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  1. #1
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    Cinelli or Barco XCR build help....

    Hello

    I am about 1 month away from ordering a new Cinelli XCR, Magic Mirror in a size small. Now after a little more research I find Barco XCR that has internal routing and a nicer cable stop downtube design. I have been in cordial conversations with a few shops online and local all conflicting suggestions on wheels, group set and finishing kit. My goal is to keep it under 7.3 KG with a reasonable budget of 8-9K (US). Below are some of the suggestions.

    SRAM RED, Mavic R sys and 3T finishing kit

    Campy Record with SR chain and SR or SRAM cassette, Bora 35mm and Cinelli neos kit (Dream Build) way over budget...

    SRAM ETAP, Fulcrum Racing Zero Competizione, Deda finishing kit

    I am curious to see if there are any other reasonable build options?

    Any XCR owners chime in please...

    Angel

  2. #2
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    Cinelli or Barco XCR build help....-barco-headtube.jpgCinelli or Barco XCR build help....-xcr-magic-mirror-2.jpgCinelli or Barco XCR build help....-barco_xcr.jpgCinelli or Barco XCR build help....-cinelli-xcr18-magic-mirror.jpg

  3. #3
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    Nice, don't have a XCR frame but have an older Paramount that I need to rebuild. Wasn't going to go as nice as your build because it wasn't going to be my primary ride. A lot of people on here will say "since you have a Italian bike, you have to go Campy". Can't argue with that. Campy is nice stuff.

    Was thinking about Chorus or Record myself but had not gotten around to bar, stem, seat post yet. As far as wheels, there are so many good wheelsets out there now; even though I've never had a set of pre-built wheelsets on any of my road bikes. Zipp, Reynolds, Alto Cycling (very nice hubs), Campy, Hed and any number of others. Anything but Mavic. Mavic is overpriced overrated mediocre stuff. They are not even on my list. Even thinking about getting some carbon rims and lacing them to some Tune hubs as an option.

    Right now I'm on some Industry Nine hubs laced to some Archetypes that do me just fine and I don't have to worry about any proprietary nonsense like with Mavic. Have a 3T stem and bar on my current bike. May go 3T when ever I get around to building up the Paramount

  4. #4
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    I could not agree with you more on the Mavic wheels, I am just not feeling them. I really like the campy wheels but so expensive. We will see what happens soon with this build. I am also not feeling SRAM red either. I would rather 9100 or Record. If I go this route the weight penalty is significant. Red is almost .5 lbs lighter. I need a bucket full of Italian parts with this build..

  5. #5
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    Campag Chorus 11s. Boyd wheels, if you want deeper rim carbon fiber...otherwise White Industry hubs and your choice of alloy rims.

    Use all the saved money to buy good beer or wine for the cabin fever season.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  6. #6
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    You are almost on point, I am thinking the following.
    Record with SR cassette and chain, Shamals or custom Kinlin 31's or velocities deep V with CK or WI.

    Are there any other wheels with G3 spoke pattern other than Campy and Fulcrum?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    You are almost on point, I am thinking the following.
    Record with SR cassette and chain, Shamals or custom Kinlin 31's or velocities deep V with CK or WI.

    Are there any other wheels with G3 spoke pattern other than Campy and Fulcrum?
    Only boutique 2:1 wheels I know of are Campag AKA Fulcrum. Catch with them, they use bizarro parts that aren't cheap and need ordered in. You break a spoke you have to order a $50USD spoke "kit".

    The one catch with Campagnolo of any tier.... is that the consumables are stupid expensive for high-mileage rigs and riders. The SR cassette having Ti cogs it'll wear out faster. There is no SR chain, only record--but barring sales it too ain't cheap. US retail....a Campag SR cassette is $300USD, and a chain is $70 each, barring sales. Even a Chorus cassette is $120USD online retail and chain is $50USD.


    ...whereas a Shimano cassette is $50USD online and a SRAM 11s chain I can get at the LBS for $20USD tomorrow at 9AM....also the SRAM chain comes with a PowerLink and doesn't need a bizzarro peening chainlink tool.


    Another option for the money to consider for the $$$$...Di2. Consumables are cheap, and Ultegra Di2 is cheaper than eTap--and for setup and debugging expertise locally and online is far more common for Di2. My Seven Axiom SL roadie has Chorus 11s mech, and my Ti gravel grinder rig (built last spring) has Di2. Love riding both, don't get me wrong. I built my Axiom SL before Di2 was a thing..but the cost of Campag consumables gets annoying real quick if you're mega-miles yearly, especially since you basically have to order them in as no one stocks them locally....and even if they did-the cost would be more stupid expensive and not less.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  8. #8
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    Electronic is not an option on this frame, the routing is external with braze on stops on the headtube and chain stays. I have UltrgraDi2 in another bike and I do like it, But I am going back to mechanical. I am almost convinced on Chorus or Record with Bora 35 and a 3T finishing kit? It will weight over 16.5 lbs. Not exactly what I wanted but it will look stunning. I have another bike with Veloce 10s and it rattles much more than my Di2.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    I am thinking the following. Record with SR cassette and chain
    These are two items that bring virtually nothing to the party other than shaving a few grams at extreme cost (particularly the cassette). Ti cogs wear faster and cost a lot more, while not improving shifting in any way.

