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  1. #1
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    bike assembly....putting carbon seatpost into titanium frame, please help

    I just received my new Litespeed Tuscany from Colorado Cyclist today. Assembling the bike now, but I have a question. I have never owned a ti frame or carbon seatpost before. Do I put any lube, grease, anything on the seatpost when inserting it into the frame ??? Please help, I want to ride it in the morning. Also, regarding how tight the seatpost clamp bolt should be.....www.fullspeedahead.com states 143 inch pounds for my SLK seatpost. I don't have a torque wrench........any advice on that ????

    Thanks,
    Doug

  2. #2
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    No grease on carbon posts. Doesn't matter if it's Ti, Steel, Alu, etc. Really glossy finished posts can slip, if it does wipe it down with 400grit sandpaper or use something like Tacx dynamic assembly paste. I'd try it dry first and more than likely you'll be fine.

    Tightening...without a torque wrench here's what I do. You've got an L-shaped allen wrench, right? Insert it so that you're using the small arm to tighten with. Tighten it as hard as you can using only this small arm as your lever. I've done this on my bikes with carbon posts and it has worked fine. BUT..you might have a stronger grip than me, so be careful. Don't be scared of carbon, just use a little common sense and some caution and you'll be fine.

    Post some pics when you get it done! Ride reports are good too. Enjoy!

  3. #3
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    No need since the surface is metal to carbon. You can tighten it without the use of a torque wrench. Place a tape on the post to serve as a marker so you could see if it slips while you ride your bike. Don't worry carbon does not break that easy.

  4. #4
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    the advice I was given (here on RBR?)

    and it has worked for me so far is to use your single index finger only to tighten seat post clamp. Then you can press as hard as your single index finger can and it seems to work - post does not slip and so far i have not crushed carbon post or carbon seat tube.

  5. #5
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    Buy a torque wrench for the future! It's a must have when working regularly on a bicycle. Go easy on tightening the bolt and to make sure it doesn't slip use hairspray on the post. Hopefully your wife has some. Carry an allen key with on the ride in case it does slip. It sucks to have ro ride with your saddle too low. The Tacx Dynamic paste is what I use and the best thing about it is that it grips so well it allows you to use less torque without any slipage.

    Let us know how your first ride goes.
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  6. #6
    wim
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    If you do get a torque wrench, don't tighten the seat post binder bolt to 143 inch-pound (16.2 Nm). That FSA spec is for the saddle rail clamp bolt under the saddle, not the seat post binder bolt.

    I'm guessing the seat post binder bolt is an M5, which you can tighten to about 50 inch-pound (6 Nm). As others have said, you don't need a torque wench if you use good judgement and a short L-wrench.

  7. #7
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    If you have a ti frame and are installing quality components (In this case a carbon seatpost) there's no excuse not to have a torque wrench, so get one and use it on all the bolts!!!

    Also, be sure to periodically remove, inspect, clean (Both the seatpost & the inside of the seat-tube), and reinstall the seatpost.

  8. #8
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    Yes, I am buying a torque wrench

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanmoretime
    Buy a torque wrench for the future! It's a must have when working regularly on a bicycle. Go easy on tightening the bolt and to make sure it doesn't slip use hairspray on the post. Hopefully your wife has some. Carry an allen key with on the ride in case it does slip. It sucks to have ro ride with your saddle too low. The Tacx Dynamic paste is what I use and the best thing about it is that it grips so well it allows you to use less torque without any slipage.

