adapt them to cycling. (distance days, speed days, hill days, rest days, etc.) I am not a runner by any means, and not much of a cyclist at this point, but I would think the concepts would align fairly well between these two activities. I might be naïve, but it would seem like any activity where you are looking to build performance and fitness would all follow a similar plan, starting with proper form, then progressing to strength and endurance while maintaining proper form.
 
#5 ·
forget training at this point and just ride your bike and have fun without pressure to "train" or perform at a certain level. Ride longer one day a week. Ride some hills and ride some flats. Build your endurance slowy but steadly-10% increase in long rides. Back off every 4th week. Leave the computer off the bike and just ride for time for 1 hr or 1.5 hrs for example. Your body doesn't know miles but it knows time. Once you start counting miles you will be focusing on speed. Just ride and your body will adapt and you will be riding further and faster. Maybe next spring start putting some structure in your rides or just ride like I discribed above for awhile longer-whatever feels right. Even if your weight is good and you are aerobically fit you need time/miles to develop cycling muscles as well as skill handling the bike.
 
#13 ·
forget training at this point and just ride your bike and have fun without pressure to "train" or perform at a certain level. Ride longer one day a week. Ride some hills and ride some flats.
Life isn't for training.... life is for living.

I am also in the "ride lots" group. There is a lot more to cycling than heart rates and average speeds. Take the time to learn to ride safely. And enjoy the experience. I sometimes say that: I don't exercise.... but I do bicycle a lot.
 
#6 ·
For where you are at now I'd say your proper training program would be quite simple. Ride lots. Try to make your rides gradually longer and you'll notice that they'll get gradually faster as well. Intervals and all that jazz aren't really what you need right now.
 
#7 ·
I'm essentially with the 'ride lots' crowd. Building base miles comes before getting into a more regimented training program. And when that time comes, it should be tailored to your goals, short and long term.

I part slightly with some members, though. I think cadence should be monitored, good form and a smooth pedal stroke developed, so don't leave your computer at home.

I also think there's a place for an interval or two. Could be something as simple as racing to that sign post up ahead. Considering that you mentioned challenging yourself, I think that would serve to keep you interested/ entertained along the way.

Here are two linked related to cadence/ smoothing the pedal stroke. Not specifically traniing related, but kinda....
VIDEO: Pedaling Technique

Cycling Cadence
 
#10 ·
Agree to ride lots, work on form, and CADENCE!!! I helped a beginner cyclist prepare for a very difficult mountain bike race. The first thing I recommended was to get a computer with a cadence function, immediate improvement. We did lots of road riding for fitness, even though it was it a mountain bike race.
 
#11 ·
The Rox 5.0 I have coming....some time, no ETA yet..... has speed functions, distance functions, HRM, and cadence. Also can be used with my running when I get healed up from this achilles injury and back to running. It's feeling almost back to normal, but I figure it should have AT LEAST another week off, if not two, before I even think about easing back to it.

At any rate, when that comes in, I can monitor HRM and cadence, which I think will be important data.

Tomorrow I'm planning to focus on my pedal stroke, and my time/speed fall where they may.

Good stuff here! Thanks for the help thus far, and keep it comin'! :):thumbsup:
 
#14 ·
Will do. :)

I guess by "specific" cadence, I more meant "a known cadence," as I honestly can't fathom counting it out as I'm riding. My mind just doesn't work like that, lol.

So, when the computer is in, I'll know what it is rather than the fairly crude "I think I should be spinning faster" estimations I make now.

I'm also glad I had one somewhat moderate ride first, and then yesterday, I wouldn't say I was "hammering," but I wanted to see what the bike and I could do on a loop I'd ridden on the mtb a few times already.

I have some ideas on a loop of about 15 miles or so tomorrow. If I'm feeling up to it, I can stretch it some places. Tomorrow I just want to work on the pedal stroke stuff in the vid that was linked a few posts up....keep what I perceive as a fairly high cadence, but focus in on making my strokes better/smoother, and see what that does for me in how the ride goes.

THIS is my motivator...biking, running, my martial arts, my bow/rifles (I hunt and shoot)......finding "focus areas" and working for that incremental improvement. I have learned through those other endeavors that practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. While I'll never be perfect, if I don't learn basics now, I will later have to unlearn bad habits. So...the form tips and ideas are HUGELY appreciated. :)
 
#15 ·
I have learned through those other endeavors that practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. While I'll never be perfect, if I don't learn basics now, I will later have to unlearn bad habits. So...the form tips and ideas are HUGELY appreciated. :)
Definitely applies to cycling. I've been doing adult/ fitness riding for ~30 years now and am sometimes amazed at how poor my form can be when fatigue sets in.