  10. #10
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    I happen to have 2 "XCR" bikes
    One is Cinelli XCR, other is Casati Inox 99
    Both are considered sized between an "xsmall" and a "small" (they're custom sized to me, a $300 option).

    Here are some of my thoughts, in no particular order.
    I can tell you right now that you'll be hard pressed to get it down to 16 lbs flat. My Casati is a few ounces over 16 lbs with latest Ultegra Di2 8050, Time pedals, and DA C24 clinchers. The Cinelli is a hair over 17 lbs with the old the old DA 7900 group and Easton Aero55 (55mm) tubular wheels & tires.

    It's good that you're aware of Cicli Barco! From my understanding, Cicli Barco is in fact the actual builder of the Cinelli XCR frame. I believe Cinelli only paints it, that's about it. Going with Barco will also gives you a lot more options in color scheme, electronics, and maybe even disc brake (if you want). If I were you, I would consider Barco if you want other color scheme, unless you're bent on buying the name "Cinelli" (which was my case) and chrome.

    Another thing is, why are you so obsessed with a target weight of 16 lbs to the point that you're willing to go to some esoteric route like picking a chain? Both of my bikes weight about 1.1-1.2 lbs apart, and I can absolutely say that I have never felt like one is heavier nor lighter than the other once I start pedaling them. If you want light weight, go get carbon frame, much easier.

  11. #11
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    never heard of barco, looks nice

  12. #12
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    Barco is a high end builder, both for its own label and others (in this case Cinelli). I've seen a few Barco in Taiwan, all high end bikes. Barco XCR and Cinelli XCR are very similar in price in the US. I believe there is only 1 official Barco seller in the US (located in NY), and maybe 2-3 offical Cinelli XCR sellers (one of them being Wrench Science). These are rare bikes for sure. I'm in Socal where lots of people play with nice bikes (both carbon and metal) and I've never seen any XCR steel bike other than myself.

    One thing that Barco gives is the internal routing option. This does make the bike look cleaner, and you may also get the option to go with either mechanical or electronic. With Cinelli, it's only external routing, and that means mechanical shifting only. Another plus for internal routing is that the rear brake cable won't ping against your top tube (not a big deal since a few small rubber grommets place around the cable solve this.

    Ok, but compared to the Casati Inox, the Cinelli isn't as aesthetic in the welding. Cinelli uses TIG welding, and the welding is small but it's not filed smooth. You can tell there's a welding there. The Casati uses braze and it's filed down smooth. This may or may not be important to you, but I personally think the Casati has superior aesthetic here. The paint job on the Casati is also more exotic, I got pearlescence gray which is a gray base with metallic purple shimming under the sun, very unique. You can't get custom paint with Cinelli, but with Barco, I think you can get pretty much anything custom (as long as you're willing to pay).

    I'm not sure how defintely are you on getting the Cinelli in chrome, but personally if I were to do it over, I would give Barco a serious consideration due to more options available on the Barco. Granted you'd probably have to pay for additional options, but IMO a bike in this price range should be a unique bike if you have the option to make it unique. If Cinelli had offered custom paint option, I'd have definitely paid to get it.

    I got both my frames from outside the US, the Cinelli from Hungary seller and Casati from Singaporean seller, both official distributors, so my prices were lower than what a US seller would be able to give. But, buying from overseas is not a thing for everyone, and wait time for my Cinelli was much longer then I anticipated due to Xmas season at the time. Italians take long Xmas breaks, and then after Xmas, Cinelli's only painter got sick so basically their production got delayed for everyone. Took like 4-5 months to get my Cinelli, but glad i did.
    Last edited by aclinjury; 12-31-2017 at 08:31 AM.

  13. #13
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    r&a carries cinelli. although they don't stock the xcr they told me it could easily be ordered.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    r&a carries cinelli. although they don't stock the xcr they told me it could easily be ordered.
    yep that was the case with Wrench Science too. And the seller from Hungary was same case. I don't think this frame is stocked by any distributor, and the factory probably doesn't start building until you put down a deposit (50% in my case).

  15. #15
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    I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far itís setup as follows.

    Campy record
    Bora 35
    3T kit
    Alliante saddle
    Stages
    Vitoria corsa G

    Canít wait, so excited
    Last edited by Lara9261; 12-31-2017 at 10:08 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far itís setup as follows.

    Campy record
    Bora 35
    3T kit
    Alliante saddle
    Stages
    Vitoria corsa G

    Canít wait, so excited
    nice. Post it when you get it.

    Wait, what fork did you get? The Columbus Minimal or the Columbus Tusk straight or something else?
    Last edited by aclinjury; 01-02-2018 at 07:50 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far itís setup as follows.

    Campy record
    Bora 35
    3T kit
    Alliante saddle
    Stages
    Vitoria corsa G

    Canít wait, so excited
    I don't blame you. I ended up going a different direction but looked into that frame myself. Seems really nice.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds.
    Cinelli may be more well known but Cicli Barco is actually older, although only by one year.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    nice. Post it when you get it.