    Let us know how your first ride goes.
    I tightened it using the short end of the allen wrench, but it slid down noticeably in first 10-15 miles, so I moved it up, and tightened it a little more with the long end. I rode a total of 40 miles and it didn't move much after that, but a little. I will try the hairspray tip. Overall, the ride didn't go too good. When it was assembled, the mechanic(s) made a few goofs, I would expect something, but these were glaring. After about 3 miles of fairly easy flat / downgrade pedalling, I hit a moderate hill (only have short, sometimes steep, hills in Kansas), and the chain kept skipping on the cogs, at first I thought it was trying to shift. So I played with derailleur adjustments, no better. After further examination, found (the connecting pin) a link that wouldn't straighten out, and if pedal backwards it would always catch in the derailleur (no, I don't pedal backwards when I ride, just forwards ). Tried pivoting the link as far as it would go, both ways, and flexing the chain sideways to loosen it up. Was just fine for maybe the next 20 miles or so. Last 15 miles were hell, stopped to mess with it maybe 10 times, still an issue at ride's end. That wasn't all, when in the big ring (the mid point position of the DA front derailleur), the chain would rub on the inside of the derailleur cage if pedalling at any intensity in the 3 biggest cogs. Using the barrel adjustment didn't make enough difference in position to stop the (really noisy) chain rub. And would rub some in the 4th largest as well, if standing and putting some effort into it (at the times the chain wasn't skipping). Those 3 things were the major issues, though the shifter/brake handles weren't mounted in the same place, the stem wasn't straight, and the handlebar tape (the shop's recommendation) is awful, slippery, thin, don't like the look. I will be pulling it off tomorrow and trash canning it. There is something to be said in buying from a LBS, in the aspect of getting the kinks out. I can't realistically ship it back to the shop for them to fix it. I am sure all this can be worked out, just more hitches than I would have expected, most of it just seems like hasty or sloppy wrenching in the build up.

    Doug



    Doug
    Last edited by DBtheCyclist; 01-08-2007 at 11:35 AM.

  9. #9
    titanium junkie
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    A torque wrench is a tool most home mechanics should have but you also need to learn how to tighten a certain items on the bike manually without a torque wrench. I have three torque wrenches in different sizes for different applications but seldom use them. Usually you do not have a torque wrench with you while on the road so it is one of the reasons why you need to learn to tighten a certain items without a torque wrench. Also, a torque wrench needs predioctic calibration to stay accurate so you just cannot depend on it too much without knowing it's accuracy. Regardless, a torque wrench is a good tool to have for a peace of mind wrenching.

  10. #10
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    DBthecyclist, you've just discovered why I do all my own wrenching.

    Start buying up them nice blue-handled Park tools and a Zinn or Park primer and learn how to fix you bike yourself. It's a lot of fun and I like the peace of mind knowing that everything has been done properly. Not to mention the money and time you'll save paying a shop to do it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TACSTS
    DBthecyclist, you've just discovered why I do all my own wrenching.

    Start buying up them nice blue-handled Park tools and a Zinn or Park primer and learn how to fix you bike yourself. It's a lot of fun and I like the peace of mind knowing that everything has been done properly. Not to mention the money and time you'll save paying a shop to do it.
    Agreed! Other than one wheelset I had built, I usually build my own wheels, I do all of my own work and bike building. This way I know it was done correctly and don't have to worry about major issues after a new build up.

    Tigoat - In my 36 years of cycling I have never had something come loose that was properly torqued with the fastner lubed to achieve the correct torque value.
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  12. #12
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    Tools and wrenching and a sticking link on chain

    Quote Originally Posted by TACSTS
    DBthecyclist, you've just discovered why I do all my own wrenching.

    Start buying up them nice blue-handled Park tools and a Zinn or Park primer and learn how to fix you bike yourself. It's a lot of fun and I like the peace of mind knowing that everything has been done properly. Not to mention the money and time you'll save paying a shop to do it.
    I have some tools, acquire one now and then, usually to do something in particular. I am comfortable doing some things (chain, cogs, seats, posts, bars, stems, cranks (though not sure about DA 10, on my new Litespeed), fine derailleur adjustments, tires, bar tape, computers -- I think that about covers it. Things I am not comfortable with is cabling, bearings, well that is about it. Never built a bike complete before, just a lot of parts swapping over the years, on 2 bikes. The Tuscany came to me built, from Co Cyclist, however there are some issues to take care of. One being, the connecting link sticks, it doesn't straighten out, and it (on the first ride yesterday) caused the chain to skip repeated on the rear cogs, if applying any force at all. I flexed the chain sideways, which seemed to help at times, then it would stick yet again.

    Anyone have any good ideas to get a very stickly link to free up ?

