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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Basically what I'm seeing is a mismatch.

    What is accepted vs. what works.

    It's accepted to wear an aero helmet, have aero wheels and an aero frame. Maybe even considered standard equipment now a days.

    However it's not not accepted to wear a skinsuit. It's not widely accepted to be fitted for aerodynamics on a road bike either. How many people ride setups like Adam Hansen? Who comes out of a fit session like that? Essentially trying to adopt a TT position on a road bike is not an accepted practice for everyday riding.

    However, by far, by a long shot, the two most important things are that TT like position and a skinsuit. Together they trump everything else combined very easily.

    So it's accepted to pursue ($$$$$) marginal gains while ignoring ($) major gains.
    Pretty on point if you ask me.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  2. #27
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    And aggressive aero position is much harder to live with day to day unless you are very young, fit, flexible, etc.

    The gear is easy to buy and you gain benefit pretty much regardless of rider position. I agree that an aero position is worthwhile. But anyone fitting and claiming to do so for aero is guessing unless they use a wind tunnel.

    Some things like height and width are oversimplified as goals. Often, people ignore the sacrifices made in comfort, power and such that actually end up costing speed at the expense of aero goals.
    Last edited by Chader09; 04-27-2017 at 10:47 AM.

  3. #28
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    At the end of the day, yes, to some degree, aero positioning helps a rider. It is the biggest bang for the buck when it comes to cheating the wind. How much it helps each individual rider depends on whether they take the time to work on finding an aero position that they can comfortably maintain for extended periods of time. I think we have established that at this point. I think the question on the table now is are any of the bikes discussed in the article (or not) better at maximizing one's aero gains? How relevant are the differences that exist between aero bikes and/aero and traditional road bikes when it comes to maximizing and maintaining generated speed, etc.?
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  4. #29
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    FWIW, it looks like Ridley just took a big leap forward in the cycling aerodynamics arm race.

    What's it really like inside a state-of-the-art cycling wind tunnel? - Cycling Weekly
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  5. #30
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    Just like the chain lube talk, this pops up time and time again, at the beginning of road cycling season. Some marketing tactic...

  6. #31
    Not a climber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    FWIW, it looks like Ridley just took a big leap forward in the cycling aerodynamics arm race.

    What's it really like inside a state-of-the-art cycling wind tunnel? - Cycling Weekly
    How is that any different than the Specialized "win tunnel" that they've had for a few years now?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    How is that any different than the Specialized "win tunnel" that they've had for a few years now?
    I never said it was. It's a big step for them though.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    FWIW, it looks like Ridley just took a big leap forward in the cycling aerodynamics arm race.
    As well as presenting results in the control room, they are projected in front of the rider, so that they can immediately see the impact of position changes on drag and power output.
    I don't know if this is the norm but if I was on the bike, I'd really like to be able to see instantaneous results (vs control room person watching display & relaying the info).
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Add 100 watts for the idiot that buys an "aero bike" with disc brakes.
    I'm not sure the idiocy is so obvious. While it's almost impossible to directly compare the aero aspects of rim and disc brakes because the two braking styles demand slightly different bike and wheel designs, at least some research has found no significant aero disadvantage to discs.

    Disc and Rim Brake Aero Drag - Slowtwitch.com

    Aerodynamics can be weird and counter-intuitive. Sometimes things that seem like an obvious disadvantage aren't. One thing that is pretty clear is that the riding position is by far the most important aspect of cycling aerodynamics- far more than frames, wheels, or brake type used. Some people may want the position of an aero bike with the braking confidence of a disc.
    Last edited by nealric; 05-01-2017 at 08:11 AM.

  10. #35
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    Blarg. I ignore these "tests".

    1. Drag is the same in hoods and drops for most of the bikes? BS. This makes me question the entire test.
    2. Minute variations in position could easily account for the noise seen between the top four bikes.
    3. No one rides around at 29 mph. As air resistance increases exponentially the supposed "aero benefit" of an "aero frame" would be entirely negligible at a more normal speed. This is particularly true in an environment like a race or a group ride where you ride in disturbed air.
    4. Power meters are hardly perfect. That combined with any of the above issues indicates a huge margin of error in this test. This isn't even mentioned.

  11. #36
    flinty-eyed moderator
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    this thread is hilarious
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    Blarg. I ignore these "tests".
    ...
    3. No one rides around at 29 mph. As air resistance increases exponentially the supposed "aero benefit" of an "aero frame" would be entirely negligible at a more normal speed. This is particularly true in an environment like a race or a group ride where you ride in disturbed air.
    ....
    Well, not so. This is a "distance/rate/time" class of problem.
    As explained here,
    https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineeri...vs-fast-riders
    over a fixed distance, a slower rider actually gains more time than a faster ride.
    But this is not likely to be significant factor except in a TT or break away.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    3. No one rides around at 29 mph. As air resistance increases exponentially the supposed "aero benefit" of an "aero frame" would be entirely negligible at a more normal speed. This is particularly true in an environment like a race or a group ride where you ride in disturbed air.
    You really shouldn't use big words until you know what they mean.

  14. #39
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    The fit discussion always comes into these gear comparisons, but it's a separate variable. Whether or not you can oragami-fold yourself into a pedaling bullet, you must still drag all of your equipment through the atmosphere.

    Also, the speeds are relative. While pedaling along at 29mph is rare, fighting for 18-20mph into a 10mph headwind is fairly common. Air speed, not ground speed..

  15. #40
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    "The other 2 were in pretty baggy clothes and had the aero covers over their shoes. HUGH??? That really got me....aero covers on your shoes but baggy clothes?"

    I often wear tight fitting shoe covers to keep my feet warm and/or dry in iffy weather. IT has nothing to do with being aero, everything to do with comfort during the ride. Though my clothing isn't really baggy (nor a super tight fit - just your normal, average road togs).
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  16. #41
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    Has it ever occurred to you that these people are not fussed about being as aero as possible all the time and might have bought that bike with their money because they liked it?
    I think the Specialized Venge Vias looks amazing. But I'm not Mark Cavendish. So does that mean I must buy a poop bike instead?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennyC View Post
    But I'm not Mark Cavendish. So does that mean I must buy a poop bike instead?
    Just curious, what constitutes a poop bike?

  18. #43
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    A bike that doesn't have random strangers from the internet thinking they have the right to tell you what to spend your own money on.

    Its your money, buy whatever bike you like. Your choice of bike has nothing to do with anyone else.

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