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  1. #1
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    Experienced riders please help..

    Hello everyone

    I知 new to the forums and I知 searching for some advice on a couple of things..

    First of all I知 looking for a new road bike. I知 thinking Endurance geometry as I have two herniated discs in my back. But I知 not sure what size to buy. It seems that I知 in between sizes 56 and 58. Is it better to make a small size fit bigger or a big size to fit smaller?

    With a $3000 budget, what is the best endurance bike to buy? I知 looking at the Cannondale Synapse Carbon disc Ultegra or the Giant Defy Advanced 2. I致e test ridden the specialized Roubaix, Trek Domane SL5, Giant Defy and the Cannondale Synapse. I壇 like a bike that痴 a bit more on the 途ace end of the group. I really love to go fast and from what I can tell, the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish. But with my bad back im thinking the endurance group of bikes will be the way to go.
    The Cannondale Synapse and Giant Defy seem to be a bit faster... what are you thinking?
    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Many will probably chime in soon, saying you need to go ride the bikes you are interested in, which I fully agree on. I think that an endurance style road bike sounds pretty good. With you already having back problems I would recommend a professional fitting on which ever bike you choose. It can be difficult to get a feel for a bike on a short ride. I would also recommend talking with the shop you are buying from and seeing if you can demo a bike for a few days. This is normal practice in my shop as long as we are able to get the bike the customer is interested in.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSWhaler View Post
    Many will probably chime in soon, saying you need to go ride the bikes you are interested in, which I fully agree on. I think that an endurance style road bike sounds pretty good. With you already having back problems I would recommend a professional fitting on which ever bike you choose. It can be difficult to get a feel for a bike on a short ride. I would also recommend talking with the shop you are buying from and seeing if you can demo a bike for a few days. This is normal practice in my shop as long as we are able to get the bike the customer is interested in.
    Thank you for the reply and recommendations JSWhaler.
    You are correct that I致e only test ridden these bikes for a brief time (15-20) minutes. I never thought of asking if I could demo the bike for a couple days. I値l be sure to check into that...

  4. #4
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    I purchased a Domane SL framset a few months ago. I have been riding over 30 years and do weekly fast group rides. I don't consider this bike to be at all sluggish. Any of the bikes you are considering are race worthy machines in my opinion.

  5. #5
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    It is much easier to make a smaller frame fit bigger. With reduced steerer tube length it will also make the bike feel nimble.

    In terms of comfort I have a Trek Madone and find the Isospeed works really well. I壇 have no problem recomending the Domane which has same technology on front and rear contact points.


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  6. #6
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    I've ruptured L3/4 and L5S1 several times in the last 20 years for different reasons. The last was from riding a bike a lot while doing no back/core maintenance work. Now healed and muscles engaged I'm better than new. Very aggressive position and pain free for many years now...

    So my advise is get your body healed then do a fit bike then buy whatever bike you want. You don't necessarily need to be restricted to an endurance bike if your body is healthy is the point. Buying an endurance bike while not addressing the real problem is not the way to do this.

  7. #7
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    Pontiac,

    It sounds like you are going about this the right way. Unlike many new people who visit these forums and ask for bike buying advice, you are test riding bikes and getting a feel for what you like. This is good.

    My question now is how many shops have you visited? If you already have a good shop you trust, then by all means, stick with them and work with them. Otherwise, it's a good idea to "shop for your shop" as well as shop for your bike. Has more than one shop determined that you are in between sizes? What is your height and inseam?

    While I agree that getting a good fitting is very important, I am not convinced that these expensive computerized bike fit programs are necessary. A good bike shop will give you a good fitting where they put you and your new bike on their trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments here and there to dial in your fit just right. Be sure to let them know about your back issues. If all the shop will do is eyeball you and the bike (OK while you're just test riding), go to a different shop.

    The Cannondale Synapse Carbon and Giant Defy Advanced series are both excellent bikes. You won't go wrong with either of these. I don't know what you meant by "the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish". There are certain things that can give a bike one feel or another, but in the end, none of these bikes will be significantly faster or slower in reality. But in the end, you have to enjoy riding the bike and "feel" has a lot to do with that enjoyment.


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  8. #8
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    A few random comments:

    -Find a bike that fits. I doubt you are truly between sizes but if you are keep looking. But when looking at two sizes so close it's generally better to look at the stack you need. You can adjust both length and stack equally easy but too many spacers and weird angles is less desirable than a short stem. So given the bad back it's very likely the bigger size (due to taller head tube) is better for you if you are truly between sizes length wise.

    -Ignore the marketing terms. Bikes fit or not regardless of what they are called.

    -Assuming equal tires. No bike is fast or slow and just about any rider can get as aggressive as they will ever need on a bike called any Endurance bike. A lot of people get 'race bikes' for reasons you hint at only to never use the drops or bend their elbows. They could get as aggressive, and have the ability to ride more relaxed, on something marketed as endurance.