    Thanks,
    Doug

  13. #13
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    Why not call CC about this stuff?

  14. #14
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    Contacting Colorado Cyclist

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    Why not call CC about this stuff?
    Already have, sent email, got reply yesterday. Some things they don't agree with my viewpoint, others they do. Said they would send me another chain if I can't clear it up. Most everything is resolvable, however I must do it, or insist that I ship the bike back, and that really isn't something I would consider, unless the frame came damaged or something else really, really serious. I am just looking at this things that basically I need to resolve, a peril in buying a bike mail order, I guess.

    Basically, I need to free up the binding link, adjust the front derailleur (might need to take the cable loose, CC suggest the barrel adjuster, however the chain is rubbing on cage when in 4 largest rear cogs (and big ring), don't know if the barrel adjuster can move it that much), unwrap the bar (one side) to move one shifter to match the other, and either double wrap (I have big hands, use to really thick tape) or replace the tape wth thicker tape. I followed their suggestion to build it with Douglas two tone tape, I hate most everything about it, appearance, it is slippery, it is thin. Just don't like it.

    Doug

  15. #15
    la dolce vita
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    Kink and tape

    Check this out for the kink. You'll need a chain tool if you don't already have one.
    http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=53

    For the bars, I also like a thicker bar tape and use Torelli Moda Chunky. I think they have dozens of colors. Try these guys out to order online:
    http://www.schwabcycles.com/Qstore/Q...C01161378141C1

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBtheCyclist
    Already have, sent email, got reply yesterday. Some things they don't agree with my viewpoint, others they do. Said they would send me another chain if I can't clear it up. Most everything is resolvable, however I must do it, or insist that I ship the bike back, and that really isn't something I would consider, unless the frame came damaged or something else really, really serious. I am just looking at this things that basically I need to resolve, a peril in buying a bike mail order, I guess.

    Basically, I need to free up the binding link, adjust the front derailleur (might need to take the cable loose, CC suggest the barrel adjuster, however the chain is rubbing on cage when in 4 largest rear cogs (and big ring), don't know if the barrel adjuster can move it that much), unwrap the bar (one side) to move one shifter to match the other, and either double wrap (I have big hands, use to really thick tape) or replace the tape wth thicker tape. I followed their suggestion to build it with Douglas two tone tape, I hate most everything about it, appearance, it is slippery, it is thin. Just don't like it.

    Doug
    Well, that's pretty lame on CC's part, but I guess it should be expected these days. You should take it to the LBS, have them do it, and then send CC the bill. And they should pay it, gladly. BUT, you should also learn to do this kind of stuff yourself.

  17. #17
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    Correcting the issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    Well, that's pretty lame on CC's part, but I guess it should be expected these days. You should take it to the LBS, have them do it, and then send CC the bill. And they should pay it, gladly. BUT, you should also learn to do this kind of stuff yourself.
    I can do it myself, just a pain in the behind to have to. Point is, that on a $4000+ bicycle, I would expect it to be assembled properly, just seems like they threw it together and shipped it, without taking enough time and care to make sure everything was done correctly. After all, I ordered it 5 pm Tuesday, and when I emailed the salesman mid afternoon (or maybe it was earlier) on Wednesday wanting to upgrade the bars, I was told it already went to the shop, to late to make any changes. I was then told at 3 pm Wednesday that it was done, boxed, and would ship out that day. Good that they did it quick, as I got it Friday (only 3 days after the order was placed) and rode it Saturday, however maybe not so good that it was put together that fast. I am not very paitent when it comes to waiting for something I have purchased mail order or the web (just like a kid in the candy store, still, at age 48, helps keep me young !!!). The box had my name on it, and "Rush".................really, there was no rush, I would rather they had taken 2 days and checked it out, made sure it was right, and saved me the hassles.