    Wait, what fork did you get? The Columbus Minimal or the Columbus Tusk straight or something else?
    I am getting the minimal fork the frame comes with. I have read of another owner with a XCR who had to changed the fork. Stating to much flex at high speed cornering. I hope I dont feel the same?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    I am getting the minimal fork the frame comes with. I have read of another owner with a XCR who had to changed the fork. Stating to much flex at high speed cornering. I hope I dont feel the same?
    well I have the Minimal, and I don't feel it flex to the point where I'm like "oh sh8t my bike is moving sideway!". Not at all. I'm 120 lbs and I've laid down some 900w peak on this. (And for those heavier guys who think 900w is nothing, please understand that for a 120lb rider to put down that sort of watt, he needs to wring the sh*t out of the bike to keep his feet planted into the pedals.)

    However, Columbus also offered the Tusk straight and now the Tusk has evolved into the Futura SL Caliper (also straight). Columbus has discontinued the Tusk, but they are still out there in stock with the sellers. Columbus claim that the Tusk and Futura SL Caliper offer more stiffness and better tracking, if you believe into that stuff. So you might want to get either the Tusk straight or Futura if that's an option for you.

    However, also keep in mind that the Tusk and Futura are also of the integrated designed, and that means their crown diameter is wider than the traditional Minimal fork. Also, the Futura can accept wider 28mm tires, but seriously, 25mm tires are all you need, and both Tusk and Minimal accept 25mm tires with plenty room to spare. Also, the "aesthetic" of your bike will also change with the Tusk/Futura as they will look a little bigger than the headtube junction, and depending on your taste, this burlier look may or may not be an important factor in a classic steel bike.

    Myself, I'm considering swapping out my Minimal to the straight blade Tusk. Not that I have issue with control or flex, I just want a different look! The Tusk is painted glossy black which would match my glossy black frame a lot better than the current 3k-weave look of the Minimal fork.

    If you want a straight blade, stiffer fork (if you believe it matters), then get the Tusk or Futura now. Don't waste money by getting an Enve fork later! Columbus fork on the Cinelli XCR is more original.
    Last edited by aclinjury; 01-02-2018 at 02:27 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far itís setup as follows.

    Campy record
    Bora 35
    3T kit
    Alliante saddle
    Stages
    Vitoria corsa G
    Seriously swish bike. Stainless frames are extremely rare, I've only seen one in my life. Record and Italian everything is certainly the way to go with this frame. The Bora 35s were a good choice as I really don't like deep section wheels with steel frames.

  22. #22
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    SO I am two weeks away form delivery on the C-XCR, cant wait.

    I made a few changes to the spec sheet, going with the following.

    3T Ergonova team stealth
    3T ARX 2 stem team stealth
    3T Stylus stem team stealth
    Michelin power endurance 25mm tires
    Fizik Aliante R1 black
    Fizik endurance tape.
    Record Stages power meter
    Chris King head set
    17 lbs. no pedals no cages

    Man this is going to be one sweet ride.....
    The guys at Wrench Science are awesome at what they do...
    Decided against the Vitoria Corsa tires, gum walls wont look good here.

  23. #23
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    You really want the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires. I started using them this year and they are the nicest tire I've ever ridden on -- and I've been doing this for a while.

    I'm a custom wheel guy myself, but I recently strayed on my last bike and bought Campy Neutrons. I've been really pleased with them and they were fairly cheap (got them from Ribble). I might change my tune if I break a spoke, but so far, so good. They're light and handle nice.

    Are you getting the frame painted? The all chrome look isn't my thing -- kind of like titanium -- a bit boring. I like the painted one in one of the pics above -- although not black. Please post some pics when you get done. That's a hell of a nice bike.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    You really want the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires. I started using them this year and they are the nicest tire I've ever ridden on -- and I've been doing this for a while.

    I'm a custom wheel guy myself, but I recently strayed on my last bike and bought Campy Neutrons. I've been really pleased with them and they were fairly cheap (got them from Ribble). I might change my tune if I break a spoke, but so far, so good. They're light and handle nice.

    Are you getting the frame painted? The all chrome look isn't my thing -- kind of like titanium -- a bit boring. I like the painted one in one of the pics above -- although not black. Please post some pics when you get done. That's a hell of a nice bike.
    OP's bike will look similar to the one in the last pic he posted. It's chrome with black.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara9261 View Post
    SO I am two weeks away form delivery on the C-XCR, cant wait.

    I made a few changes to the spec sheet, going with the following.

    3T Ergonova team stealth
    3T ARX 2 stem team stealth
    3T Stylus stem team stealth
    Michelin power endurance 25mm tires
    Fizik Aliante R1 black
    Fizik endurance tape.
    Record Stages power meter
    Chris King head set
    17 lbs. no pedals no cages

    Man this is going to be one sweet ride.....
    The guys at Wrench Science are awesome at what they do...
    Decided against the Vitoria Corsa tires, gum walls wont look good here.
    Mine is about 17.5 lbs with HED Ardennes Plus wheelset and Time pedals. I think my frame (custom) is a tad smaller than yours

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