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  1. #1
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    Douglas Matrix SRAM RED

    Can someone tell my why there are no posts about this bike? Colorado cylclist who is well respected is the company offereing it. The components are "top" grade. Frame is Taiwan (not mainland China) carbon fiber with BB30. The BB30 is a newer standard so it is pretty safe to say that the only factories making them will be well respected. The bike comes with "full" SRAM, Easton wheels and a bunch of other "branded" components unlike other "off brand" bikes. So far, I cannot find anything even close to it for QVC (quality, value and price)

    Someone help me out? Unless I live in Colorado Springs, there is noway to try it. It has a less aggressive angle on the cross tube versus most of the newer name brands out there. That being the case, since I am a nonracer and using if for just 20-30 mile rides 4X's/week is this a plus or a minus for COMFORT .... or does not matter as long as I am fitted properly?

    I am sucked into considering this along with several other hig QVC bikes surfacing on the internet like the Stradelli, Rossetta or building one myself but cannot find any comprehensive reviews on any of them.

    I have a budget under $3K.
    Last edited by tonkabaydog; 07-23-2010 at 07:06 AM.

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    I don't mean to be rude but is there a question here?
    As long as you have the sex and drugs, you don't really need the rock and roll.

  3. #3
    Darling of The Lounge
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    Here are some reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by tonkabaydog
    Someone help me out? Why is there zero on the internet on this bike
    http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/la...8_5668crx.aspx

  4. #4
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    I read those but only one discusses the 2010 model and I felt it was quite light in terms of feedback as a review. The others were for older bikes... different frame, Dura Ace etc....
    Last edited by tonkabaydog; 07-23-2010 at 07:10 AM.

  5. #5
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    Nothing?

  6. #6
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    Nope.

    You understand the differences and similarities between Dura Ace and Red, right? I'm assuming you've test ridden bikes local to you with each system and like Red better. So the components are a non-issue, they are both world class elite systems.

    As for the frame, I'm sure it is decent. Probably similar to the much tauted China carbon frames that are discussed extensively here, probably coming from under the roof of the Hong Fus, Pedal Forces, etc. of the world.

    You may be pleasantly surprised with the bike if you decide to get it, but don't let your expectations get too inflated, the saying "you get what you pay for" often rings true.

  7. #7
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    Interesting... and thanks for you comments and yes have tried them. I am coming off Ultegra 6600 and Columbus AL frame.

    However, I am still looking for a "first hand" experience from an experienced rider that can provide actual feedback.

    The frame is purportedly coming out of Taiwan and not mainland. I've been told that it's the same factory as where several other big names are being made....no way of confirming though.

    My expectations are muted, but I like the components and once priced out, the build kit for what they offer on this bike is roughly $300-400 within the price of the assembled bike. Not much downside for me.

    Could likely get the components cheaper on the Bay, but would still need to get a $500 non branded China made frame (no BB30), then assemble etc...

    As long as I am posting....... beside BD, who else might offer $2800 priced bike with similar components?

  8. #8
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    I don't know how you'd go wrong with this bike. It's just a great deal. You might also check out BikesDirect, which has some good deals on Kestrels, which do have a respected name (if that's important to you). But this looks like a nice ride.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkabaydog
    Interesting... and thanks for you comments and yes have tried them. I am coming off Ultegra 6600 and Columbus AL frame.

    However, I am still looking for a "first hand" experience from an experienced rider that can provide actual feedback.

    The frame is purportedly coming out of Taiwan and not mainland. I've been told that it's the same factory as where several other big names are being made....no way of confirming though.

    My expectations are muted, but I like the components and once priced out, the build kit for what they offer on this bike is roughly $300-400 within the price of the assembled bike. Not much downside for me.

    Could likely get the components cheaper on the Bay, but would still need to get a $500 non branded China made frame (no BB30), then assemble etc...

    As long as I am posting....... beside BD, who else might offer $2800 priced bike with similar components?
    What feedback are you looking for? Will it be better than your current Alu frame? Will it ride differently? Will you ride better?

    Those are all pretty subjective evaluations. Alot of factors go into that, with possibly the most important one being the geometry and how it corresponds to your current bike's and your "ideal". So, I, like others have already said, am not clear on what you want to know?

    Personally, I don't think I'll ever buy an off-the-shelf bike again, unless the component spec is nearly identical to what I would put on it ala carte. I wouldn't waste my money on full Red. With all the SRAM components being compatible, I'd pick and choose the stuff I want to spend on for the cutting edge technology and performance, and "downgrade" the rest. The weight gain in most cases is minimal to non-existant going from Red to Rival, and you can save a ton of cash.

    Are there really no BB30 china frames? I find that hard to believe in today's world of corporate borrowing and reverse engineering. They have china frames with isp.

  10. #10
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    Krisdrum, you make some good points. One's I have not really considered. Maybe I am pulling the trigger too quickly and should read a bit more on some of the new components?