Gotta be ever vigilant of maintaining good form or fit issues crop up.
 
#16 ·
Having watched my wife transition from cycling to also running over the past 6 months, I think one of the reasons some of the intro to running programs are more prescriptive is that running provideds a greater potential for injury from going too far or too hard too soon. At each and every break through workout she has come home with a new niggle or sore spot.

"Ride lots" is a bit vague. Generally I have heard new riders encouraged to accumulate at least 2000 miles before worrying about a "training plan". That's not to say you can't or shouldn't be working on form, spinning, bike handling, climbing hills, occsassionally going fast, etc. But, accumulate some miles in your legs and get part way up the fairly steep early adaptation curve before worrying about committing to a "plan".

Friel's book has been a bit of a gold standard for a long time. But, it's pretty heavy reading with lots of those acronyms you mentioned. There are plenty of other more basic books out there more suited to beginners. I'd recommend starting at your local library and seeing what they have. While investing in a book like Friel's is a good idea because it can be a useful reference throughout one's cycling career, you'll be likely to outgrow the beginners books. So, borrow those if you can.
 
#17 ·
Just got back from the morning ride.... :)

14.5 miles and 1,111 feet of climbs. Biggest ride so far, and I muttered some very unkind things about a few of those steep spots, but I got through them all the same. The descents were just as steep, if not moreso, and I rarely just let it roll, just because I didn't know the roads well enough to anticipate where in the lane I should be, possible hazards, etc, so I played it pretty safe and relatively slow going down, too. There were some steeper spots where I just couldn't spin them, even in my lowest gear, so I had to get up and grind it out. It does feel good to get over the top, though. :thumbsup:

I can feel the efficiency of what Friel was talking about in the video linked a few posts up....the "horizontal" pedal stroke, so to speak. When I would retain my focus on pushing my toes front and heel back, I immediately felt the bike surge ahead slightly. Now I just need to keep practicing it so it becomes second nature.

I also focused on staying in a gear until my cadence came up high enough to make my hips just start to bounce. Then, depending on terrain, I'd either slow up a hair to stay in that gear, or up-shift.

I only went to the big ring once, on a BIG down hill that was arrow straight and had a long straight up hill on the other side. I just wanted to go fast down that hill. :)

So far so good. And I held 13.1mph for the ride. I'm gonna guess my riding will be like my running. Hard runs versus "ok, go easy" runs wind up being close in pace. Probably means I'm terrible at pacing myself, lol.
 
#18 ·
I think I am in much the same position as you are, here are my thoughts….
So what is your end goal? Are you looking for a 1 hour ride for fitness or are you looking to eventually be able to do an all-day pleasure ride, or something in between? Or, maybe you don't really know at this point. At this point it probably doesn't really matter. What is your limiting factor now, what is still sore an hour after the end of your ride? Sounds like you are on the right track to start with.... proper stroke form, and cadence, add in proper posture. (If you’re a runner, you should already be aware of proper hydration and nutrition.) Get these three things established first. Once you have that down, start working on what is limiting you. For me there are three considerations, time, distance and speed, decide which your primary goal is. For example if you are looking to go for a certain time, (2hrs, 4hrs, etc.) then work on increasing your time in the saddle, and don’t worry about speed and distance. If looking for a certain distance, (25 miles, 50 miles, etc.) then works on increasing distance and don't worry about speed or time. Decide which your primary goal is: time, distance or speed, establish a base line, and then work on increasing it. Most people recommend increases of no more than 10% per week. Concentrate on your primary objective first, then you can work on the secondary goals. There is no reason that you can't inter-mingle these into the same ride. Just decide which is primary and which are secondary. But first establish proper “form” (stroke, cadence, posture, etc.) It sounds like you have the perfect terrain for natural interval training; work going up the hills, recovery going downhill. As for using a HRM, you may find using “rate of perceived effort” (google it) effective as well. For me it is easier, as I don’t have to monitor another number on an instrument. The only number I need to monitor is cadence. Once I have the feel for the proper cadence range, then I can worry more about other numbers, (speed, distance, etc.). I’m still working on establishing the proper “form”. Most importantly – enjoy your ride!!! All the time, distance, speed should be secondary to enjoying your time on the bike!!
 
