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  1. #1
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    Frames and Forks Getting Outrageously Expensive

    Like the IF xs model: $5499.99 for a frame and fork:
    http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/Ind...ion/Bikes.html

    In general, everything cycling related seems to be getting TOO expensive.

  2. #2
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    I remember when Merckx Team SC came out few years back it was $ 1,600 for frame and fork. Now it's $2,600. Same with Pegoretti. Their frames got very expensive in the last few years.

  3. #3
    Big is relative
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    I understand the euro frames,

    with the dollar vs euro exchange, but why domestic? I know alot of tubing comes from Italy, but what about true temper frames, domestic titanium, or Taiwan frames? Are frame builders price matching upwards with their euro counterparts? I think the last good deals on frames are to be had with builders like Steelman, Strong, and other domestic custom builders. I would take a custom, domestic steel frame with a cool paintjob over any hydroformed, scandium tubed, carbon rear end euro bike.

  4. #4
    johnny99
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    Some bikes are expensive; some are not. You get to choose your own price range. I suspect that some of these super expensive bikes are just to make the catalogs look pretty; they don't actually sell many of them.

  5. #5
    Daily Commuter
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    Yeah, but a Ti Crown Jewel at $3,400 you get to pay $100 more for paint. I agree that is rediculous, what they are charging for these frames. At that price, you would think paint would be included and optional. There are many to choose from and many are a much better value.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorf411
    Yeah, but a Ti Crown Jewel at $3,400 you get to pay $100 more for paint. I agree that is rediculous, what they are charging for these frames. At that price, you would think paint would be included and optional. There are many to choose from and many are a much better value.
    how much is a vamoots anyway? i heard $2500. .. if that's the case i don't find any reason to pay 3500 on an IF.
    and there is a significant number of builders in the USA who can build me a very sweet ti frame iin the $2500 range and i would still buy a lugged RS waterford over ti any day..

  7. #7
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    That IF bike is a joke. I won't consider an IF bike in the future just because of that. $5,500 for frame and fork isn't just outrageous, it's just plain offensive.

  8. #8
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    I think the Ti Crown Jewel is their most attractive road bike. The mixed material ones give me the impression of yet another manufacturer jumping onto the carbon bandwagon, but doesn't have the technology to make a complete carbon frame in-house.

  9. #9
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    They are just charging more for them, because there are fools out there who will pay whatever the companies want them to.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
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  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Amen

    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    They are just charging more for them, because there are fools out there who will pay whatever the companies want them to.
    The prices will only stop going up when we stop paying for them. At this point I think you would be foolish to buy anything but a custom from a local builder - if you want a high end bike. Bucking the trend, Cannondale has actually dropped thier prices while putting a full carbon fork on many of thier bikes. What a concept. A better deal.

  11. #11
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    Nobody here, needs a frame that costs more than $2000
    Hell, I would say that 98% of the people here, don't need a frame that costs more than $1000.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

    I>U

    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

    If Jesus had a gun, he'd be alive today!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    They are just charging more for them, because there are fools out there who will pay whatever the companies want them to.
    Yep, the economy is pretty stagnant but there seems to be no upper limit on luxury goods. However, I think today's $2000 bike is quite a bit better than a $2000 bike fifteen years ago.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill
    I think the last good deals on frames are to be had with builders like Steelman, Strong, and other domestic custom builders. I would take a custom, domestic steel frame with a cool paintjob over any hydroformed, scandium tubed, carbon rear end euro bike.
    New full carbon frame from Steelman looks very good but it's $2,700 for frame/fork. But than again it's still cheaper than Colnago and you get a custom geometry from Steelman, I think.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FondriestFan
    That IF bike is a joke. I won't consider an IF bike in the future just because of that. $5,500 for frame and fork isn't just outrageous, it's just plain offensive.
    Ditto. I've always kind of liked IF's business model, but they're getting silly. They're starting to act like Serotta or Seven or something with the goofy overpriced gimmick bikes. Once you get much over $2000 for a frame you're no longer paying for better workmanship or paint or materials, you're paying for hype.

  15. #15
    Cat Herder
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    Thumbs down

    if your lemonade stand was selling cups for $1, and the kid down the street was selling his for $5, and selling more than you, and the only difference is he named his product lemone-aide wouldn't you rename your product and raise the price? I blame this entire thing (I do agree frameset prices are getting stupid) on what Pinarello and Colnago started doing about 2 years ago....their asinine 'limited edition' releases which for all intents and purposes are the EXACT same bike as the regular, just marked up to $7500. Want some real entertainment? Wait until you see the end of year clearance prices. Sooner or later shops will start saying 'no' because they're left with too much product on their shelves....which means the consumer started saying 'no'.

    Then again, it's all about Econ 101 and finding the equilibrium point on the supply/demand curve. As long as there are people buying, why the F not raise the price of 'exclusivity'?? In the meantime, do what I and others do: wait for the end of the season or buy off flea-bay.

