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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    I disagree. The presence of a press fit BB is an automatic deal killer for me on any frame. It's one of the first things I check when considering a frame. Lots of people would say the same.
    I don't think he is disagreeing with the sentiment. I think he is saying if you go that route (threaded), your options are becoming more limited all of the time.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    I don't think he is disagreeing with the sentiment. I think he is saying if you go that route (threaded), your options are becoming more limited all of the time.
    I interpreted his post as saying that allowing a preference for a threaded bottom bracket to guide your choice of frames was "letting the tail wag the dog", i.e. letting something relatively minor distract your decision. My point is that to me a press fit BB isn't a minor negative on a frame, it's a major negative.

    Also, I would say we've reached peak press fit. Several brands (Niner, Raleigh) have started to go back to threaded, especially in gravel bikes and MTBs. Others (Santa Cruz, Pinarello) never went press fit. I think a return to threaded is gathering steam.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    I would say we've reached peak press fit.
    I concur.

    I've been doing some preliminarily planning for N+1, and I'd really like to avoid press-fit or BB30x BBs. Threaded bottom brackets are easy to work on, don't require special tools, don't creak, are cheap to replace, and the list goes on. And it seems like a lot of manufacturers are coming round to the position that the cons outweigh the pros. As has been mentioned already in this thread, I think, the *newest* idea out there in BB's, T47, is actually the old idea of threaded, combined with greater width.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    I interpreted his post as saying that allowing a preference for a threaded bottom bracket to guide your choice of frames was "letting the tail wag the dog", i.e. letting something relatively minor distract your decision. My point is that to me a press fit BB isn't a minor negative on a frame, it's a major negative.

    Also, I would say we've reached peak press fit. Several brands (Niner, Raleigh) have started to go back to threaded, especially in gravel bikes and MTBs. Others (Santa Cruz, Pinarello) never went press fit. I think a return to threaded is gathering steam.
    OP's major consideration was to get the fit right for himself, preferably in a carbon frame, with the threaded BB being a major wish list item too. And I think we can all agree that good fit is the most important thing.

    Let me make a few observations:

    1. Threaded BB's can creak too. I know.

    2. Threaded BB's in a carbon frame means a bonded in alloy insert. Bonded alloy inserts can come loose. This I know too.

    3. There are now multiple good, solid choices for BB's to fit into pressfit frames that allow one to run any crankset.

    So, perhaps a few years ago I would have agreed more strongly with the "threaded only" crowd, but now I'm saying that with all the good BB options available for pressfit, it really has become a minor factor - especially when it comes to carbon frames.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    1. Threaded BB's can creak too. I know.

    2. Threaded BB's in a carbon frame means a bonded in alloy insert. Bonded alloy inserts can come loose. This I know too.

    3. There are now multiple good, solid choices for BB's to fit into pressfit frames that allow one to run any crankset.
    These are very good points. I will take them on board in considering a press-fit BB in my next bike.

    From what I've read, solutions like the Praxis conversion BB are really excellent. But from what I can tell, they still have one major drawback, which is that the Praxis BB costs $75, while a new Shimano ultegra BB can be had for less than $25.

    (Am I right that if the bearings wear in your Praxis conversion BB you simply have to buy a whole new Praxis BB?)

    I made the mistake of buying a CAAD12 frame with a BB30a BB. There are no good solutions there: you either press in the BB30 bearings or you are out of luck.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
    These are very good points. I will take them on board in considering a press-fit BB in my next bike.

    From what I've read, solutions like the Praxis conversion BB are really excellent. But from what I can tell, they still have one major drawback, which is that the Praxis BB costs $75, while a new Shimano ultegra BB can be had for less than $25.

    (Am I right that if the bearings wear in your Praxis conversion BB you simply have to buy a whole new Praxis BB?)

    I made the mistake of buying a CAAD12 frame with a BB30a BB. There are no good solutions there: you either press in the BB30 bearings or you are out of luck.
    You are right. The "proprietary" "standards" like BBright and BB30a make things a lot more complicated. I'd definitely avoid these if I were looking for an easily adaptable frame.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    1. Threaded BB's can creak too. I know.
    You bet! Same here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    2. Threaded BB's in a carbon frame means a bonded in alloy insert. Bonded alloy inserts can come loose. This I know too.
    Never had this happen to me, but YIKES!

