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  1. #26
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    So is that the first step? To get a fit first?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Yes I completely agree and do not fault them at all. These shops have to deal with all sorts of people. Some are seriously interested in purchasing a new bike and some are just tire kickers...
    I do not have a problem purchasing a fit first. I just want to find the right bike, and Iíll do what it takes to find it... I appreciate everyoneís help!
    Shop wouldn't give me the time of day 5 years ago with my Colnago purchase. Came back on a quieter day and made it clear I was prepared to walk out with a bike. They then proceeded to spend half the day with me. It's annoying but understandable. That said I first went to another shop. I couldn't get their attention and walked out. I probably would have bought in the first shop had they helped me more.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post

    Thank you for the info. I am referring to how the bike is responding to the power i put to the peddle. Some bikes seem to just go with less effort which makes them feel faster. But perhaps its just a fitment issue?
    Fit, a big difference in tires, or that quicker handling bikes tend to just feel faster but are not.
    Unless we're talking major (like 10 pounds or more) weight differences going up hill or parachute type aero differences "bikes" don't really do anything to contributed to how fast you are going.

    There's nothing wrong with liking to 'feel fast' though. However, what seems like fun quick handling on a test ride can tend to suck if you do super long rides or encounter challenging road surfaces.

  4. #29
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    my colnago feels a lot faster with dura ace c-24's than with the former mavic krysium's. and its quite possible that i respond to that feeling by pedaling harder sometimes, but i know deep down the speed difference is very minimal at best, but i wouldn't give my my dura ace wheels and go back.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    So is that the first step? To get a fit first?
    Normally no. This is how is works:

    1. You determine the size frame that will FIT you. Generally this is done one of three ways: Either you have some money and resources like the size cycle to determine frame size. Or you rely on the shop you are dealing with to get the size close enough via experience. Or you've been doing it long enough you know your desired dimensions needed and therefore frame size.

    2. If you don't do the size cycle you'd get a "bike fit". This is basically determining what that size cycle I keep talking about does but w/o the size cycle.

    The majority of people rely on the shop and/or know their dimensions close enough. When I say dimensions I mean for me, for example, I know I need 75cm from the BB to top of saddle measured straight up the downtube; I need roughly 56cm from the tip of the saddle to the center of the bar (given a particular saddle); I do well with 11cm of bar drop; I seem to always have roughly 5cm of saddle set back (nose of saddle behind BB).

    EDIT: just to add...I can make a 56 or 54 work. I've ridden a 52 Colnago but that was pushing it. I made it work but, I'm just too tall/long for most 52's to be ideal.

  6. #31
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    Ok, so it sounds like I can go either way with the size of the bike (if in fact I am between sizes 56-58) as either size can bike can be adjusted to my body during the bike fitting. Now I just need to narrow it down to a manufacturer. Then find the bike shop who carries that brand of bike.

  7. #32
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    One thing I hadnít considered was what my expectations of the bike are. May sound stupid, but Iíve never really asked how should a good fitting road bike feel? What exactly am I looking for when test riding these bikes?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Ok, so it sounds like I can go either way with the size of the bike (if in fact I am between sizes 56-58) as either size can bike can be adjusted to my body during the bike fitting. Now I just need to narrow it down to a manufacturer. Then find the bike shop who carries that brand of bike.
    No, it doesn't work like that. 56, 58, whatever does not mean the same thing across all bike makers and bike styles.
    You can't just go looking for a 56 or 58 and expect to get a good fit. That number means different things for different makers and bike styles. For some the number is actually the seat tube length/

    A particular frame either fits you or it doesn't. You can't just look at the number they assign to it.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    There's nothing wrong with liking to 'feel fast' though. However, what seems like fun quick handling on a test ride can tend to suck if you do super long rides or encounter challenging road surfaces.
    Yep! When you do your first century and as you age in general, you will really appreciate that less twitchy, less jarring, more "sluggish" feeling bike.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    ďStatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.Ē -- Aaron Levenstein



  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    One thing I hadnít considered was what my expectations of the bike are. May sound stupid, but Iíve never really asked how should a good fitting road bike feel? What exactly am I looking for when test riding these bikes?
    No it doesn't sound stupid at all. I'm not sure how to answer but I'd say you should feel like you could ride it all day.
    By the way, given your back history, you may discover that a road bike isn't for you at this time or not an 'off the shelf' set up one anyway. Basically you shouldn't notice any discomfort during a test ride. And slight imperfection will become big ones on longer rides.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    No it doesn't sound stupid at all. I'm not sure how to answer but I'd say you should feel like you could ride it all day.
    By the way, given your back history, you may discover that a road bike isn't for you at this time or not an 'off the shelf' set up one anyway. Basically you shouldn't notice any discomfort during a test ride. And slight imperfection will become big ones on longer rides.
    Great advice Jay thank you

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Ok, so it sounds like I can go either way with the size of the bike (if in fact I am between sizes 56-58) as either size can bike can be adjusted to my body during the bike fitting. Now I just need to narrow it down to a manufacturer. Then find the bike shop who carries that brand of bike.
    Maybe. But this is the problem...until you know a little more about your parameters (saddle to bar reach, saddle height, bar drop, and saddle set back) like Jay wrote it's not as easy as picking a 56 or a 58 and hoping you can make it work. I mean maybe you could but, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the 56 would be a little too small or the 58 a little too big to work with.

    I've been doing this long enough to just look at the geometry sheet of any bike. From the STA, HTA stack and reach and maybe the head tube length I can figure out if that 54 will need a longer stem or that 56 will need a zero offset seatpost. But this means nothing to you. How would you know your dimensions at this point? Which is why I mentioned you have basically 2 options. Size cycle or relying on the LBS experience.

    If I test ride a bike comfort is the main aspect I try and determine. Which is why 1 single test ride around a parking lot just doesn't work. Not to mention that the LBS may have the saddle tilt wrong for you; saddle that's too narrow or flat etc...maybe the reach is wicked cramped, your wearing jeans, and on and on. This is why you get a bike fit. It's sort of a vicious circle if you think about it for the first timer.

    If (for example) you go to Scott bikes website and look at how they size bikes they do it by how tall you are. There is a reason for that. There is a window you could probably fit into. I was trying to not paralyze you with indecision. If you stay here long enough you will get uber confused.

    Just one man's opinion. Best to get to know the salespeople and spend some time at the LBS. Good luck.

  13. #38
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    Experienced riders please help..

    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    Maybe. But this is the problem...until you know a little more about your parameters (saddle to bar reach, saddle height, bar drop, and saddle set back) like Jay wrote it's not as easy as picking a 56 or a 58 and hoping you can make it work. I mean maybe you could but, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the 56 would be a little too small or the 58 a little too big to work with.

    I've been doing this long enough to just look at the geometry sheet of any bike. From the STA, HTA stack and reach and maybe the head tube length I can figure out if that 54 will need a longer stem or that 56 will need a zero offset seatpost. But this means nothing to you. How would you know your dimensions at this point? Which is why I mentioned you have basically 2 options. Size cycle or relying on the LBS experience.

    If I test ride a bike comfort is the main aspect I try and determine. Which is why 1 single test ride around a parking lot just doesn't work. Not to mention that the LBS may have the saddle tilt wrong for you; saddle that's too narrow or flat etc...maybe the reach is wicked cramped, your wearing jeans, and on and on. This is why you get a bike fit. It's sort of a vicious circle if you think about it for the first timer.

    If (for example) you go to Scott bikes website and look at how they size bikes they do it by how tall you are. There is a reason for that. There is a window you could probably fit into. I was trying to not paralyze you with indecision. If you stay here long enough you will get uber confused.

    Just one man's opinion. Best to get to know the salespeople and spend some time at the LBS. Good luck.
    Woodys thank you for replying. I Understand what you were saying now.

    I need to find a shop that has a fit bike to measure my parameters. Take those measurements, and find a bike thatís as close as possible to those. I havenít found a bike shop that I trust is giving me an honest experienced answer yet. I thought one shop was pretty good but they only sold trek and I didnít particularly like the trek bikes.
    I completely understand what you were saying When testing a bike, Comfort is the main thing. This is what I will look for. You are also correct that every shop has the bike set up a little different. This makes it very very hard to either Rule out a bike or move it up the list. This is very confusing. Iím actually quite overwhelmed! I never thought finding a bike would be this hard.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    This is very confusing. Iím actually quite overwhelmed! I never thought finding a bike would be this hard.
    I doesn't have to be. There are risks involved when you are throwing down thousands of dollars on something that you can't just return if you don't like. On the other hand, there's a good chance you can get any of these bikes to fit and you'll have a chance to test ride them at least a little. All of the bikes you have listed are reputable. The brands may different, the marketing spin may be different, but if you have not been riding on a real road bike yet any of them is going to give you a superb feeling you've never had before once you're on the road for your first real ride.

    This may sound crazy, but it could come down to the one you think looks the coolest, and there is nothing wrong with that. If it makes you want to ride more, you will.

    Despite being "endurance geometry", many if not all of these frame designs have been raced by pros (as mentioned above, the Domane just won a big stage in the TdF). It probably is a good option to go this route if you have back issues, but you never know, maybe a "race geometry" bike would actually work as well. My father in law is not a spring chicken anymore and is not the most flexible guy, but ended up with a CAAD12 and puts hours upon hours on it.

    Just make sure you are happy and confident in your choice when you finally put the $$$ down. After that, you probably won't have gone wrong.

  15. #40
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    This is such a great community. You guys have all been so helpful! Thank you again everyone for taking the time to help me find my bike. I appreciate the education and all the tips!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdog9 View Post
    I doesn't have to be. There are risks involved when you are throwing down thousands of dollars on something that you can't just return if you don't like. On the other hand, there's a good chance you can get any of these bikes to fit and you'll have a chance to test ride them at least a little. All of the bikes you have listed are reputable. The brands may different, the marketing spin may be different, but if you have not been riding on a real road bike yet any of them is going to give you a superb feeling you've never had before once you're on the road for your first real ride.

    This may sound crazy, but it could come down to the one you think looks the coolest, and there is nothing wrong with that. If it makes you want to ride more, you will.

