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  1. #1
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    2011 Trek Madone 6.2 vs 2010 Jamis Team

    I am looking to replace my current ride, a 2008 Jamis SL with one of these two rides, the 2011 Trek 6.2 has ultegra while the 2010 Jamis Team has the Sram Red. the Jamis Team for 2010 was the omniad M40 carbon frame like the SL, their highest level offered. The Jamis is a China bike, but after riding mine for a few years can attest that it does well.
    I have been told that the Trek madone 6 series frame is well above the quality of any china frame. I have just the one local bike shop where I live and they do not have a madone 6, nor will they get one unless its definite to be sold.
    Can anyone attest to the better quality claims of the madone 6 series frame?
    is it going to be stiffer than the Jamis SL frame?
    the parts are important, but I can always upgrade the ultegra later as I desire so its not nearly as important as the frame when ride quality is focused on.
    I would be considering the H1 frame, no problem with low head tube hight.

    thanks
    Kevin

  2. #2
    Carbon Fiber = Explode!
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    Just know that even tough the Madone 6's (the 4's are taiwan and some of the 5's... the old 5's were Waterloo) are all USA.

    Their "lifetime warranty" isn't so lifetime. Also, anything "top of the line" can easily compete with anything else "top of the line". Whatever you buy, you will likely not complain at all and tell all of us with picture (I hope) how awesome your new bike is.
    '09 Voodoo Wazoo
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    1 hour of running = 1 hour of wasted time when you could have been riding. - Alaska Mike

  3. #3
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    If "Made in America" means anything to you, get the Trek. And that is not a knock on Asian sourced frames (although certain brands are grossly overpriced.) It's more the case that we're keeping some Americans gainfully employed.

    I'm a bit biased as I have a 6.9 H1 and think it's an exceptional ride. But I'm sure the Jamis is a good ride also.

    And right now we can sell a Project One 6.2 with full Ultegra for less than our "neighbor" Performance wants for an Asian sourced De Vinci that isn't even full Ultegra.
    Anyone who believes there are no stupid questions never worked in a bike shop.

  4. #4
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    Warranty isnt an issue as both the 6.2 and the jamis team are both used bikes.
    I dont know of any company that will warranty a frame that the owner bought used.

    I am really looking for what people are finding for stiffness in the Madone 6.2, I have not been able test ride one, the jamis team will ride like my current jamis SL as it is the same frame.

    Is the trek 6 series carbon really a step above the carbon found in the top of the line china built frames?

  5. #5
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    Frame warranty is pretty universal. If its obvious defect problem it should be cover regardless of the first second third fourth owner. A good LBS will help you out

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    Quote Originally Posted by kondre2000 View Post
    Warranty isnt an issue as both the 6.2 and the jamis team are both used bikes.
    I dont know of any company that will warranty a frame that the owner bought used.

    I am really looking for what people are finding for stiffness in the Madone 6.2, I have not been able test ride one, the jamis team will ride like my current jamis SL as it is the same frame.

    Is the trek 6 series carbon really a step above the carbon found in the top of the line china built frames?

    I have a 6.5 H2 2011 model. The frame is very stiff. I especially notice the bottom bracket area and the head tube area being much stiffer than my previous 6.5ssl. I have nearly 10,000 miles on mine now and cant complain about anything. Also the newer version Race x lite wheels are so much better than the previous version. On the previous version, I would get rim to brake rub when climbing out of the saddle if I did not open up the calipers. On the current version, I can set the pads very close to the rim and get no brake rub. The increase in spoke count really has made a difference with no weight gain of the wheelset. Just keep in mind that because the front end of the bike is quite stiff, any input you give it gives a rather dramatic response which sometimes makes the bike feel a little twitchy but once you adjust your riding it it great, especially out of the saddle

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergundog View Post
    Frame warranty is pretty universal. If its obvious defect problem it should be cover regardless of the first second third fourth owner. A good LBS will help you out
    As a bike buyer that spends into the 7 figure catagory with Trek yearly I can say The warranty is out of the hands of the dealer on 2nd owner bikes. I wouldn't go so far as to say that dealers haven't deceived them and gotten it done, but not as simple as just trying to force Trek to do it, even for top level dealers.
    Last edited by teoteoteo; 08-30-2011 at 04:11 AM.