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    3. There are now multiple good, solid choices for BB's to fit into pressfit frames that allow one to run any crankset.
    This too. Praxis and Wheels Manufacturing to name two. The former will cost you more, the latter works just fine for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    So, perhaps a few years ago I would have agreed more strongly with the "threaded only" crowd, but now I'm saying that with all the good BB options available for pressfit, it really has become a minor factor - especially when it comes to carbon frames.
    Very minor. This is probably the least of things I would fret over on a new bike purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    You are right. The "proprietary" "standards" like BBright and BB30a make things a lot more complicated. I'd definitely avoid these if I were looking for an easily adaptable frame.
    There are plenty of adapters for these too. I know. No worries.

    https://www.backcountry.com/wheels-m...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds
    Last edited by Lombard; 06-01-2017 at 05:18 AM.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    There are plenty of adapters for these too. I know. No worries.

    https://www.backcountry.com/wheels-m...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds
    Yes I saw that when I was writing my response.

    There is a difference between an adapter that continues to use the existing BB30 bearings, and a complete BB that replaces them.

    The former may work fine for some but inherently will have the potential problems of any pressfit bearing system.

    I'd prefer a threaded together BB that replaces a BB30 or PF30 setup.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    The former may work fine for some but inherently will have the potential problems of any pressfit bearing system.

    I'd prefer a threaded together BB that replaces a BB30 or PF30 setup.

    So far, no problems with mine yet - knock on carbon.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  10. #35
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    There are no adapters for BB30a.

    And as bikerjulio points out, the adapters for BB30 are a very different solution than the full conversion systems that are available.

    I've ridden with too many people with bearings pressed into their frames directly (press-fit BB's that haven't been converted) who had creaky/squeeky/noisy bottom brackets, and I've heard too many horror stories about trying 9 different things over 6 months to try to make the noise go away.

    Perhaps this is also an issue where there is a divergence between those who have an LBS they trust to do their wrenching and those who do it themselves. I do all the work on all the bikes in my household, and I trust threaded BB's and trust my ability to make them work right. When I read about what is involved with BB's with bearings pressed into the frame, and all the ways it can go wrong...I get really nervous.

  11. #36
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    Interesting that you're talking about this. I used to want threaded fit and for the most part prefer it too. However, my 2015 Cannondale CAAD10 has BB30 and it has never given me an issue. This is my second season racing on it and I have not even touched the bottom bracket on it since I purchased it February of 2015. 22 races and it has never been opened up. My LBS told me not to touch it. It spins superbly. My Evo is running a Praxxis with DA 9000 crank and I had an issue with that one initially but it has been trouble free too.
    Last edited by terbennett; 06-13-2017 at 10:28 AM.

  12. #37
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    My main reason for not going PressFit is my wish to be able to service my bike without external help or having to spend a squillion on proprietary tools.

    I'm aware a lot of cyclists simply rely on external help, and if it's fine for them, I'm certainly not going to hold a gun to their head to change their ways, but it's a non-negotiable point for me.

    The alternative Bottom Brackets I've seen are several times more expensive than a run-of-the-mill BB, a problem which is compounded by their lack of flexibility (whenever you buy one you're tied to a combination of BB shell/crankset standard; if switching from SRAM to Shimano, you have to buy a new one) and still often need either a press or other proprietary tools. To quote a British idiom Liversedge used not so long ago, they seem like cutting one's own nose for spiting bike makers.

    /end semi-rant

    I've run into a snag, anyway, and believe it or not: it's not the bottom bracket! rather the geometry. Most bikes I've seen so far roughly match one of these three options:

    "middle-of-the-road road bike geometry" e.g. 540/380
    "aero road" e.g. 515-525/385-390
    "our engineers hypothesized you can't bend forward if your life depended on it" 570-580/370-375

    With some occasional in-between. I'm tempted to go with middle-of-the-road geometry, however the difference wrt the bike I'm currently riding (520/400) isn't so large, that I'm wondering whether it's worth the price of admission in the first place.

    In fact, I've been considering disc frames too, with an eye towards 60-70mm/17d stems, which would look goofy but probably work.

    The worst thing that has happened to me, though, is that going through this process has made me look with desire at aero road frames the likes of the S5 and Venge.
    Last edited by oct3; 06-03-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by oct3 View Post
    My main reason for not going PressFit is my wish to be able to service my bike without external help or having to spend a squillion on proprietary tools.

