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  1. #1
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    Going to Build My First Road Bike!

    Life is pretty good and I find myself in a good position. I have built up what I desire for biking on the mountain (DH; FS; and a Gravel). I'm really enjoying the road and I see it as a great way to get my cardio in without a DAMN treadmill.

    I want to build a road bike. I scoured all of the internets (ha) and I decided to go with a Kish Ti road frame. Sorry to the purist on the forum; the mtb in me requires disc!

    On the fence about groupset. If I go mechanical I will go Dura Ace. If I go electronic I will go SRAM Red E-Tap. I am leaning electronic. Brakeset will be what comes with the group but rotors will be 160mm (I'm a little nutty).

    Headset probably will be Chris King. Could always be Cane Creek or Hope though.

    Haven't got much thought into seat or seatpost. That can wait.

    I could use some help with drop bars. I have IsoCore on my only road bike (Domane SLR) it's comfortable but I don't like the flex. It flexes when I hit a good climb and I'm grabbing the hoods.

    I will probably go with a Ti stem. Seems to make sense for this build.

    Thanks in advance for the comments and advice.

  2. #2
    Russian Troll Farmer
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    Well, Dura-Ace costs a lot and is really pretty fragile. Unless you plan to race, I'd stick with Ultegra or 105.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Well, Dura-Ace costs a lot and is really pretty fragile. Unless you plan to race, I'd stick with Ultegra or 105.
    I think you missed the part about the OP saying "life is pretty good." That calls for high-end, baby! I disagree with you saying DA is fragile. Well over 100,000 miles for me on DA and only replaced worn items. Never broke a single thing. Some of us like the best, no matter what the price.

  4. #4
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    I can't imagine that anyone who has used Dura Ace components saying that are fragile.

    There are a lot of words I could use to describe Dura Ace. Most of them are good, and none of them are "Fragile".

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  5. #5
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    Dura Ace: I've read probably as much as you can find on Dura Ace from a few # designations ago (which it seems anyone who had one says "cats meow") to the newest iteration. Besides "ugly" the only suspect part claimed has been the cassette. Most recommend burning it out and getting an Ultegra.

    In reading my original post I neglected a pretty important request for help! Fork!! I can sling some paragraphs on a Fox 34 or 36 and Rock Shox Pike and get into tokens and sag BUT the plain old carbon road fork...I am sad to say know ZERO about. About all I know is it must be able to accept 32 tires; be disc; and look kewl!!

    Please take me to school on road forks. I'm thinking comfort here...The only person I race is ME.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I can't imagine that anyone who has used Dura Ace components saying that are fragile.
    I have no idea where No-Time came up with that one. The only part of a Dura-Ace groupo that could be labeled as "fragile" might be the cassette because the cogs are Ti which is softer and wears faster than typical steel cogs. No to mention "fragile" would be the wrong word.

    Dura-Ace is a great group set aside from the cassette. Expensive, but you can probably get a great deal on 9000 right now since 9100 came out. Besides I think 9000 looks nicer too.

    I think Ultegra 6800 is still your best bang for the buck. But if you're flush, by all means go for the 9000.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  7. #7
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    My thoughts have been drifting back to Ti today as well. I found out that Litespeed has released some more affordable Ti frames that start around $1499. We have a great Litespeed dealer here too. Still looking and thinking. I like the new Emonda SL frame, but I like the idea of Ti frame a lot more I think. Outside of aerodynamics, I am having a hard time seeing why I wouldn't go this route for my next upgrade to be honest. Leaning heavily in this direction and looking forward to seeing your build. If I am missing something fellas/ladies, please correct me, but I really can't see much of a downside to Ti for road for the group ride, gran fondo, solo rider. I might look at again for gravel as well even though I really like the new Specialized Diverge.