    -Along the same lines as the previous comment. Yes, going fast has a lot to do with body position and aerodynamics. But all the aero in the world isn't going to make you fast unless you are comfortable (with the exception of short rides) so again just get the one that fits.

    The bottom line is find a fitter you trust and have him or her put you on a bike that works and ignore what it's called. They only reason you should care about "race bike" or "endurance bike" is features and tires clearance.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    With a $3000 budget, what is the best endurance bike to buy?
    That's a good budget and any of the bikes you're looking at in that range will be excellent bikes. The differences between them all is very minuscule in quality or function. It'll really come down to which fit and feel best for you. Which bike shop treats you best. And which you find aesthetically pleasing.

    I really love to go fast and from what I can tell, the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish. But with my bad back im thinking the endurance group of bikes will be the way to go.
    Is that what you've read or what you've personally felt?

    The Cannondale Synapse and Giant Defy seem to be a bit faster... what are you thinking?
    In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
    Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by izza View Post
    It is much easier to make a smaller frame fit bigger. With reduced steerer tube length it will also make the bike feel nimble.

    In terms of comfort I have a Trek Madone and find the Isospeed works really well. I壇 have no problem recomending the Domane which has same technology on front and rear contact points. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Try the Domane, it's sold a an endurance bike but is quick an comfortable, a lot of the faster riders in our group ride this model.

    15 minutes is too short to make an informed decision, a great bike shop will let you take a 20 mile spin

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
    Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
    ^Very good points here.^
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    鉄tatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. -- Aaron Levenstein



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    That's a good budget and any of the bikes you're looking at in that range will be excellent bikes. The differences between them all is very minuscule in quality or function. It'll really come down to which fit and feel best for you. Which bike shop treats you best. And which you find aesthetically pleasing.

    Is that what you've read or what you've personally felt?

    In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
    Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
    Yep and to add: a "test ride" around a parking lot won't tease out many answers. Usually the wheels, tires, saddle and fit are different from bike to bike and your current bike if applicable. Attempting to compare bikes in this manner is laughable.

    I can make useful conclusions about a "bike" only after maybe a couple weeks of riding. And even then my opinion of what I thought was good one week may change with fitness/fatigue the next.

    Point? It's two triangles and two circles. If there was one bike that was heads and tails above the rest we'd all be riding it. Since this is not the case things like gearing, looks, how you like the LBS, disc v. rim, wheels and components are more important than brand and/or type of bike (endurance, cross, gravel, race, etc...).

  13. #13
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    I would agree, feel sluggish isn't necessarily slower. Wheels can make a big difference in how 'sluggish' a bike feels just due the rim weight needing more effort to spin up. One of the bikes you thought felt sluggish as an example was used to win stage 9 at the TDF this weekend - the Domane.
    Gravel Rocks

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  14. #14
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    Thank you everyone for replying and the wealth of information you are providing!

    So what im getting out of all this is that I need to test ride these bikes more to find the one that "fits". With so many manufacturers with many different models, specs and how the shop sets them up out of the box. I couldn't possibly test all these bikes for 10-20 miles? Id also need to ride them all twice one in 56 and one in 58 (depending how the manufacturer sizes them) as I seem to be between sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    I've ruptured L3/4 and L5S1 several times in the last 20 years for different reasons. The last was from riding a bike a lot while doing no back/core maintenance work. Now healed and muscles engaged I'm better than new. Very aggressive position and pain free for many years now...

    So my advise is get your body healed then do a fit bike then buy whatever bike you want. You don't necessarily need to be restricted to an endurance bike if your body is healthy is the point. Buying an endurance bike while not addressing the real problem is not the way to do this.
    That is very encouraging, I appreciate the feed back! So I should get a fit before purchasing a bike? I thought that the fitting was to fit you to the bike?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Pontiac,

    It sounds like you are going about this the right way. Unlike many new people who visit these forums and ask for bike buying advice, you are test riding bikes and getting a feel for what you like. This is good.

    My question now is how many shops have you visited? If you already have a good shop you trust, then by all means, stick with them and work with them. Otherwise, it's a good idea to "shop for your shop" as well as shop for your bike. Has more than one shop determined that you are in between sizes? What is your height and inseam?


    getting a good fitting is very important, I am not convinced that these expensive computerized bike fit programs are necessary. A good bike shop will give you a good fitting where they put you and your new bike on their trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments here and there to dial in your fit just right. Be sure to let them know about your back issues. If all the shop will do is eyeball you and the bike (OK while you're just test riding), go to a different shop.

    The Cannondale Synapse Carbon and Giant Defy Advanced series are both excellent bikes. You won't go wrong with either of these. I don't know what you meant by "the endurance bikes seem a bit sluggish". There are certain things that can give a bike one feel or another, but in the end, none of these bikes will be significantly faster or slower in reality. But in the end, you have to enjoy riding the bike and "feel" has a lot to do with that enjoyment. What i mean by sluggish, is that the bike doesn't seem to respond to the power i put to the peddles as well as others ive ridden.
    Yes all 5 of the shops I have been to have said I was between sizes. However, each shop seems to have their opinion on what size I should get. I think they are just recommending the size they have in stock as each shop tells me different. One shop will say 56 another will say 58. One will recommend making a 56 fit and the other will recommend making a 58 fit. I am 6' tall with a 32 inseam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    A few random comments:

    -Find a bike that fits. I doubt you are truly between sizes but if you are keep looking. But when looking at two sizes so close it's generally better to look at the stack you need. You can adjust both length and stack equally easy but too many spacers and weird angles is less desirable than a short stem. So given the bad back it's very likely the bigger size (due to taller head tube) is better for you if you are truly between sizes length wise.

    -Ignore the marketing terms. Bikes fit or not regardless of what they are called.

    -Assuming equal tires. No bike is fast or slow and just about any rider can get as aggressive as they will ever need on a bike called any Endurance bike. A lot of people get 'race bikes' for reasons you hint at only to never use the drops or bend their elbows. They could get as aggressive, and have the ability to ride more relaxed, on something marketed as endurance.

    -Along the same lines as the previous comment. Yes, going fast has a lot to do with body position and aerodynamics. But all the aero in the world isn't going to make you fast unless you are comfortable (with the exception of short rides) so again just get the one that fits.

    The bottom line is find a fitter you trust and have him or her put you on a bike that works and ignore what it's called. They only reason you should care about "race bike" or "endurance bike" is features and tires clearance.
    Thank you for the info. I am referring to how the bike is responding to the power i put to the peddle. Some bikes seem to just go with less effort which makes them feel faster. But perhaps its just a fitment issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    That's a good budget and any of the bikes you're looking at in that range will be excellent bikes. The differences between them all is very minuscule in quality or function. It'll really come down to which fit and feel best for you. Which bike shop treats you best. And which you find aesthetically pleasing.

    Is that what you've read or what you've personally felt?

    In short test rides it'd be really hard to tell which is faster. Especially without any recorded data. What might "feel" faster isn't necessarily faster. Were all the bikes running the same tire size and air pressure? A bike with over inflated tires with "feel" faster, even though it isn't.
    Think about driving down the highway in a beat up '70's pickup truck. Driving 55mph feels fast. Then get in a new car with a smooth suspension and cruising at 80mph feels like you're barely moving. Well the same goes with bike tires. Really hard tires will make your bike feel like the '70's pickup.
    You bring up very good points thank you. Im not sure what the tire pressures were. Might be the difference I was feeling..

    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    Yep and to add: a "test ride" around a parking lot won't tease out many answers. Usually the wheels, tires, saddle and fit are different from bike to bike and your current bike if applicable. Attempting to compare bikes in this manner is laughable.

    I can make useful conclusions about a "bike" only after maybe a couple weeks of riding. And even then my opinion of what I thought was good one week may change with fitness/fatigue the next.

    Point? It's two triangles and two circles. If there was one bike that was heads and tails above the rest we'd all be riding it. Since this is not the case things like gearing, looks, how you like the LBS, disc v. rim, wheels and components are more important than brand and/or type of bike (endurance, cross, gravel, race, etc...).
    I rode each bike a bout 15-20 minuets each over the span of a few weeks. There are soooooo many bikes and being between sizes I felt like I needed to ride both sizes..
    Last edited by PontiacHP; 07-16-2018 at 03:58 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    That is very encouraging, I appreciate the feed back! Should I get a fit before purchasing a bike? I thought that the fitting wqs to fit you to the bike you purchased?
    I was replying to your original post about not really knowing what size frame you should get. If you have a place near by that has a "Size Cycle" that can determine what size bike by basically finding (or very close to finding) an ideal reach, setback, seat height etc...I think I mis-wrote "fit bike". Probably confused you. Sorry.

    Or yes you could guess on what size bike and then get a bike fit to get the a-fore-mentioned parameters close. If you buy say a 58 in brand X and find out in the fitting that a 56 would have been better you may have to buy a seat post with more setback and/or a longer stem for example to get into that ideal position.

    Here in Scottsdale I think we are spoiled to have so many outstanding fitters and resources in the fit field. I use this place and in the video you can see the Size Cycle I'm talking about...HERE

  16. #16
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    Ill look into the "size cycle". Im not sure we have that here (Wisconsin). And Yes sorry I was confused..