  16. #16
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    You find a lot of guys defending their right to spend money on the high end--status symbol buys; but you have to wonder why a stamped steel campy or shimano component group costs as much as they do. Shimano's fishing reels are rather cheap and work fine and I imagine there is a lot more gearing and technology in them than the requirements of a 9-10 speed shifting group. The profit margin for the manufacture of these things has got to be astronomical for the parent company. Labor in Taiwan, steel and plastic for over a $1000 is pure bs.

    You find the same thing in other sports--in golf we are paying $500 for a Ti driver with a graphite shaft. Good God, you can't tell me that it's really worth it. But then there are some guys with a lot of bucks that can justify $300 to shoot 90 on a name course with $2500 in clubs in their bags.

    In my economy the price of some of these name brands is just plain stupid--a 200 lb rider spending $3000 on a frame that will save 2 pounds so they can feel the bling on a recreational training ride is a little funny. On the same note it's better than spending it on meth or something else. Where will the consumer stop and say "nope"? On another board we did a poll and found that most people were spending $2600 average on their rides, but then they might have 5 bicycles in their stables. A lot of hard core cyclist seem to be bling freaks, and then there is a population with the money that says it their right to spend it how they wish and talking price is jealousy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckxman
    Like the IF xs model: $5499.99 for a frame and fork:
    http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/Ind...ion/Bikes.html

    In general, everything cycling related seems to be getting TOO expensive.
    Quit b!tchin' - you can't have it both ways. When you buy an IF, C50, etc., you are buying exclusivisity (is that a word?). If they aren't ridiculously priced, how are they going to be exclusive? - TF
    "Don't those guys know they're old?!!"
    Me, off the back, at my first 50+ road race.

  18. #18
    Windrider (Stubborn)
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    It is also very relative.........

    I have been lucky and make good money. I also have finished putting 4 kids thru College. My largest passion outside of work & my family is riding. So I spend what I can afford on this passion.

    I used to golf alot. Annual golfing expenditures with CC dues, clubs, balls, gloves assorted trips etc, was in the $5,000 to $7,000 range. If I buy a bike a year, I'm spending less than this.....and I'm not buying a bike a year. So even spending excess on the best is still cheaper than a lot of hobbies.

    If I take the logic of this thread to an extreme (but not much of one), anyone who is riding a bike that cost over $1,000 is stupid, that most of us shouldn't be using anything better than 105, that we all don't need high end shoes, or outfits etc. The truth is, we spend our money how we awnt to for reasons that most of us don't take the time to think about....yet we love it.

    Is my high priced frame worth the premium I paid.....maybe not to you, but it is to me, or I wouldn't have bought it.

    I just built up a Merckx MX leader.......it's a 6 pund frame and fork that is built like a tank......got a deal on a NOS 2003.......anyway, this bike rides like a dream......they got the formula absolutly perfect.........yet it's 3 lbs heavier than my TI/Carbon bike and cost less than half as much. Do I like it more than my "Good" bike? No, but it does ride different, and I enjoy the difference.

    If you don't like the prices don't pay them. Or do what I do, get your fit absolutly dialed in, figure out what bike you want, and then be patient.....eventually you will find either a NOS or a used bike at half the price.

    I'm sure that if I went through each of your lives, I could find many things you own that are "overkill". Why critisize high end bike owners?

    Len
    Last edited by Len J; 05-25-2005 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Cause I can't type worth a damn.



    "Evil....is the complete lack of Empathy!"

    ""We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. " Aristotle

    No one is as bad as the worst thing they have done & no one is as good as the best thing they have done.........think of that when you feel like you understand someone.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len J
    I have been lucky and make good money. I also have finished putting 4 kids thru College. My largest passion outside of work & my family is riding. So I spend what I can afford on this passion.

    I used to golf alot. Annual golfing expenditures with CC dues, clubs, balls, gloves assorted trips etc, was in the $5,000 to $7,000 range. If I buy a bike a year, I'm spending less than this.....and I'm not buying a bike a year. So even spending excess on the best is still cheaper than a lot of hobbies.

    If I take the logic of this thread to an extreme (but not much of one), anyone who is riding a bike that cost over $1,000 is stupid, that most of us shouldn't be using anything better than 105, that we all don't need high end shoes, or outfits etc. The truth is, we spend our money how we awnt to for reasons that most of us don't take the time to think about....yet we love it.

    Is my high priced frame worth the premium I paid.....maybe not to you, but it is to me, or I wouldn't have bought it.

    I just built up a Merckx MX leader.......it's a 6 pund frame and fork that is built like a tank......got a deal on a NOS 2003.......anyway, this bike rides like a dream......they got the formula absolutly perfect.........yet it's 3 lbs heavier than my TI/Carbon bike and cost less than half as much. Do I like it more than my "Good" bike? No, but it does ride different, and I enjoy the difference.

    If you don't like the prices don't pay them. Or do what I do, get your fit absolutly dialed in, figure out what bike you want, and then be patient.....eventually you will find either a NOS or a used bike at half the price.

    I'm sure that if I went through each of your lives, I could find many things you own that are "overkill". Why critisize high end bike owners?