#19 ·
I've passed in and out of doing structured training as my goals have dictated.

I think there's a lot to be said for just going for a ride and having fun with it. As long as you don't do too much volume too soon, you're a lot less likely to hurt yourself on a bike than by running. And it's also a lot harder to hurt yourself on a bike with too much intensity, although when people insist on mashing around at low cadence, it can certainly happen. After a couple of false starts that ended in me messing up my ankle, it took following Couch to 5k to get back into running without getting hurt.

Just explore your area. Try to get in a couple rides during the week with whatever time you have available. Ride for as long as your inclination and the rest of your life allow on the weekend. Leave a more structured plan for when (if) you have a competitive goal in mind. Since bicycles can coast, you ought to be able to do everything up to and including a Century on "ride lots," possibly with a little attention paid to volume.
 
#20 ·
I like the concept of working fundamentals and building time on the bike, as I can feel I'm getting a little better already, as far as the hills I managed to pull today.

My long term goals..... Not too sure. I don't envision competing, other than with myself. I want to develop some stamina and speed. I would say life will hold me to 1-2 hours for rides for the foreseeable future, except for some weekends. A Century might not be in th cards, just from a time perspective, and that's ok.


I have some nutty thoughts of maybe doing a triathlon at some point just to say I finished one, who knows.


For now, it's to get stronger, ride incrementally longer, and climb without dreading it. Lol
 
#21 ·
I don't envision competing, other than with myself. I want to develop some stamina and speed. I would say life will hold me to 1-2 hours for rides for the foreseeable future
This (essentially) sums up what I've done for (literally) decades. I call it adult fitness riding. Served me quite well. And just a BTW... all those 1-2 hour rides can add up to around 6k annually, which is about what I've done the last 2-3 years.

For now, it's to get stronger, ride incrementally longer, and climb without dreading it. Lol
Worthy goals, IMO. I have no doubt you'll get there, and sooner than you'd think. Well, the hills part may take a little longer. :eek:
(j/k)
 
#22 ·
No, you're probably quite right about the hills, lol. I'm running my gears to the "bottom" and still had to get off the saddle for a couple of the steeper spots in the ride. I hit a 14% grade about 10 miles into the ride that was not a joy to climb, and was mercifully not that steep for more than about a quarter mile, but I was pretty happy to get past it without a stop.

I just looked at my data on MapMyRide and Strava, and I'm seeing that my pedal stroke work showed up in the data. My speed is more consistent. Not great, but the wild variations are smoothing out a bit.

I think I'm going to see if I can find a fun looking route of about 15-17 miles for tomorrow. :)
 
#23 ·
No, you're probably quite right about the hills, lol. I'm running my gears to the "bottom" and still had to get off the saddle for a couple of the steeper spots in the ride. I hit a 14% grade about 10 miles into the ride that was not a joy to climb, and was mercifully not that steep for more than about a quarter mile, but I was pretty happy to get past it without a stop.
If you maxed out on your low gears and got yourself over the hill 'out of the saddle', that's fine, but avoid mashing. A better alternative may be to look into lower gearing and as your fitness improves, switch back to the OE setup.

I just looked at my data on MapMyRide and Strava, and I'm seeing that my pedal stroke work showed up in the data. My speed is more consistent. Not great, but the wild variations are smoothing out a bit.

I think I'm going to see if I can find a fun looking route of about 15-17 miles for tomorrow. :)
It all takes time, but you'll get there. Just remember, increase saddle time incrementally and watch intensity.
 
#24 ·
Didn't get to do much time tonight...thunderstorms rolled through, but let me have a brief window close to the end of the day, so I knocked out 8.1 miles in just under 32 minutes, or ave speed (according to Strava) of 15.5mph. I was pretty happy with that.

Tomorrow I will hopefully have time to get for a longer ride at a slower pace.

I also felt a bit more "on target" with pedal stroke. Not great, but an improvement. Put it this way, I was able to spin the whole way up a hill that the last time I pedaled it I had to stand up for about 50 yards, so I'm making progress.

I'm also up to 46.7 miles on the Roubaix. Not huge mileage, but I've had it under a week, so I'm doing ok.

:)
 
#26 ·
Thanks! :)

I'm trying to make 50 mile weeks for now, since I'm not running. I figured 50-75 miles per week should be ok for me, and then look to bump that up a bit when my body tells me it's ready.

The funny thing tonight is that I just worked on pedal stroke and keeping the pedals spinning fast without downshifting as much. That's mostly where the bump in speed came from, not from me deciding to necessarily go "hammer" the ride.

That's pretty cool, to get those results from paying attention to basics of form.
 
#27 ·
Thanks! :)

I'm trying to make 50 mile weeks for now, since I'm not running. I figured 50-75 miles per week should be ok for me, and then look to bump that up a bit when my body tells me it's ready.
Well put. Our bodies DO speak to us. It's up to us to listen.

The funny thing tonight is that I just worked on pedal stroke and keeping the pedals spinning fast without downshifting as much. That's mostly where the bump in speed came from, not from me deciding to necessarily go "hammer" the ride.

That's pretty cool, to get those results from paying attention to basics of form.
Yup. fit and form go hand in hand.

I'm not an advocate for setting bikes up like the pro's, but watching them does teach us good form. When fatigued, even their form degrades/ becomes sloppy. But when they're keeping a rhythm, they dance on the pedals, spinning at 90+ UP hills. There's a lesson in all that.
 
#28 ·
I agree with the ease into training approach. Letting the mileage naturally add up can actually go a long way. Once you add in a challenging climb or two (challenging to you) to your regular rides, you might surprise yourself by how much you start to develop. Once you get to the point where you want to formally start training, I believe in 2 simple things: 1) sprint/intensity intervals and 2) hill repeats. They really worked for me and the cool thing about training that way is that you can build them into your planned rides if you use strava or mapmyride or something similar to set your course. I found that I am far more likely to train if it is part of a ride than if I have to sit on the trainer for two hours.
 
#29 ·
My time has been limited during the week, so I've gone with 8- and 10- mile rides. I got in an 8.1 mile ride last night, averaged 15.6mph.

If I can get the time today, I want to slow it down and go longer....I've developed an intense loathing of certain hills in the area, lol, but I need to take them on. I've climbed them, but I still prefer not to. I was this way with my running, too, and as I got stronger I had less aversion.

Speaking of running, my Achilles injury is mostly healed. I don't think it's time to start running yet, but possibly next week. It'll be a month on 7/19 since my last run, so we'll see how it feels next week and if I'm ready to try it. If so, I'll go light and slow, and build it up.

I'm kind of excited about cross-training, as it'll break up the routine of one or the other.

As of last night, I have 65 miles on the Roubaix. I have noticed that going harder, shorter, beats me up significantly more than longer and slower. I did a 13-mile ride at 12.9mph average that didn't feel too taxing at all, and a 14.5-mile ride at 13.1mph that, aside from some pretty steep slopes in it, I really wasn't wiped out at all after it.
 
#30 ·
So, my "just go easy, go a little longer, and shoot for no more than 13mph" ride tonight became 15.0 miles in 1:04 (14.1-14.3, MMR and Strava slightly disagree, and I didn't do the math, lol). Not a blistering pace, for sure, but was more speed than I'd expected. Hit some bigger hills than I expected, too, with 825' of gains. Most was not much, but there was a couple "oh crap" moments when rounding a bend.

Legs feel good....I did open the throttle a little on the final 2 miles, just because I felt good and wanted to.

This Roubaix may not be a racing bike, but I do enjoy how it gets up and goes when I have the legs to do it.
 
#31 ·
Legs feel good....I did open the throttle a little on the final 2 miles, just because I felt good and wanted to.
Good to stay in tune with the bod, but indications are you aren't (yet?) overdoing. Wouldn't hurt to do a recovery ride tomorrow. Maybe have a goal of NOT going faster, but doing that same route.

This Roubaix may not be a racing bike, but I do enjoy how it gets up and goes when I have the legs to do it.
Roubaix's are well known on the pro circuits. The bike ain't gonna hold you back. :wink5:
 
#32 · (Edited)
Actually, Fridays are my off days in my workout regimen, so no ride tomorrow. I rode the last three days (including today), so I'm cool with a break. Saturday I want to go slow and longer, so maybe edge out towards 20miles, but really work on reining myself in to not push up too high on speed.

Weekends are when I have the time to ride, so I want to get some miles in on Sat/Sun, but don't want to beat myself up too bad, either.