    Budget Friendly:

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...7-litespeed-t6

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...7-litespeed-t5

    The Sweet Spot IMO:

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...6-litespeed-t3

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...7-litespeed-t2

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...espeed-t5-disc

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/08/09...titanium-ride/

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/03/21...awesome-rides/

    The Dream:

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...litespeed-t1sl

    https://shop.litespeed.com/collectio...peed-t1sl-disc

    2016 Buyer's Guide: Litespeed T1sl | Bicycling
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 07-07-2017 at 10:39 AM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  8. #8
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    Kish is specing Enve forks, would seem a safe solution. This build begs Super Record! For handlebar I actually prefer aluminum FSA compact with the flattened top section, believe it is now called Energy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I have no idea where No-Time came up with that one. The only part of a Dura-Ace groupo that could be labeled as "fragile" might be the cassette because the cogs are Ti which is softer and wears faster than typical steel cogs. No to mention "fragile" would be the wrong word.
    ...

    I think Ultegra 6800 is still your best bang for the buck. But if you're flush, by all means go for the 9000.
    Well, about 20 years ago, I spent pretty substantial money for a D/A crankset group (to match a set of D/A derailleurs), and before the first summer was over, I snapped the crank spindle.

    Still, it's nice to see that we both agree that Ultegra is a better deal. It seems that about 1/2 of the time Dura Ace is bought mostly for the "doosh factor" than any other reason. Unless you are actually racing at a fairly high level, all Dura Ace is going to do is relieve you of about an extra $500.......
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Well, about 20 years ago, I spent pretty substantial money for a D/A crankset group (to match a set of D/A derailleurs), and before the first summer was over, I snapped the crank spindle.

    Still, it's nice to see that we both agree that Ultegra is a better deal. It seems that about 1/2 of the time Dura Ace is bought mostly for the "doosh factor" than any other reason. Unless you are actually racing at a fairly high level, all Dura Ace is going to do is relieve you of about an extra $500.......
    I can't say I've ever heard of a crank spindle being snapped. I've heard of crank arms snapping, but they are usually FSA crap and cranks used by especially strong or heavy riders.

    The only Dura-Ace parts I would buy are their hubs. They are excellent hubs. For anything else, Ultegra does the job. Heck, 105 does the job, but Ultegra has come down in price so close to 105, it's worth getting Ultegra.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  11. #11
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    sounds like a nice build. You are specing USA branded frameset so why not continue the theme with ENVE wheelset, KIsh Custom stem but if flex is your enemy them get a DEDA 35mm bar. Trentacinque Archivi - Deda Elementi : Deda Elementi has a good choice of stiff cockpits. I'd go with SRAM over SHIMANO just to continue the American theme. Nothing wrong with Dura Ace though.
    Last edited by kiwisimon; 07-10-2017 at 12:22 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Well, Dura-Ace costs a lot and is really pretty fragile. Unless you plan to race, I'd stick with Ultegra or 105.
    Dura-Ace fragile? Really? Well, that certainly explains why I haven't had a single problem with my Dura-Ace bike in over 40k miles. Other than replacing cables, chains, brake pads, cassettes, stuff that wears out

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    Dura Ace: I've read probably as much as you can find on Dura Ace from a few # designations ago (which it seems anyone who had one says "cats meow") to the newest iteration. Besides "ugly" the only suspect part claimed has been the cassette. Most recommend burning it out and getting an Ultegra.

    In reading my original post I neglected a pretty important request for help! Fork!! I can sling some paragraphs on a Fox 34 or 36 and Rock Shox Pike and get into tokens and sag BUT the plain old carbon road fork...I am sad to say know ZERO about. About all I know is it must be able to accept 32 tires; be disc; and look kewl!!

    Please take me to school on road forks. I'm thinking comfort here...The only person I race is ME.
    3t funda or rígida. Solid both. Have the funda on my road Ti bike. 2 years no issues. I would upgrade to the rígida. The funda is no made in 1 1/8- 1 1/2( the new standard for rigidity). The rígida is.
    Enve is like the candy in the store. They are expensive and I don't think worth the money. Litespeed and lynskey bikes use 3t for their builds last time I checked (2 years ago).
    About your Ti stem. If you won't mind flex in the stem it is ok. The problem with Ti is the butting, the Ti used (6/4 vs 3/2.5 the most common for bike manufacturing) and the tube shape. Most Ti builds use carbon forks and stems to get increase rigidity and control/sprint handling. Ti stems depending on who makes it and how is made would be more giving or rigid. It will never be as rigid as a good carbon one. I am partial here to 3t, Easton or Enve. There are others but those are my favorites. Enve carbon products are expensive with looks and strong. My pick if money is not an issue would be Enve all over for carbon parts except the down tube. That one would be Ti for comfort.
    Custom made Enve wheels by prowheel builder. Or some Boras.
    Sram red etap (which I have on my Ti T1) with the old hexagon silver black design. Or maybe the whole black out etap would look good with the dark
    Enve set up.
    Etap is nice but the batteries are fragile. You can not put any pressure on them when removing the rear wheel or they will break at the tabs.
    Consider campy record EPS or súper record if money is no issue. Very well made and durable. My next build would prob be a record.
    I rode the DA 7900 for some 2 seasons and took me to cat3. It ended up with a broken crank. During a training sprint session the chainring side snapped and I ended with the crank arm/chainring clipped in hanging from my foot. I got it replaced with DA9000 and it is sitting in the shed gathering dust in its original box. The shifters also lost precision and tightness. I went Sram.
    Dura ace cassette doesn't last because cogs are Ti and wear out fast. Had many and decided ultegra rear cassette was the best. About 30gm heavier last time I checked but wears out nicely.
    These are my insighst. Good luck with the build!



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  14. #14
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    More I read (and maybe that isn't such a good thing) I'm leaning more and more to the following.

    If electronic: SRAM not enough to sound off and be able to verify the the why with this educated crowd. Just my leaning for now.

    Mechanical: If Shimano I'm really headed Ultegra. I do realize net warriors and only those with complaints tend to get on the soap box. But I don't race with anyone but myself. I'm a big SRAM fan in the mtb world. Need to ride a Red mechanical for a bit to feel it.

    Never had Campy on the radar and it's harsh enough with SHIMANO and SRAM.

    I've learned road bike needs a front D....if not ineould be SRAM as an easy decision. Ugh. Shouldn't feel tbis way....should be pure elation not frustration.

  15. #15
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    Kiwi...i follow what your saying. For Me, I have a very trusted wheel builder in CO. MIKE CURIAK. 4 sets from him and he has been aces. Think Clyde on some serious downhill on 29er csrbon. 2 years and that set still true. I really punish those rims. I go to him and I've learned to do what he says.

    I will also look to Hope for headset, pedals (I roll flats) and anything else I can. If not Chris King. I know my post sounds pretty snotty but the intention is the best bike I can build...at least in my mind.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    More I read (and maybe that isn't such a good thing) I'm leaning more and more to the following.

    If electronic: SRAM not enough to sound off and be able to verify the the why with this educated crowd. Just my leaning for now.

    Mechanical: If Shimano I'm really headed Ultegra. I do realize net warriors and only those with complaints tend to get on the soap box. But I don't race with anyone but myself. I'm a big SRAM fan in the mtb world. Need to ride a Red mechanical for a bit to feel it.

    Never had Campy on the radar and it's harsh enough with SHIMANO and SRAM.

    I've learned road bike needs a front D....if not ineould be SRAM as an easy decision. Ugh. Shouldn't feel tbis way....should be pure elation not frustration.
    Brother why wouldn't you go T1 SL DISC?
    I was looking at the kish Ti prices and they are about the same.
    I am a huge fan of titanium. I was thinking about building another T1SL disc. I have the 2015 frame. I will post a pic at the end.
    You said life is good but a budget will be helpful. How much are you looking at? What are your weight targets.
    When I built mine my target was sub 16lbs bike. I manage 15.8lbs with a Ti seat post.
    I went sram red, force, DA and ultegra. ALL OVER!
    Cassette and chain are ultegra for durability.
    Shifters and rear derailleur force. 30 grams less than Red bc the shifter paddles are carbon.
    Front derailleur Red. Got it at force price. It is only 10gm less
    Brakes DA. because I had them from before. Red has the lightest brakes but they are expensive when compared with DA.
    Crankset Sram red. It is the lightest of them all. Except campy and the cannondale one(very expensive 800$)
    When I built mine I gathered all the weights of all component groups. I created a spread sheet with weights and prices.
    At the end MY mix set up ended up weighting 4.02lbs. Understand bb30 red is 3.9lbs. GXP is more. DA 4.2-4.5 lbs don't remember and ultegra is over 5lbs.
    My set up ended up being less weight than DA but still 0.1 lbs more over sram red.
    DA Is not fragile. In my experience it losT tolerance over time and the shifting had more wiggle on the paddles. Some small piece broke off from the paddles.
    Sram shifts feels more precise at the shifters.
    This was my setup. In enjoy doing stuff like this with the aim to maximize the practicality and cost effectiveness of a project. But that is me. I wouldn't do ultegra group. It is too heavy and for the price is not worth it.
    In terms of weight from lightest to heaviest. Is RED, DA, Force, ultegra. Trick is in force the weight comes mainly from the crankset. The rest is at max 150 grams when all the components are added.
    Go Force all around except for the crankset. Go sram red in the crankset and ultegra chain and cassette. The ultegra cassette if I recall correctly was about 60 grams heavier than DA but it last twice longer.
    I can send you the spread sheet if you are interested. Although weights are old from 2016 groups.




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  17. #17
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    Charlatin,

    Would love both the pic of your frame and the spreadsheet.

  18. #18
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    If life is good, you need Record.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    Charlatin,

    Would love both the pic of your frame and the spreadsheet.
    The excel sheet is in the laptop. I will have to email it to me and then post it. I will later today. Here are the pics of the ride. 15.8lbs as you see it.
    If I were to replace the seatpost with a carbon one I would save maybe 100-150 grams depending on the seat post.
    And I will prob go tubeless which would save me 160-180 by removing the tubes.
    As it is is pretty light.
    About etap. I love it but they are having problems with the batteries cracking and falling off the bike.
    Sram is aware. I still love the system but it needs more tweaking. Up to you.
    Get a BB30 bike if you haven't got it yet. It will be stiffer although I'm 195-200lbs and for me that is important.







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  20. #20
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    That is one beautiful ride my man. I can see why your pushing it. Pretty damn light as well. I'm still looking E Tap but you never know I could always end up Ultegra and go the easy and less expensive route. I'm happy with Ultegra on my Domane.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    Charlatin,

    Would love both the pic of your frame and the spreadsheet.
    I don't have the ability to attach a spread sheet. I had to take a screen shot. If you want the spread sheet send me your email via msg here and I will email it to you.




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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    That is one beautiful ride my man. I can see why your pushing it. Pretty damn light as well. I'm still looking E Tap but you never know I could always end up Ultegra and go the easy and less expensive route. I'm happy with Ultegra on my Domane.
    Thanks. It was thought out. Regarding the spread sheet I went with the 4.26lbs group.
    It is a mix but I worked with what I had and if it was worth to change a component or not.
    I'm still using my DA 7900 brake calipers.
    The cassette is another thing. But ultegra cassette lasts a lot longer.



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  23. #23
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    Well i decided to start a new project. I just bought this beauty off nashbar. Helix 2015 M frame 1650$ with a fork!
    Im gonna build it with mechanical.

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  24. #24
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    Late to this thread, but feel the need to jump in. Having had bikes with both Ultegra and Dura Ace, can't help but recommend Ultegra, take the savings and get a top line set of wheels, functionally you won't notice a difference, when you're riding you can't see the dura ace motifs anyway.

  25. #25
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    Your first ride is amazing. My taste would be a carbon seat post. IMHO that ride is absolutely awesome. Helix doesn't do it for me. What do you plan to use it for?

    I'll sell you a 56 Santa Cruz (Carbon) Stigmata.... Cheap!! Maybe you need a CX ride.

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