    Len


    You make some great points and I think you have the right to own whatever you can afford--I tried to express that. I just don't understand why some stamped steel and plastic in component groups are so expensive for anyone? I've spent what the next guy would consider a ton on bicycles, and I'd spend more if I wanted. I just wonder where the real roof of prices lay? And I wonder why one would buy a production bike at $7000 & not have a custom bicycle built for you.

  20. #20
    Big is relative
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    I don't need a status symbol, but

    I want to enjoy what I ride. The stress relief and enjoyment I get from cycling is worth every penny I spend on the ride. My fast bike is a Pegoretti. The typical cyclist has probably never heard of it, but the people I ride with have. It is not a status symbol, it is a quality built, neutral handling bike with a cool paint job. I am impressed and that is all that matters. I could have bought a Trek or Cannondale, but there are enough of them already. WRT the previous post, I have an Eddy Merckx MX Leader that I rode for several years and if I wasn't married, it would be my woman. I recently had the frame restored including new chrome and a paint job with new decals. It will stay crated until I leave Hawaii. BTW my Pegoretti has ten speed 03 Record because I like the feel of carbon levers. They don't make me fast, I just like them.

  21. #21
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    Frame/fork and component group prices go hand-in-hand. Really, if somebody buys that IF frame for $5500, they won't bat an eye at a $1000 group

  22. #22
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    I think what it comes down to is how the bike makes you feel.

    I think it's safe to say that cycling makes each of us feel something that keeps us coming back for more. That feeling for each person is different, but we all feel it or we wouldn't keep riding a bike. Similarly, the bike you ride enhances that feeling. We all want a "special" bike to ride. For some, special is a fully restored Gios, to others it's a 30 year old fixed gear convesion, to others its custom lugged steel, and to others it means spending $6k on a limited edition Colnago.

    We are all in search of that special bike that will enhance our particular riding experience. I think it's disingenuous to judge someone else simply because they are going about it in a different manner than you. Personally, I don't think I'll ever spend $6k on a bike, but I won't fault someone who does.

  23. #23
    eminence grease
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckxman
    Like the IF xs model: $5499.99 for a frame and fork:
    http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/Ind...ion/Bikes.html

    In general, everything cycling related seems to be getting TOO expensive.
    It's really about personal obscenity thresholds. Some will gladly $5400 for a frame, some won't. That's so far over the line for me, that I'd never consider it.

    So I think you're partially right, some bikes have become obscene. But they're designed for the market segment of guys that want to walk into a store and say "give me the most expensive frame you have and build it up." There will always be a bunch of them, and builders are foolish not to address it with appropriate models. But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of great bikes available at reasonable prices. Not all have gone around the bend. I don't think frame prices in general have become obscene.

    Custom has remained pretty darn reasonable. My Vanilla was $1750, my Kirk, $1600 and those are highly desireable bikes from outrageously talented builders. Even my custom Davidson was $1000 less than an equivalent Serotta/Seven and $3000 less than the one you've mentioned. It has always been about smart shopping.

    Lenj also has it right - it's all about deciding how much you want to spend and watching the sales. The most expensive frame I own was $1950, and I own some pretty nice bikes. I wanted a Pegoretti Fina, I hung out on eBay until I found a shop demo for 1/2 MSRP. I wanted a Fondriest - Interbike demos for 75% off. And I wanted a Moots - another shop demo for $500 off retail. They're out there, and only a fool pays retail.

  24. #24
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    just for the record...

    not all bikes are expensive, i just bought a custom steel dean from '96 that has the exact measurements i got from a fitting at my lbs. the bike has 8 speed campy record shifters/frt deraileur with athena everything else...i paid $500 for it shipped to my door. its not the newest bike, but i love it and anyone who is willing to pay 7000 for a bike today, good for them, because in 3 years, i will buy it from them for less than 1000 and enjoy it just as much. The bike industry we participate in consists mainly of luxury and giffen goods, if you dont like it, too bad, walmart has some bikes for much cheaper that follow 'traditional' market rules...
    I THINK PERHAPS YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND. PEOPLE'S WHOLE LIVES DO PASS IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES BEFORE THEY DIE. THE PROCESS IS CALLED "LIVING."

    http://makeitsonumber1.blogspot.com/

  25. #25
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by merckxman
    Like the IF xs model: $5499.99 for a frame and fork:
    http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/Ind...ion/Bikes.html

    In general, everything cycling related seems to be getting TOO expensive.
    I agree, but I think there are alot more engineers in this industry than ever before.
    Just look at all the CF research and all the products being generated.

    Engineering salaries tend to be above average. Companies need to recoup their
    development efforts and make a profit to further future development.
    Frankly, how much better can this cycling stuff get? What usually happens with
    high technology products (other than autos) is that as the industry becomes more of
    a commodity item (like disk drives, computers, tv's, hifi's) the prices usually drop.
    I am ignoring exchange rates and just looking at technology advances.
    I believe the marketing end of the cycling business will never let this happen though.

    If more people got off their asses from playing video games and put their asses on some saddles then we would have a much more powerful lobby.

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