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Ill look into the size cycle. Im not sure we have that here (Wisconsin). Yes sorry I was confused..
    Yeah it's not necessary just a resource to take some of the guess work and worry out.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    Yeah it's not necessary just a resource to take some of the guess work and worry out.
    I think I could really benefit from it as I would know exactly what size to test and/or buy.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Yes all 5 of the shops I have been to have said I was between sizes. However, each shop seems to have their opinion on what size I should get. I think they are just recommending the size they have in stock as each shop tells me different. One shop will say 56 another will say 58. One will recommend making a 56 fit and the other will recommend making a 58 fit. I am 6' tall with a 32 inseam.
    It's a tough industry and hard not to blame them if in reality you could go either way... but you hit the nail on the hammer here. You have to take their suggestion with a grain of salt because their inventory will influence their answer for sure.

  20. #20
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    Before you decide the 'endurance', decide what you want to do with the bike, race, climb , commute, club rides. And before you finish your diagnosis that an endurance bike will be best, why not go to a trusted bike shop and get fitted and see what they put you on. A good bike shop/fitter will both measure you, check for flexibility and ask about how you'll ride and use the bike. You may be right that an endurance bike is the best option but why not let the experts guide you there. What you are dong is almost like walking into a doctor's office, offering a diagnosis and telling him to fix you. Me, i'm on a road bike, not the most aggressive one out there, but it seems to work really well for me. I'm sure if I listened to the forums I might be on an endurance bike as well and not enjoy some of my rides quite as much.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Before you decide the 'endurance', decide what you want to do with the bike, race, climb , commute, club rides. And before you finish your diagnosis that an endurance bike will be best, why not go to a trusted bike shop and get fitted and see what they put you on. A good bike shop/fitter will both measure you, check for flexibility and ask about how you'll ride and use the bike. You may be right that an endurance bike is the best option but why not let the experts guide you there. What you are dong is almost like walking into a doctor's office, offering a diagnosis and telling him to fix you. Me, i'm on a road bike, not the most aggressive one out there, but it seems to work really well for me. I'm sure if I listened to the forums I might be on an endurance bike as well and not enjoy some of my rides quite as much.
    Hi Trek thanks for your input.
    That's pretty much the way it has been going at he shops around me. No one has really measured me. They just asked what type of riding Ill be doing, how tall I am and my budget. Would it make more sense for my to narrow down a brand and then find a good shop who carries that brand of bike? It seems the shops carry one, maybe two major brand bikes. Often they wont have my size in the spec I'd like. so they'll recommenced riding the bike they have in stock which might be a different model.

  22. #22
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    I think part of the problem is finding a good bike shop that has knowledge and the proper tools like a "fit bike" that they can measure me on first.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Hi Trek thanks for your input.
    That's pretty much the way it has been going at he shops around me. No one has really measured me. They just asked what type of riding Ill be doing, how tall I am and my budget. Would it make more sense for my to narrow down a brand and then find a good shop who carries that brand of bike? It seems the shops carry one, maybe two major brand bikes. Often they wont have my size in the spec I'd like. so they'll recommenced riding the bike they have in stock which might be a different model.
    I don't think so. If you are new to cyclng, try a few stores. Each shop will deal with a few brands. Nobody carries every brand. If they let you try out the bikes you can then decide which you liked best and go with that brand and shop. Also a caveat, sometimes people try a bike and form an opinion on the brand when what they are really noticing is the fit, group set and tires.

    Try to avoid buying into the hype you may be read about a particular brand or technology whether it from a review, friend or something you read on line.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacHP View Post
    Hi Trek thanks for your input.
    That's pretty much the way it has been going at he shops around me. No one has really measured me. They just asked what type of riding Ill be doing, how tall I am and my budget. Would it make more sense for my to narrow down a brand and then find a good shop who carries that brand of bike? It seems the shops carry one, maybe two major brand bikes. Often they wont have my size in the spec I'd like. so they'll recommenced riding the bike they have in stock which might be a different model.
    To be fair, it's hard to fault a shop for not wanting to spend a lot of time on precise fitting BEFORE you have decided to buy a bike. After all, most people who walk into a store shopping for a bike don't buy there.

    Now, after you have come back a 2nd or 3rd time, they will see you are serious.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    鉄tatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. -- Aaron Levenstein



  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    To be fair, it's hard to fault a shop for not wanting to spend a lot of time on precise fitting BEFORE you have decided to buy a bike. After all, most people who walk into a store shopping for a bike don't buy there.

    Now, after you have come back a 2nd or 3rd time, they will see you are serious.
    Yes I completely agree and do not fault them at all. These shops have to deal with all sorts of people. Some are seriously interested in purchasing a new bike and some are just tire kickers...
    I do not have a problem purchasing a fit first. I just want to find the right bike, and I値l do what it takes to find it... I appreciate everyone痴 help!

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