    I just sold my bike and was anxious to replace. I been riding my wifes bike since. I purchased my wife BD Windsor Kennet/AL with Ultegra 6600 several years ago but she is not that interested in riding. Rather than plunk down $2800, it might make sense to buy one of those Chinese carbon frames and transfer all my wifes components since we both ride a 54cm as a short term solution until I figure out what I like?

    I have seen the Kestrels first hand. I know they have been around forever, but it weighed close to 17lbs I believe and the look was just ok. I have ruled it out.
    Last edited by tonkabaydog; 07-23-2010 at 08:28 AM.

  11. #11
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    Why are you looking to upgrade from your Ultegra/Alu ride?

  12. #12
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    I sold my bike... it was a 52 cm and bit small, Columbus aluminum and stiff. My fillings felt like they were coming on rough roads versus my wifes bike which is much better than mine did was.

    Upgrading hers might be an option.... not necessarily saying I will. She hardly uses it. Just sits and collects dust. I was just thinking based on your comments that for a small price I could upgrade her ride to see how I like the Carbon..........and maybe just keep hers for me.
    Last edited by tonkabaydog; 07-23-2010 at 09:01 AM.

  13. #13
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    I wouldn't put too much stock in reviews. 'Professional' reviews tend to be in advertiser-supported media so they don't want to p*ss off potential advertisers. Take a look at Bicycling magazine. I defy you to find a negative review of anything.

    User reviews aren't much better. Most reviewers are doing nothing more than patting themselves on the back for how clever they were to buy whatever.

    The simple truth is that, assuming the fit is correct, you will almost certainly like virtually any bike that you buy for $2800. It's actually quite hard to buy a "bad" bike for that kind of money. I'd buy the the one that speaks to me.
    As long as you have the sex and drugs, you don't really need the rock and roll.

  14. #14
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    Thanks for the feedback....

    However, I'm still looking for "feedback" from someone that owns one firsthand and can provide a review or comments versus other bikes brands they tried before pulling the trigger.

  15. #15
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    I have seen the Kestrels first hand. I know they have been around forever, but it weighed close to 17lbs I believe and the look was just ok. I have ruled it out.[/QUOTE]


    My Kestrel RT900 w/Sram Red weighs about 15.5 pounds with pedals, cages, and computer. I can't imagine that the RT800 w/Dura Ace weight much more.

  16. #16
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    Have you considered Neuvation bikes? Should meet your high QVC requirements.
    http://www.neuvationcycling.com/bicycles.html
    I thought of that while riding my bicycle. ~ Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity

  17. #17
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    Kinda.... but now after reading AZBikenut's post, may take another look. The price for the CF500 with SRAM Rival is about $600 less than a branded bikes at $2250, but still $750 more than BD Le Champion CF. Albeit, the frame of the CF500 does appear to be superior the the BD Le Champion i.e. BB30. The CF 100 is about the same exact price.

    The Douglas Matrix with Red is $2800. A similarly equiped CF500 with Red, comes in at $3250 and a CF 100 around $2500. The numbers are close as CC dropped the price of the Matrix. No doubt, it is currently a buyers market given the 2011's are coming and competition is fierce.

    The Matrix, CF100 and CF500 are Taiwan frames, with the CF500 having a geometry similar with current big brands (Trek/Specialized). All look like good deals. One difference I see is that the Matrix has "all" branded components, doesn't mean it is better, just what I noticed. Neuvation uses all it's own branded stuff.... consistent with their philosophy of cutting out the middleman.

    Still looking for a Matrix user to comment on their own experience.
    Last edited by tonkabaydog; 07-25-2010 at 05:52 AM.

  18. #18
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    Still nobody? Thinking I may need to consider a Scott CR1 Pro with Force for about the same price. They are selling them for $2995 at Competitieve Cyclist.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkabaydog
    Could likely get the components cheaper on the Bay, but would still need to get a $500 non branded China made frame (no BB30), then assemble etc...
    Most (all?) the Chinese frames can be ordered with BB30. I'm not sure you should be basing your purchase on that, or the supposed providence of the frame (Taiwan vs China).

    Superficially, I don't recognize it as being one of the Chinese frames (although it has some similarities to the non-integrated seatpost version of the FM028), so you probably won't see the exact same frame on ebay.

    Ordering it from CC will give you warranty and support if something goes wrong. That's a pretty good reason to buy it over the Hong Fu's etc if it is important to you.
    2000 Giant TCR, 2010 BMC
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  20. #20
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    So, because no one has stepped forward who actually owns this bike, you are passing on it? Sorry, but that seems crazy to me. You are dealing with a relaitvely limited pool of forum watchers/posters and an even more limited pool of people who have actually been on the site in the last week and have seen your post.

    Basically everyone has said it seems like a good deal on a new bike. Why not call Colorado Cyclist and talk it over with them. What is their warranty, what is their return policy if you don't like it or it doesn't fit you well?