    I'm aware a lot of cyclists simply rely on external help, and if it's fine for them, I'm certainly not going to hold a gun to their head to change their ways, but it's a non-negotiable point for me.

    The alternative Bottom Brackets I've seen are several times more expensive than a run-of-the-mill BB, a problem which is compounded by their lack of flexibility (whenever you buy one you're tied to a combination of BB shell/crankset standard; if switching from SRAM to Shimano, you have to buy a new one) and still often need either a press or other proprietary tools. To quote a British idiom Liversedge used not so long ago, they seem like cutting one's own nose for spiting bike makers.

    /end semi-rant

    I've run into a snag, anyway, and believe it or not: it's not the bottom bracket! rather the geometry. Most bikes I've seen so far roughly match one of these three options:

    "middle-of-the-road road bike geometry" e.g. 540/380
    "aero road" e.g. 515-525/385-390
    "our engineers hypothesized you can't bend forward if your life depended on it" 570-580/370-375

    With some occasional in-between. I'm tempted to go with middle-of-the-road geometry, however the difference wrt the bike I'm currently riding (520/400) isn't so large, that I'm wondering whether it's worth the price of admission in the first place.

    In fact, I've been considering disc frames too, with an eye towards 60-70mm/17d stems, which would look goofy but probably work.

    The worst thing that has happened to me, though, is that going through this process has made me look with desire at aero road frames the likes of the S5 and Venge.
    I say do what makes you happy at the end of the day. I haven't seen too many aero bikes with threaded bottom brackets outside of the pricier Italian models like the Pinarello Dogma F8, F10, and Gan. You can get a Gan for around $2k-$2500 though. There are a couple of really affordable aero bikes on the market though, like the Fuji Transonic 2.8 that Performance sells and the Specialized Allez Sprint, which is great. Both are press fit though. The Fuji does come with a praxis unit installed though I believe, so you may want to check that one out.
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 06-03-2017 at 04:01 PM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  14. #39
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    Fuji Bikes - Transonic

    I think the cheapest I have seen one sold is right around $1000, but you can probably find some on eBay, closeout sales, and used on RBR, etc. as well.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  15. #40
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    Fuji seems a US-only brand, but thanks for the suggestion.

    At the end of the day, the question is what I can ride today comfortably: I miss 3+ hours rides and without those there's no climbing whatsoever for me.

    By accepting some ..compromise, I've managed to lower my saddle; 710 does seem a little too low, raising it a few millimeters, it does feel much better; so much, actually, that I'm left wondering whether, coincidentally, I've had some minor break through off the bike.

    For the stem, however, there is no going around replacing it; unfortunately 17d stems seem to be much less common and often way more expensive than the conventional 6d ones.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by oct3 View Post
    Fuji seems a US-only brand, but thanks for the suggestion.

    At the end of the day, the question is what I can ride today comfortably: I miss 3+ hours rides and without those there's no climbing whatsoever for me.

    By accepting some ..compromise, I've managed to lower my saddle; 710 does seem a little too low, raising it a few millimeters, it does feel much better; so much, actually, that I'm left wondering whether, coincidentally, I've had some minor break through off the bike.

    For the stem, however, there is no going around replacing it; unfortunately 17d stems seem to be much less common and often way more expensive than the conventional 6d ones.
    I am not sure where you are, but they have dealers in Europe and Asia for sure. They are actually an Asian company with the U.S. as a major hub. The bikes are raced by conti team Caja Rujal.

    https://www.evanscycles.com/fuji_b
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  17. #42
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    And since you are in Europe and like to work on your own bikes, Canyon does have some relatively affordable versions of the Endurace if you want to mix your aero with your comfortable geometry. This bike has been receiving rave reviews all year long.

    https://www.canyon.com/en/road/endur...l-disc-me.html

    https://www.canyon.com/en/road/endur...ce-cf-7-0.html
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  18. #43
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    Good catch, however Evans won't ship it. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Fuji brand (as opposed to the brand's holder) has some history concerning the usage rights of the brand outside of the US.

    Canyon just doesn't seem good value for the money - €1500 for a frameset? and also forced to make a commitment to either mechanical or electronic shifting? plenty of "Di2 ready" frames around.

    I wonder what the industrial cost for a carbon frameset is. I wouldn't be surprised if it were around $100.

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