    Doug
    Last edited by DBtheCyclist; 01-08-2007 at 11:49 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBtheCyclist
    I can do it myself, just a pain in the behind to have to. Point is, that on a $4000+ bicycle, I would expect it to be assembled properly, just seems like they threw it together and shipped it, without taking enough time and care to make sure everything was done correctly. After all, I ordered it 5 pm Tuesday, and when I emailed the salesman mid afternoon (or maybe it was earlier) on Wednesday wanting to upgrade the bars, I was told it already went to the shop, to late to make any changes. I was then told at 3 pm Wednesday that it was done, boxed, and would ship out that day. Good that they did it quick, I rode got it Friday (only 3 days after the order was placed) and rode it Saturday, however maybe not so good that it was put together that fast. The box had my name on it, and "Rush".................really, there was no rush, I would rather they had taken 2 days and checked it out, made sure it was right.

    Doug
    In reality those items you've mentioned would take someone experienced less than five minutes to fix. But it makes me wonder--did they check to make sure the frame was straight? Did they adjust the hubs? True the wheels? Is everyting greased and torqued properly? Etc., etc. My guess is no... And yes, for $4k, they could have done a lot better.

    So how does it fit?

  19. #19
    titanium junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juanmoretime
    Tigoat - In my 36 years of cycling I have never had something come loose that was properly torqued with the fastner lubed to achieve the correct torque value.
    J-

    I know what you are saying because I have been wrenching all my life too and my experience is not only limited to working on a bicycle but also on a lot of other motorized vehicles as well. I have seen many instances where a properly torqued (with a torque wrench) fastener not being tight enough. For this reason, every time I use my torque wrench, I usually go over it again with a regular socket wrench to make sure everything is tight to my liking. Of course, you donít want to over tighten it so much that you will be stripping the threads. I recall having done that a couple of times in my early wienie years of wrenching but have not had striped a bolt or a nut for as long as I can remember. I have also seen a fastener stripped long after it was tightened and this is not uncommon where there is a lot of heat built-up around the fastener like the engine of a car. Anyhow, some torque wrenches are just not very accurate out of the box so if one is to be had then make sure it is a high quality one. Thanks,

  20. #20
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    Good tools

    Quote Originally Posted by tigoat
    J-

    I know what you are saying because I have been wrenching all my life too and my experience is not only limited to working on a bicycle but also on a lot of other motorized vehicles as well. I have seen many instances where a properly torqued (with a torque wrench) fastener not being tight enough. For this reason, every time I use my torque wrench, I usually go over it again with a regular socket wrench to make sure everything is tight to my liking. Of course, you donít want to over tighten it so much that you will be stripping the threads. I recall having done that a couple of times in my early wienie years of wrenching but have not had striped a bolt or a nut for as long as I can remember. I have also seen a fastener stripped long after it was tightened and this is not uncommon where there is a lot of heat built-up around the fastener like the engine of a car. Anyhow, some torque wrenches are just not very accurate out of the box so if one is to be had then make sure it is a high quality one. Thanks,
    I am going to order a Park TW-1 and TW-2 today. I used to be into wild street cars, once upon a time on the final torquing of a cylinder head, went to 3 diff foot pounds of torque on each bolt, can't remember how many, like 15 to 20, first to 35, then to 50, then to 65. Well, last bolt, going from 50 to 65, pulled the threads out of the engine block. BIG PAIN, REALLY BIG PAIN. From what I have learned in the last week, and in the few days since I acquired the Tuscany, with some (not everything) carbon parts, and carbon fork, getting the proper torque, not too tight, not too loose, is quite important.

    Doug

  21. #21
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    I cracked a seatpost binder bolt once by over-tightening and I didn't even feel like I was pushing that hard. I'm not that strong either. So good pointers here about not over tightening.

  22. #22
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    Fit on the Tuscany, and overall assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    In reality those items you've mentioned would take someone experienced less than five minutes to fix. But it makes me wonder--did they check to make sure the frame was straight? Did they adjust the hubs? True the wheels? Is everyting greased and torqued properly? Etc., etc. My guess is no... And yes, for $4k, they could have done a lot better.