    I would bet there are the same amount of guarantees with the Scott CR1 as there are with the Matrix. Besides, the newer CR1s are no longer "race bikes", they are now plush bikes, like the Spec Roubaix. More upright and comfort oriented.

  21. #21
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    you need to talk with CC about the geometry and fit- the only issue I see with that bike is the short top tube. I'd want to confirm that the measurements on their site are for horizontal toptube (virtual). For me, I'd be unable to find a size I like (just to give you an example of the kind of questions to ask) - the 58 has a toptube of 56.8 and a head tube of 170 so the sizing appears to run small, about a cm shorter in both these dimensions compared to 58s in some other companies. Even the 60 has a toptube that I'd find short (57.9) while the headtube is getting long (190). My own frame has a 58.5 toptube and a 180 headtube. Being longer in arms than legs, I'd have a hard time with the Douglas - and would have to avoid the temptation of it being a good deal.

    These fit issues are more important than reviews - I'm sure it's a nice bike on the road - virtually all decent frames these days (like this one) are good on the road. The issue is whether you'll be a good fit on it - would be good if you have long legs and short arms...

    I wouldn't rely on user reviews

  22. #22
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    Thanks again. All good points, but I am still most interested in hearing about the ride of the frame and wheelset from someone who has one.

    BTW, there are a lot of options at this time of year since 2011's are coming out. Currently you can get a SRAM Force Scott CR1 Pro through Competitive Cyclist at $2600 or a Velo Vie 300 SE with Force at $2250.

    I have my mind set on Red, so for a little more $$ the Douglas still looks very compelling given all the other quality components installed i.e. handlebar, stem, seat post and wheels.

    Nevertheless, I would like to hear a few comments from experienced riders who own the 2010.

  23. #23
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    This whole thread sounds more and more like aplug for CC, saying that. Have you tried Google-ing the Douglas Matrix Sram Red? There are other bike forums that may have threads on this bike that you may benefit from.

    Personally I would not purchase a bicycle over the intranet, fit is Paramount to having a fitting comfortable bike. Unless you're familiar with your geometry needs and your good at wrenching your own bike.

    Even then I would buy local, so if there's ever a problem. I can bring it in and speak to a person directly and not have to take it apart and mail back to the mail order people. That's just me though, and you may disagree, but it's all good. Good luck with your future purchase.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkabaydog
    Thanks again. All good points, but I am still most interested in hearing about the ride of the frame and wheelset from someone who has one.

    BTW, there are a lot of options at this time of year since 2011's are coming out. Currently you can get a SRAM Force Scott CR1 Pro through Competitive Cyclist at $2600 or a Velo Vie 300 SE with Force at $2250.

    I have my mind set on Red, so for a little more $$ the Douglas still looks very compelling given all the other quality components installed i.e. handlebar, stem, seat post and wheels.

    Nevertheless, I would like to hear a few comments from experienced riders who own the 2010.
    I can give quality feedback on the EA70 wheels the bike comes with. I've been riding one version or another of them for the last 5+ years. They are awesome do everything wheels. Reasonably light, yet durable. A year ago I broke a driveside rear spoke on a set of wheels that were pre-Easton (Velomax) and I bought used off E-bay. I had those wheels easily for 5 years and took them on everything from gravel and dirt to majorly rough potholed roads. I'm of the opinion that Easton makes the best factory brand wheel systems out there. I liked them so much I traded my old wheels in for a full factory replacement.

    As for the frame, I hate to say it, but I don't see any reason to believe it will ride better/worse than something like the Velo Vie, a Pedal Force or similar more "generic" frame. You keep talking about how it rides. Is there a particular set of traits you are looking for from the frame?

    And why so enamored with Red? It is gorgeous stuff, but mixing and matching some critical bits with lower level Rival and Force stuff could save you a ton of money compared to full Red and not result in a huge weight penalty. I ride Red shifters and cassette and older Rival everywhere else. Works great together and saved me a ton of cash. It also barely weighs more than full Red.

  25. #25
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    I live in the MW not in Colorado and purchased my last bike from Bikesdirect.com and was very happy with the the full Ultegra Fuji rebranded Mercier for $1100.. brand new. Nor did I encounter any problems with my wifes Windsor full Ultegra bike for $1000 either. Their 2011 Full SRAM Red Le Champion's won't be out until next month, so I am exploring other options. ..... So there ..... now a schill and plug BD.

    Velo Vie plug, Performance Bike Plug, Bike Nashbar Plug, Competitive Cylce Plug and so on and so on.

    I have Googled and Binged the 2010 matrix. I only can get 1 current review (here). Quite a few old reviews on their older Dura Ace bikes with an entirely different Frame.

    Please don't take this the wrong way, but my post is for people "with" the 2010 Douglas Matrix to respond about its ride quality .

    I respect your decision to purchase locally. However, I choose to do purchase my bike via the internet for a number of reasons.
    Last edited by tonkabaydog; 07-29-2010 at 01:50 PM.

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