  8. #8
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    FYI: If Made in USA means that much to you, plan for Trek to sell out in the next 2 years. All Taiwanese carbon frames were TCT and US built frames were OCLV. For 2012, all Trek carbon frames are OCLV. Yes, Taiwan now has the same carbon layup. I just saw this in the new 2012 Trek catalog. Safe to say that the days are numbered for the US built 6-Series. You turf twits can whine and complain all you want about a bike not made in the US, but the fact remains that the bike wasn't made in the US to please you. Business is business and you not buying that $6,000+ bike only means that someone else will. Now that Taiwan has been given the technology from Trek, they will be going the route that Cannondale did last year.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
    FYI: If Made in USA means that much to you, plan for Trek to sell out in the next 2 years. All Taiwanese carbon frames were TCT and US built frames were OCLV. For 2012, all Trek carbon frames are OCLV. Yes, Taiwan now has the same carbon layup. I just saw this in the new 2012 Trek catalog. Safe to say that the days are numbered for the US built 6-Series. You turf twits can whine and complain all you want about a bike not made in the US, but the fact remains that the bike wasn't made in the US to please you. Business is business and you not buying that $6,000+ bike only means that someone else will. Now that Taiwan has been given the technology from Trek, they will be going the route that Cannondale did last year.
    Turf twits? A little harsh dont you think. You can darn well take it to the bank that when I need another bike if Trek does not make a USA made frame I will not buy from them. I guess my choice will now be narrowed down to some small domestic makers. Since when does being concerned with my fellow Americans job prospects make me a twit. We will see how people like you feel once this country completes it's decent to 3rd world status and you and mostly everyone else can hardly afford to feed themselves let alone support your expensive bike hobby. I can never understand why it seems as though many threads lead to people like you coming on here and insulting and name calling. The OP posted a question that is completely benign and you have to turn around and insult others. I suppose that you are one of those that think we must learn to compete with Chinese slave labor also. Fine, why don't you go on over and work in their conditions with their pay.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
    FYI: If Made in USA means that much to you, plan for Trek to sell out in the next 2 years. All Taiwanese carbon frames were TCT and US built frames were OCLV. For 2012, all Trek carbon frames are OCLV. Yes, Taiwan now has the same carbon layup. I just saw this in the new 2012 Trek catalog. Safe to say that the days are numbered for the US built 6-Series. You turf twits can whine and complain all you want about a bike not made in the US, but the fact remains that the bike wasn't made in the US to please you. Business is business and you not buying that $6,000+ bike only means that someone else will. Now that Taiwan has been given the technology from Trek, they will be going the route that Cannondale did last year.
    The OCLV was added to all of the lines because Trek tests out the carbon they use in TCT facilities and it meets OCLV test standard. Trek now brands some of what was called previously TCT carbon into OCLV 300, 400, 500, 600, and 700. More of a decision on Treks to use the OCLV name than to use new carbon. The upper tier 600 is used on the 6.2, 6.5, while the 6.7SSL and 6.9 SSL get the 700 Series which includes grades of carbon that cannot be sourced in Non-NATO countries.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tellico climber View Post
    Turf twits? A little harsh dont you think. You can darn well take it to the bank that when I need another bike if Trek does not make a USA made frame I will not buy from them. I guess my choice will now be narrowed down to some small domestic makers. Since when does being concerned with my fellow Americans job prospects make me a twit. We will see how people like you feel once this country completes it's decent to 3rd world status and you and mostly everyone else can hardly afford to feed themselves let alone support your expensive bike hobby. I can never understand why it seems as though many threads lead to people like you coming on here and insulting and name calling. The OP posted a question that is completely benign and you have to turn around and insult others. I suppose that you are one of those that think we must learn to compete with Chinese slave labor also. Fine, why don't you go on over and work in their conditions with their pay.
    The reason for companies going elsewhere is not just greed on their part; it's greed on ours too. I stub my toe so I need a few weeks off and Worker's Comp Insurance will pay me for it. Sounds extreme, but common. We are always looking for quick cash and willing to sue. Sometimes it's legitimate but oftentimes it's absurd.

    Go back a few decades ago and you'll see that people had pride in what they did. The companies have always been about money, but the average American has grown soft. We as workers are also part of the problem. I apologize for insulting you or anyone else. That was immature and uncalled for on my part. It's just that I hate hearing people complain about companies not making stuff here. If we want it to get better, we have to change this nation. The companies that have left are (more than likely) not coming back. The question now is how are we gonna help the small companies get a foothold and grow bigger to help our economy? Also, how do we help upshoots succeed when they are being choked by regulations as well?

    If you look around, most small businesses are barely floating. I don't have the answers but operating costs in this country (and here in California in particular) are ridiculous. I want to buy a product made here as much as the next person, but I refuse to pay a premium for an item that isn't any higher in quality just to say it was made here. In the end, I work hard for my money and want it to go as far as it could, regardless of how much that company is making. Now I'm sounding like a politician so I will end it at that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
    The reason for companies going elsewhere is not just greed on their part; it's greed on ours too. I stub my toe so I need a few weeks off and Worker's Comp Insurance will pay me for it. Sounds extreme, but common. We are always looking for quick cash and willing to sue. Sometimes it's legitimate but oftentimes it's absurd.

    Go back a few decades ago and you'll see that people had pride in what they did. The companies have always been about money, but the average American has grown soft. We as workers are also part of the problem. I apologize for insulting you or anyone else. That was immature and uncalled for on my part. It's just that I hate hearing people complain about companies not making stuff here. If we want it to get better, we have to change this nation. The companies that have left are (more than likely) not coming back. The question now is how are we gonna help the small companies get a foothold and grow bigger to help our economy? Also, how do we help upshoots succeed when they are being choked by regulations as well?

