Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 126 to 137 of 137
  1. #126
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Henry Chinaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,447
    Anyone aspiring to be a custom framebuilder should read this thread.

  2. #127
    your god hates me
    Reputation: Bob Ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,433
    Quote Originally Posted by tbessie View Post
    If a bike is advertised as "fully custom", shouldn't every single bit of it be fully custom, except where it would compromise the integrity of the STRUCTURE of the bike itself?
    Quote Originally Posted by tbessie View Post
    Well... if the frame builder advertises "anything you want" on the frame... shouldn't it mean just that?

    Well, which is it? Did they actually and explicitly say "anything you want"? Or did they just say "fully custom"?

    Did they even actually say "fully custom" or did they just say "custom"?

    Here's an important tidbit about the handbuilt artisanal bicycle frame industry that doesn't seem to register with a lot of first-time buyers: Almost nobody is really doing "fully custom" frames, where Whatever You Want, You Get. A lot of them aren't even really doing "custom" frames; they're doing what would more correctly be called "made-to-measure" frames, where the dimensions (fit) are custom-sized to you, but the geometry is based on the builder's ideas about what will yield the best performance. But nearly all of them have very defined pre-conceived notions of what works and what doesn't work for their brand, in terms of performance, functionality, and aesthetics, and no matter how much you beg/plead/cajole (and/or argue the semantics of the word "custom") they won't build something that falls outside of those parameters.

  3. #128
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    Well, which is it? Did they actually and explicitly say "anything you want"? Or did they just say "fully custom"?

    Did they even actually say "fully custom" or did they just say "custom"?

    Here's an important tidbit about the handbuilt artisanal bicycle frame industry that doesn't seem to register with a lot of first-time buyers: Almost nobody is really doing "fully custom" frames, where Whatever You Want, You Get. A lot of them aren't even really doing "custom" frames; they're doing what would more correctly be called "made-to-measure" frames, where the dimensions (fit) are custom-sized to you, but the geometry is based on the builder's ideas about what will yield the best performance. But nearly all of them have very defined pre-conceived notions of what works and what doesn't work for their brand, in terms of performance, functionality, and aesthetics, and no matter how much you beg/plead/cajole (and/or argue the semantics of the word "custom") they won't build something that falls outside of those parameters.
    I'll check the website and paste in the exact text later. The implication from the website was that anything was possible, and that I, as the buyer, could go wild with the graphics. At least, there was no indication that there were any limits at all (beyond physical limits) to what could be done.

    For this frame, I worked with the builder using their software that let me tweak the parameters (tube lengths and angles) as I pleased, though I only modified the top-tube angle from their already-constructed geometry. I got the feeling they'd be open to modifications to other parameters, too, but I am not knowledgeable enough to question a builder's basic geometries. If I were, I guess I'd be building my own bikes. :-)

    I only modified the top-tube angle because I like a more classic look, with a completely horizontal top tube. They cautioned me against too little slope, because that would create a seat tube that didn't allow for much exposed seatpost. We got it to around 3 or 4 degrees, which I accepted.
    Last edited by tbessie; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:11 PM.

  4. #129
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    937
    Since the OP has posted this on the internet, he's looking for the opinion of others.

    If I were getting, say, a Richard Sachs, I'd want it to say Richard Sachs on the downtube. That's the whole idea. Get outta here with the foofraw (or whatever) garbage.

    /the above is an opinion, which you asked for.

  5. #130
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    Since the OP has posted this on the internet, he's looking for the opinion of others.

    If I were getting, say, a Richard Sachs, I'd want it to say Richard Sachs on the downtube. That's the whole idea. Get outta here with the foofraw (or whatever) garbage.

    /the above is an opinion, which you asked for.
    Saying what you'd want is one thing; that's the "whole idea" for you. That's fine, that's what I'd wanted to hear - what others would want or expect.

    Calling my idea "garbage" however is a judgment about me and my tastes, not about what you would do. That is not what I asked for or wanted, and, also, is kinda rude. I'd never criticize someone else's tastes in bike graphics.

    Those are two different things.

    Perhaps it's like the frame builder's assumptions - he assumed that "everybody knew" that the downtube was sacred in that way (I didn't). I assumed that asking for viewpoints and opinions meant that people would be polite and not badmouth other peoples' choices, but instead take a "Well, I personally wouldn't like that, but to each their own; I would have/expect/want X instead" attitude.