    Despite being "endurance geometry", many if not all of these frame designs have been raced by pros (as mentioned above, the Domane just won a big stage in the TdF). It probably is a good option to go this route if you have back issues, but you never know, maybe a "race geometry" bike would actually work as well. My father in law is not a spring chicken anymore and is not the most flexible guy, but ended up with a CAAD12 and puts hours upon hours on it.

    Just make sure you are happy and confident in your choice when you finally put the $$$ down. After that, you probably won't have gone wrong.
    Thanks for encouragement jetdog. Itís funny you mention your father and the CAAD12, I rode a Trek Emonda that is a ďrace geometryĒ and it seemed like it would be a lot more fun as it was fast and agile. But wasnít all that comfortable. I just dismissed it because of the lack of comfort. But now Iím thinking maybe it was just because the bike wasnít fit to me?
    Thatís the problem. You test ride a bike that hasnít been fit to your body. Itís just been set up out of the box to a general setting.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Woodys thank you for replying. I Understand what you were saying now.

    I need to find a shop that has a fit bike to measure my parameters. Take those measurements, and find a bike thatís as close as possible to those. I havenít found a bike shop that I trust is giving me an honest experienced answer yet. I thought one shop was pretty good but they only sold trek and I didnít particularly like the trek bikes.
    I completely understand what you were saying When testing a bike, Comfort is the main thing. This is what I will look for. You are also correct that every shop has the bike set up a little different. This makes it very very hard to either Rule out a bike or move it up the list. This is very confusing. Iím actually quite overwhelmed! I never thought finding a bike would be this hard.
    yes, it is confusing because there isn't necessarily consistency from one bike to the next. But once the light bulb goes off and you understand geometry it really isn't. Takes time and thinking to get there though. If you look at two charts and focus on 'stack' and 'reach' and look at the angles and other numbers to see why stack and reach are what they are it should start to come into focus. It doesn't help that some don't publish stack and reach but most do.


    I'll give you an extreme example of why you don't want to just look at the number assigned to the size.
    In the past I've owned a frame that the maker calls a 54 and another one the maker calls a 47. Assuming the same stem, the one being called a 47 had me more stretched out. AKA it was longer.
    Of course the 54 was a top tube measurement and 47 was the seat tube.......but it's not exactly in flashing lights that that is what the number means so it would be easy to make a mistake just looking at the number.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I'll give you an extreme example of why you don't want to just look at the number assigned to the size.
    In the past I've owned a frame that the maker calls a 54 and another one the maker calls a 47. Assuming the same stem, the one being called a 47 had me more stretched out. AKA it was longer.
    Of course the 54 was a top tube measurement and 47 was the seat tube.......but it's not exactly in flashing lights that that is what the number means so it would be easy to make a mistake just looking at the number.
    This is definitely true. In general, road bikes size by using the top tube in centimeters. Mountain bikes, however, use the seat tube in inches. So generally speaking, a 56 road frame is about the same as a 17 mountain frame. Gravel bikes generally use road sizing. Hybrids my use either.

    But I emphasize the words "generally speaking". Just to make your head spin some more, a 56 on one brand's road frame may be different than a 56 on other brand's road frame. As another poster in this thread mentioned, different brands measure at different points on the frame! See why this is so confusing?

    OK, take a deep breath now.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    ďStatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.Ē -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #44
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    Ok so If I knew my measurements, i would find a bike that closely matches them despite what size they call it?

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Ok so If I knew my measurements, i would find a bike that closely matches them despite what size they call it?
    I think you're only looking at half the story.

    Frame size doesn't just match measurements. For example, pretty good chance your measurements are identical to some super flexible TDF pro (for arguments sake let's say they are). The by no means should indicate that same measurements = same frame for the both of you.

    It's really sounding like you should find a fitter that knows what he or she is doing.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I think you're only looking at half the story.

    Frame size doesn't just match measurements. For example, pretty good chance your measurements are identical to some super flexible TDF pro (for arguments sake let's say they are). The by no means should indicate that same measurements = same frame for the both of you.

    It's really sounding like you should find a fitter that knows what he or she is doing.
    Sorry for my ignorance, but I am learning a lot from everyone here.
    Iíve been searching locally for a shop who has a ďfit bikeĒ but have come up empty. There are a couple shops that do professional fittings but those are to fit you to a bike you already have. Those two shops sell trek and specialized. Maybe I should go with one of those shops....

  22. #47
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    Experienced riders please help..

    Just an update...
    Thanks to the advice I received on this forum, I am meeting up with a bike fitter on Monday at a local bike shop. The shop sells specialized and giant, so hopefully I will find my bike!

  23. #48
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    Found a local shop with a fit bike. Got all my measurements figured out!
    I just ordered a 2019 Giant TCR Advanced pro in size large.
    Thanks again everyone for the wealth of knowledge!

  24. #49
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    For my own curiosity did you go disc or rim brake?

  25. #50
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    Experienced riders please help..

    Quote Originally Posted by wradom View Post
    For my own curiosity did you go disc or rim brake?
    I went with the rim brake model. I didnít feel that I had to need for the disc brake.

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