I'm really hopeful that I might get to start the phase in again for running next week. The Achilles really started feeling better, almost like a light switch, when I started riding a bike, and mobility seems good.

I still feel a slight bit of stiffness or a slight soreness, so this week was out, but by and large, it's back to normal for several days now, so I'm hoping mid-week I can start running, too. I'm looking forward to recovering from rides by running, and vice versa. Actually pretty excited about it.

I log my calorie intake and exercise calorie usage for my weight loss program, and since I started cycling, my calorie use has surged noticeably. Hoping to see the pay off from that here soon... :)

And as for the bike "holding me back," it'd take a pretty bad bike to do that. LOL

The INSTANT feedback the Roubaix gives me when I pay close attention to pedal stroke and smooth it out is so cool, or when I push over a hill top and throw it up a few gears and start down the hill, man, it just gets up and GOES. I like it. :thumbsup:
 
#33 ·
20.2 miles today, 1135.2' of climb, 14.1mph average speed.

I was not pushing for speed, that's just where it shook out. My legs are tired, and I believe 20mi is my current distance limit. I'm not completely wiped out, but I know I put out a good effort. Today also took me to 100 miles on the Roubaix.

I feel a bit more comfortable with it's handling now, too. Descents aren't as terrifying, although I still hold them back a bit (have only gone up to 36mph on a downhill, so far). Lots of "acclimating" to do yet with it, but it's getting better.

My LBS has a limited jersey selection, and they are not sized to fit me, lol. I wear a large or XL t-shirt and have some room usually, but an XL jersey, not so much, lol. Probably once I shed another 10-15lbs those XL's will fit. I currently were a C9 (from Champion) running shirt when I ride. It billows a little, but stays dry and is very light and comfortable. The back pockets on a jersey would be useful, though.

Anyone have any suggestions for us non-racing types who might want a jersey that doesn't make the wearer look like 10lbs of junk stuffed in a 5lb sack? ;)
 
#34 ·
20.2 miles today, 1135.2' of climb, 14.1mph average speed.

I was not pushing for speed, that's just where it shook out. My legs are tired, and I believe 20mi is my current distance limit. I'm not completely wiped out, but I know I put out a good effort. Today also took me to 100 miles on the Roubaix.
That is a good effort. Congrats. Good to keep in tune with how you're feeling and tailor the next ride accordingly.

I feel a bit more comfortable with it's handling now, too. Descents aren't as terrifying, although I still hold them back a bit (have only gone up to 36mph on a downhill, so far). Lots of "acclimating" to do yet with it, but it's getting better.
Even going from one road bike to another sometimes takes a few rides to shake things out (so to speak). All indications are you're doing fine, but this is gonna take more than a week. :)

Anyone have any suggestions for us non-racing types who might want a jersey that doesn't make the wearer look like 10lbs of junk stuffed in a 5lb sack? ;)
Performance has some nice jerseys at a moderate price. Look for club or relaxed fit - a slightly oversized fit, but won't flap in the wind.
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1127009_-1_400060__400060
 
#38 ·
Thanks guys for the jersey recommendations! :thumbsup:

I'm really enjoying my time on the bike, although my butt tells me the 1:25 I was out on the bike today was enough. I've noticed I'm not sore as much the next day, though, so I'm hoping to get out for 10 miles or so tomorrow. Definitely not as long as today, though.

I think, though, that once I get up to 35-40 miles, I'm going to need to work on speed rather than more distance, as I just simply won't have the time to ride that long on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure I have a while till I need to worry about it, though. LOL
 
#39 ·
I think, though, that once I get up to 35-40 miles, I'm going to need to work on speed rather than more distance, as I just simply won't have the time to ride that long on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure I have a while till I need to worry about it, though. LOL
Doesn't have to be either (duration) or (intensity). You can (and IMO, should) mix it up a little. Ride longer when the mood allows and time permits. Next, recovery (shorter/ moderate), then maybe a shorter, but higher intensity ride, then rest.... these being examples. We're all different, so find (and do) what works best for you.

For the short term, I'd tilt more towards duration than intensity.
 
#40 ·
That's kinda what I have in mind. My running program contained three runs per week: a short, relatively fast run, then a mid-length run with intervals, and then a longer, slower run for duration/distance.

I figured once I get into a routine, I'd try to mimic that progression on the bike as well.
 
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