    If you look around, most small businesses are barely floating. I don't have the answers but operating costs in this country (and here in California in particular) are ridiculous. I want to buy a product made here as much as the next person, but I refuse to pay a premium for an item that isn't any higher in quality just to say it was made here. In the end, I work hard for my money and want it to go as far as it could, regardless of how much that company is making. Now I'm sounding like a politician so I will end it at that.


    Fair enough, I agree with the majority of what you say. However, I am willing to pay more for products made here versus those made in places like China. I dont think our workforce should have to compete against the kind of conditions and pay that those workers endure. We are competing against an exploited workforce and would have to become exploited and enslaved ourselves to do so. Our country has no future if we no longer produce anything. True wealth is built upon making things and selling them to other people not by just moving money and assets around. It is also not make by the service industry. We have become a nation of consumers that dont produce anything other than soft financial,health,and other services. We are on the verge of collapse because we produce little and consume much. I understand a great number of people can only scrape by on a daily basis. I have sympathy for them and understand them buying the cheapest. However, I do have some extra disposable income that enables me to spend a little more for American made products so I feel an obligation to at least try to support the production of goods made here. What comes around goes around as they say. I apologize for this long post, this is just an important thing for me. Sorry to change the subject on this thread.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tellico climber View Post
    Fair enough, I agree with the majority of what you say. However, I am willing to pay more for products made here versus those made in places like China. I dont think our workforce should have to compete against the kind of conditions and pay that those workers endure. We are competing against an exploited workforce and would have to become exploited and enslaved ourselves to do so. Our country has no future if we no longer produce anything. True wealth is built upon making things and selling them to other people not by just moving money and assets around. It is also not make by the service industry. We have become a nation of consumers that dont produce anything other than soft financial,health,and other services. We are on the verge of collapse because we produce little and consume much. I understand a great number of people can only scrape by on a daily basis. I have sympathy for them and understand them buying the cheapest. However, I do have some extra disposable income that enables me to spend a little more for American made products so I feel an obligation to at least try to support the production of goods made here. What comes around goes around as they say. I apologize for this long post, this is just an important thing for me. Sorry to change the subject on this thread.
    Everything comes full circle. So yes Trek may well one day sell their operations and lay off all their workers and once again one or two men walk away with all the loot.

    As for the other guy making the comment that Americans have grown soft. Sure we're softer than the Chinese....we like having clean water to drink, like having all our limbs, like not having hepatitis from all the toxic waste in our food supplies. China isn't tough or hard.....they're just dumb and really slow to catch on to the big picture.

    As for the American worker, he's lost his faith in upper management. Of course he/she isn't going to bust their arse when they know their pink slip is in the mail the second the upper crust decides to initiate their exit plan.

    I own several American made bikes, but I expect they'll be museum pieces in about 10 years.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by heathb View Post
    Everything comes full circle. So yes Trek may well one day sell their operations and lay off all their workers and once again one or two men walk away with all the loot.

    As for the other guy making the comment that Americans have grown soft. Sure we're softer than the Chinese....we like having clean water to drink, like having all our limbs, like not having hepatitis from all the toxic waste in our food supplies. China isn't tough or hard.....they're just dumb and really slow to catch on to the big picture.

    As for the American worker, he's lost his faith in upper management. Of course he/she isn't going to bust their arse when they know their pink slip is in the mail the second the upper crust decides to initiate their exit plan.

    I own several American made bikes, but I expect they'll be museum pieces in about 10 years.
    What I was talking about when I said went soft is compared to the American worker from 30-40 years ago. The companies ahave not changed. They've always been about money. Isn't that why they are in business? I'm talking about the worker that stubs his toe or other minor stuff that needs time off. We have grown soft and we embrace it. No wonder the old guys frown on us.

    China, on the other hand, must be doing pretty well, considering the average factory worker is able to save 40% of their income. People making $80,000 a year can't do that here in the States. Also, you generalized China. In the city, they don't deal with the conditions you are talking about. Those people aren't dumb. To say that is like saying most of the people in the world are dumb. Just because they don't live up to your expectations of what life should be like, doesn't make them dumb nor does it make your life any better. They also don't have an obesity problem either. Not just because they aren't well fed, but because they dion't jump in their car to go two blocks to the store. Even better, many don't even own a car. Besides, most of those workers in China are college-educated. I don't know if the same can be said for here.

    Let's just be honest , anyone can learn to built bike frames and anyone can be very good at it if they have the passion and desire to do it. We all start at the same point in life and we learn how life works. The difference is that some are better than others at stuff. I'm sure if Ernesto Colnago or David Lynskey taught you or I how to build bikes, we'd be making some killer machines right now.
    Last edited by terbennett; 09-03-2011 at 07:39 AM.

  15. #15
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    New Jamis Xenith SL amazingly smooth, yet super stiff. Looks great, what else would one want?

    Onto the second part of this thread is the disgusting aspect of corporate profits, yes offshore to make more, but do not pass any of the savings to the customer, in scale to the profits being made, and the fact that the wage difference between the CEO's and the worker is not of this earth. For instance, the CEO of one of the banks took 685 million in bonus $, yes, you read it correctly, and 2 months later the bank folded and took taxpayer money for the bailout. so, please save the economics analysis for the rank amateurs...;-)

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