    My bad, if the latter.
    Last edited by tbessie; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:27 PM.

  6. #131
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: velodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,936
    Quote Originally Posted by tbessie View Post
    I'll check the website and paste in the exact text later.
    I'm looking forward to reading the builders text. It mighta-maybe have been a good idea to have posted that earlier just so everyone could given an opinion knowing both sides, what was offered and what was expected.
    Too old to ride plastic

  7. #132
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,472
    Quote Originally Posted by tbessie View Post
    Saying what you'd want is one thing; that's the "whole idea" for you. That's fine, that's what I'd wanted to hear - what others would want or expect.

    Calling my idea "garbage" however is a judgment about me and my tastes, not about what you would do. That is not what I asked for or wanted, and, also, is kinda rude. I'd never criticize someone else's tastes in bike graphics.

    Those are two different things.

    Perhaps it's like the frame builder's assumptions - he assumed that "everybody knew" that the downtube was sacred in that way (I didn't). I assumed that asking for viewpoints and opinions meant that people would be polite and not badmouth other peoples' choices, but instead take a "Well, I personally wouldn't like that, but to each their own; I would have/expect/want X instead" attitude.

    My bad, if the latter.
    Unfortunately (or not), when you post stuff like this on the Internet, you have to take the bad with the good.

    If you expected to come to an Internet bike forum and ask a specific question and get only very specific answers, without people judging you, you obviously haven't been paying attention.

    My suggestion to you is to take what value you can from the responses posted, and ignore the negativity.

  8. #133
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I'm looking forward to reading the builders text. It mighta-maybe have been a good idea to have posted that earlier just so everyone could given an opinion knowing both sides, what was offered and what was expected.
    I would have, but didn't want to mention the builder's name; posting text from their website would point people to them as well.

    I'll post it after the frame is complete.

  9. #134
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    Unfortunately (or not), when you post stuff like this on the Internet, you have to take the bad with the good.

    If you expected to come to an Internet bike forum and ask a specific question and get only very specific answers, without people judging you, you obviously haven't been paying attention.
    It's not a question of paying attention or not; it's the unrealistic expectation of mine that adults would act like adults - and mature, fair ones at that - even on an Internet forum.

    Given I've been on the internet since the old Arpanet days (started on the net probably around 1980), you'd think I would have learned by now. But, hope springs eternal, even if it'll never happen.

    My suggestion to you is to take what value you can from the responses posted, and ignore the negativity.
    Oh, I have; but I will also state my displeasure when I find people being rude or divisive, even if it has no effect.

  10. #135
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: kiwisimon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    5,450
    Quote Originally Posted by tbessie View Post
    .

    I'll post it after the frame is complete.
    what's the time line looking like?

  11. #136
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    what's the time line looking like?
    Coupla weeks most likely.

  12. #137
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    937
    Quote Originally Posted by tbessie View Post
    Calling my idea "garbage" however is a judgment about me and my tastes, not about what you would do. That is not what I asked for or wanted, and, also, is kinda rude. I'd never criticize someone else's tastes in bike graphics.

    Those are two different things.
    Clearly you're looking for either validation of your idea or questioning of your idea. If you really want a discussion, the specifics of your idea are important. The discussion needs to cover not simply "should" you be able to put whatever you want on the frame, it should also cover exactly WHAT you plan on putting on the bike. The "what" is a relevant part of the story.

    In this case, you're asking us (me) how we (I) feel about getting rid of the builder's name on a presumably expensive custom frame that represents you and your tastes and sticking a decal that says "foofraw" on the downtube. My reaction: that's a terrible idea that's going to look awful. If you're asking what someone on the street who knows bikes would think about a bike that says "foofraw" on it, now you know what I personally (me alone, only me, no one else) think.

    Admittedly, calling the idea "garbage" is a bit rude... even if it accurately represents my feeling on this important matter.

    /again, the above is an opinion, which was asked for.

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-11-2012, 10:29 PM
  2. Prominent Repubs Begin To Panic & Eat Their Own...
    By SystemShock in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 09-17-2012, 02:54 PM
  3. I won! I won! I won!
    By CyreneSong in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-26-2011, 03:40 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-24-2008, 05:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •