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HELP with Canyon minimum seat height

14K views 32 replies 6 participants last post by  markgoldstein 
#1 ·
Bike
I'm in the market for n+1, looking for a bike for winter road riding, with these requirements:
– hydraulic flat mount disc brakes, Shimano
– 12mm thru axles front and rear
– will run 28mm tires with room
– plan to run Crud Mk3 fenders, so I don't need mount points, but I do need 3-4mm of *height* clearance above the wheel

Budget is tight – would like to stay under $2k. Will happily ride an alu frame if the savings are worth it; delighted to run Shimano 105, but won't drop down to 10s (tiagra).

Fit
I know my fit well, and it is an odd one. I have a VERY long torso and VERY short legs. I usually ride a frame with around 390mm of reach (I'm aiming for a total reach – frame + spacers + stem – of right at 485mm). I have bikes with effective Top Tube lengths ranging from 560mm to 580mm. So I ride relatively big bikes (long torso). But my saddle to BB height is 690mm (short legs). My usual setup is to have just a couple of cm of saddle to bar drop.

MY QUESTION
The Canyon Endurace CF Sl 7.0 looks like it ticks all the boxes and at a great price. I usually build up my own bikes (from china frames) and I do all my own wrenching, so I'm not worried about buying direct and setting the bike up myself.

Looking at their geo charts (which are, shockingly, incomplete) and emailing them for more details (fork length and rake, BB drop), it's clear to me that I could ride the Endurace in either a size M or size L.

But Canyon reports that the minimum seat height on the size M is 720mm....WAY too high for me.

But what I can't figure out is whether this limitation is caused only by their fancy seatpost technology, or whether it has something to do with the frame. The frame in size M has a seat tube length of 520, so at 690 I'd still be way above the top of the seat tube.

If I use a Canyon seatpost that isn't "split" can I go below 720?

Can I use a regular, non-Canyon seatpost on a Canyon bike?
 
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#3 ·
Thanks, Jay. If that's the case, then I can see any reason that I can't run a 690mm saddle height on a bike with a 520mm seat tube.

And for the record: I asked Canyon this question and googled every way I could think of, but no luck.

thanks again!
 
#4 ·
Sure no problem. It's on their web site but the way. When you go into the model, then see components, you can expand each component listing for more detail. It doesn't allow me to cut/paste but it definitely says 27.2 mm diameter. Which as you probably know is one of the 'standard' sizes so won't be a problem finding a regular style one.
 
#5 ·
Yes, I saw that it was the standard size of 27.2, but it was the Canyon folks themselves that made me less than certain: when I asked about the minimum seat height they responded by suggesting that there was just no way the saddle could go lower than that and that I should therefore choose a size S frame.
 
#6 ·
Where does it say there is a minimum saddle height? I see the chart has ranges, but are those anything more than sizing guides?

If there is an issue, it may relate the seat binder, which is several inch down inside the frame - but that looks like a maximum height issue.

The other issue some frames have is the post bottoming out on the bottle cage bolts. Which is fixed by cutting the post short.


It would probably be good to verify that you won't have an issue with Canyon before buying. This seat binder makes me think that standard seat posts might not be long enough or have the minimum insertion lines in the right place for this frame.
 
#7 ·
Where does it say there is a minimum saddle height? I see the chart has ranges, but are those anything more than sizing guides?
According to Canyon tech support, those are maximums and minimums, not ranges. This is what they told me over the phone and email.

If there is an issue, it may relate the seat binder, which is several inch down inside the frame - but that looks like a maximum height issue.
That's exactly what I thought.

The other issue some frames have is the post bottoming out on the bottle cage bolts. Which is fixed by cutting the post short.
Again, this was precisely my thinking.

It would probably be good to verify that you won't have an issue with Canyon before buying. This seat binder makes me think that standard seat posts might not be long enough or have the minimum insertion lines in the right place for this frame.
And this is my worry: I have followed up with them and hoping for another reply, but at the moment Canyon has only really said "that's the MINIMUM saddle height" without giving any explanation to WHY. So they aren't helping very much.
 
#15 ·
I’d probably go with a M and a 120 stem. But in dealing with my bike fit needs I long ago decided not to worry too much about standover height. I ride one bike that doesn’t have enough standover height for my short legs, but in 6000 miles it’s never been a problem. When I put my foot down at stops I lean the bike a bit.

All of that said, it’s also now clear to me that the Ultimate geometry is better for me than the Endurace. The trend toward shorter and higher is no good for me. Of course, right now there are no Cheaper ultimates available in the US store - so I’d have to wait.

Was hoping for something to ride in December in the rain...
 
#24 ·
I'm the OP, just wrapping up this thread. I bought a Canyon Endurace in size M, and can now report:

1. There is NO issue with saddle height. The seatpost has little min/max tick boxes on it, and set at 690mm (BB to top of saddle) I could still lower it quite a bit. As discussed here, it's a very standard seatpost. (The securing mechanism is really cool). It may be that I get less of the Canyon-intended seatpost flex, but if so, I can't tell. And the bike IS extremely comfortable.

2. I'm running a 120mm stem and just one small spacer and easily dialed in my stack/reach fit. The bike feels slightly smaller than others I've ridden, and I get slightly more toe overlap. I think a size S with a 130 stem would have been pushing it, and as discussed, the size L just had too much stack for my fit.

Only one ride in, but so far I'm thoroughly impressed with the bike. Thanks again to everyone who helped here.
 
#27 ·
I have a new Aeroad and there is nothing preventing me from going lower than the minimum mark on the back of the seat post even with the non-round aero post. I am kind of inbetween sizes but I went with the medium to get the 172.5 cranks and wider bars over the small so this puts me right at the minimum seat height.

I wonder if the way Canyon designed the carbon layers in the post to have more flex for comfort or something like that but that in turn means the post is not designed for clamping loads above the minimum mark in the post. I am surprized the Canyon Rep wasn't able to directly answer the question because the people I talked to were very knowledgeable about the questions I had before ordering my bike.
 
#28 ·
I wonder if the way Canyon designed the carbon layers in the post to have more flex for comfort or something like that but that in turn means the post is not designed for clamping loads above the minimum mark in the post. I am surprized the Canyon Rep wasn't able to directly answer the question because the people I talked to were very knowledgeable about the questions I had before ordering my bike.
Yes, exactly: see my follow-up in most #13, where Canyon very helpfully explained that those height numbers were about getting full flex out of the seat post.

I have mine below that number and it's still by far the most comfortable road bike I've ridden.
 
#30 ·
They gave me the following for the Endurace CF SL:

Fork Length = 384
Fork Rake = 44

They then told me that the BB drop is "not published" on that bike, but that they "measured it" at 75mm.

FWIW, I used those numbers in a stack and reach calculator to dial in my fit (as I've done on the 3 previous bikes I've built) and it seemed to be spot on.

Canyon customer service was helpful, and the bike has been fantastic. But I still have no idea why they don't have full geometry information online, given that they sell direct.
 
#31 ·
Brilliant, thank you! (Canyon still haven't replied to my query...)

Those figures make a Medium much too big for me - 2.5cm extra stack compared to my current bike!

The Small is better (just 5mm extra stack) but the reach is 1cm too short with the stock 100mm stem. Ideally I'd need a 110mm -8 degree stem, but that's impossible on the integrated stem/hbar models. I'd either have to choose the base model with the separate stem/hbar, or ask Canyon to swap the stock 100mm for a 110mm (which I believe you can do after purchase).
 
#32 ·
Those figures make a Medium much too big for me - 2.5cm extra stack compared to my current bike!

Is your current bike running with the stem angled down, and with no spacers? If so, then the medium definitely has too much stuck, but I was surprised how much the stack height is reduced when you flip the stem down – so you might be surprised.

The endurace has more stack (relative to reach) than any bike I've ridden before, but I have it set up with fewer spacers (just 10mm, rather than 20 or 25mm) and with the stem angled down. In my case I also went to a longer stem, so even less stack height when angled down.

I'd either have to choose the base model with the separate stem/hbar, or ask Canyon to swap the stock 100mm for a 110mm (which I believe you can do after purchase).
I couldn't get Canyon to swap the stem for me, but they did sell me a different length one, in addition to the bike, at a fair price. I'd think for the higher end bike with the integrated stem you might have a better shot, but in my case they were pretty adamant that you could only buy the bike as it was listed on the website.
 
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