    So how does it fit?
    I certainly don't feel that CC isn't a reputable dealer, and maybe what I found isn't unreasonable for a new build, however considering that once they ship it they probably won't deal with it, hands on, again, in my opinion they should be more diligent in making sure assembly and adjustments are correct. You are right, none of this stuff is anything major, however I think there were more things to correct than I should have had to do. In addition to the 2 issues I have mentioned (sticky link, and front derailleur chain rub when in the big ring and any of the 4 largest cogs), the stem wasn't centered (bars turning left when riding straight), and the brake / shift levers aren't in the same position on the bars, one is higher, which I must correct too. Speaking of that, I thought (and the Shimano (I have DA 10 speed) the shift lever clamp bolt is inside, basically don't you squeeze the brakes (I took off the wheel, squeezed the brake as far as I could, still can't see it) and find the bolt inside the lever assembly, accessing it above the brake lever, when it is pivoted down ? Any advice here would be helpful.

    On fit, front to back (top tube is 59 cm, my Eisentraut is 57.5) really seems good. I don't seem too stretched out, and on the hands-in-the-drops-look-down-at-the-front-axle test, if I don't move my head, just move my eyes, I actually see part of the front hub in front of the bars, about the same as on my Eisentraut. I still need to make sure the KOP position is OK (felt fine, but I want to check that out), but doubt I would move that much. Seat height I just measured pedal with crank in line with seatpost, at about 7 o'clock then, to top of seat on the Eisentraut (40.25 (MAYBE I AM WRONG HERE, I HAVE A 35 INCH INSEAM, I MIGHT NOT BE REMEMBERING THAT MEASUREMENT RIGHT) inches, yes I have long legs), and set it the same on the Tuscany. About the only thing that I would change if I could, and I will see how I adapt to this change, is that the bars, in regards to height, are lower by about 3/4 an inch or so, approximately on the Tuscny than the Eisentraut. Not sure if this will give me grief or not. 40 mile ride SAturday morning, didn't seem to be, however I was off the bike like 15 times dealing with the sticky link issue, so that ride wasn't a really good test-bed ride. Try to take off work early tomorrow or Wednesday, and get in 15-20 miles, now that I think I have the link unstuck, the bars centered, hopefully the seat tube isn't slipping lower anymore, and I made a change to the front derailleur.

    Doug
    Last edited by DBtheCyclist; 01-08-2007 at 11:52 AM.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Doug,

    The bolt that loosens the clamp is located on the outside of the level under the rubber grip. Just slide the allen key allong the side under the grip and you will find it.
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  24. #24
    BadIceBiker
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    Do you have pictures of the new Bike ?

    I hope you have ironed the bugs out of your bike. I haven't heard if the back ordered parts for mine have come in yet or not, so I am still waiting on my bike. Doesn't matter much as it is still too cold and icy to ride it . Do you have any pictures of the new bike to post ?

    Doug

  25. #25
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    Well yes, I do have pics, posted on a different thread http://forums.roadbikereview.com//sh...ad.php?t=83049 I have since replaced the water bottle cages with Profile Karbon Kages, which are carbon weave with bright red accents. I have also wrapped (double layer, right over this tape) bright red, solid color, Deda tape over that "Two tone" tape Co Cyclist suggested, that I really, reallly don't like. Got to ride it 40 miles (the "problem" ride), then a few days later about 13 (ran out of daylight, it was a Wednesday that I got out of work a bit early), which was a much better ride, most of the probs solved. Have got it fit much better, though I have ordered a 17 degree stem (the one on the bike in that pic is 10 degree), same model that Thomson says should raise the height of the bars about a half inch (Thomson X2), and the same FSA SLK seatpost, but in a zero setback version (seat is all the way forward now, and compared to my Eisentraut and KOP measurement I need it a bit further forward). One bad aspect of buying a bike from mail order, is that you can't get fitted when buying it. Co Cyclist will swap stems, but they don't stock 17 degree stem, so I had to buy it elsewhere. They won't swap seatposts period once it has been inserted, and that was just a bad break, as they have the zero setback post, I just didn't think I would need it so I didn't take it (would have been $0 charge, they are the same price). Now I will have a stem and post to sell -- ebay here I come (when I get the new stuff, hopefully in a week or so).

    Doug

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