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  1. #1
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    Help - Moots or IF Crown Jewel Ti?

    I have poured over the messages on this board and others back several years trying to gain information on these two frame builders.

    I am switching from a Litespeed Tuscanny after 7 years finally moving to the "dream bike." I do not race but ride appx 150 miles per week and several long charity rides throughout the season.

    I am sure that I cannot make a "wrong" decision here but any advice would be helpful in terms of which company / model to prefer. Any questions to ask would also be greatly appreciated as I sort this out. I am working with a phenomenal folks at Fitwerx but I want to make sure that I am as educated about the choice as I can be.

    While I know that there are other great builders and companies out there, I have narrowed down my search to these two.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Cross Bike Collector.....
    Reputation: Phat&SlowVelo's Avatar
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    Fwiw

    Quote Originally Posted by rs1115
    I have poured over the messages on this board and others back several years trying to gain information on these two frame builders.

    I am switching from a Litespeed Tuscanny after 7 years finally moving to the "dream bike." I do not race but ride appx 150 miles per week and several long charity rides throughout the season.

    I am sure that I cannot make a "wrong" decision here but any advice would be helpful in terms of which company / model to prefer. Any questions to ask would also be greatly appreciated as I sort this out. I am working with a phenomenal folks at Fitwerx but I want to make sure that I am as educated about the choice as I can be.

    While I know that there are other great builders and companies out there, I have narrowed down my search to these two.

    Thanks in advance
    You've picked two great companies, Both IF and Moots are small bike companies of about the same size, aroung 15 or so employees. They both work through dealers, all IF's are custom. Moots has stock sizes, and also does custom. IF has their own in house paint shop and I've seen some serious beauties come out of that paint booth. I have both Moots and IF, I love them both. My Moots are stock, my IF was custom, great experiance.
    This is a tough decision for you, I can't nit pick either one. I don't think you can make a wrong decision here, go with your gut, which one speaks to you? That's your answer.
    Have compassion for your fellow man

  3. #3
    eminence grease
    Reputation: terry b's Avatar
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    You pretty much answered your own question - neither will be a bad choice. Both will be excellent bikes.

    I've gone to the Moots well twice, because I like the way their bikes look, I like the whole Moots corporate philospohy and I like the way the people at Moots responded to my questions. In one case they guided me in a direction I had not considered with the result being a very nice bicycle.

    My experience with IF was not so pleasant and so there is no IF bike sitting in my Bike House. In their case, it came from a relatively strong-armed attempt to force me to support their dealer network and to buy from a shop that I did not care to do business with. Interestingly, Moots asked about the very same shop but had no problem when I told them that I didn't want to use them.

    But none of that has anything to do with the bikes themselves which are superb. There are advocates for both here on the forum. In terms of customer satisfaction, there have been a few stories about IF dropping the ball, whereas I can't ever recall the same story about Moots.

    Simple answer - pick the one you like the looks of.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    ... Moots asked about the very same shop but had no problem when I told them that I didn't want to use them....
    Did they sell a frame directly to you?

  5. #5
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    My own personal preference would be a Moots because I like their use of oversized round tubes, and their rear breezer dropouts to me are as good as eye candy gets whereas I do not like the look of the way IF does their ti dropouts. The aesthetics of Moots welds IMO is as good as anyone out there. My own IF story is much like one already told above. 3 years ago I was looking at custom ti and IF insisted that I go through my local authorized IF dealer to order the frameset. This shop had completely screwed up a previous bike build which I had them do during a time when I was too busy at work to do the build myself. Another time this shop sold me a pair of Velomax wheels which had a spoke break within 2 months of easy training rides, and it was a total nightmare working through them to get a warranty repair. After that they had no chance of getting any more business from me, and I certainly was not going to hand them a nice fat sales commission on an IF when I already knew exactly what geometry and ride characteristics I wanted in the IF frame. Because of IF's insistence on working through this dealer I never ordered the bike.

    But its your money, buy what you want and like the best, no one can tell you what you like better. :-) Just to make your decision possibly harder, if it were me i'd be looking at Kish, DeSalvo and Eriksen also, in fact I'd favor any of those 3 over both a Moots or an IF but that's just my own biased opinion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostzapper2007
    But its your money, buy what you want and like the best, no one can tell you what you like better. :-) Just to make your decision possibly harder, if it were me i'd be looking at Kish, DeSalvo and Eriksen also, in fact I'd favor any of those 3 over both a Moots or an IF but that's just my own biased opinion.
    Please don't flame me, as I know ou stated that these were the builders yo wanted to use, but I second the Kent Eriksen idea. He built me a fantatic bike and will treat you right.

  7. #7
    Windrider (Stubborn)
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    You will hear much about the beauty of Moots welds, but IMO, that is meaningless. Their welds don't improve the quality or the ride of the bike one bit over IF (or any other builder).

    To me, the differentaitor would be paint. If you want your Ti bike to have some paint on it, I would go with IF, While you can get a Moots painted, I think you have to work with a third party (I could be wrong though). if you don't want it painted, then either bike will work for you. Look at both bare ti bikes (they do look different) and pick the one whose look speaks to you.

    The only oither way to choose is by dealer (but it sounds like your LBS handles both).

    Both make well riding bikes. You will hear bad & good experiences about both. Moots owners tend to be more "converts" in their praise of their bikes than IF owners (sorta like reformed smokers if you know what I mean), but I'm not sure that means anything positive or negative.

    No bad choice here, although if I was going Ti, I think there are better choices...YMMV,

    Is there any difference in wait time right now?

    Good Luck & post Pics when you receive it.

    Len



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  8. #8
    eminence grease
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olancha
    Did they sell a frame directly to you?
    No, I ordered it through an RBR member who works at a shop in a different state. Someone I could trust to do the deal well.
    You'd be better off with a netbook, they do everything better.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len J
    You will hear much about the beauty of Moots welds, but IMO, that is meaningless. Their welds don't improve the quality or the ride of the bike one bit over IF (or any other builder).

    To me, the differentaitor would be paint. If you want your Ti bike to have some paint on it, I would go with IF, While you can get a Moots painted, I think you have to work with a third party (I could be wrong though). if you don't want it painted, then either bike will work for you. Look at both bare ti bikes (they do look different) and pick the one whose look speaks to you.

    The only oither way to choose is by dealer (but it sounds like your LBS handles both).

    Both make well riding bikes. You will hear bad & good experiences about both. Moots owners tend to be more "converts" in their praise of their bikes than IF owners (sorta like reformed smokers if you know what I mean), but I'm not sure that means anything positive or negative.

    No bad choice here, although if I was going Ti, I think there are better choices...YMMV,

    Is there any difference in wait time right now?

    Good Luck & post Pics when you receive it.

    Len
    It is true that a weld does not make a bike ride better, but they sure are pretty to look at, and they display superb craftsmanship skills of the Moots welders. A Joe Bell paint job does not make a frame ride any better either, but they sure make those Kirk frames along with the frames of others look great. And at this price level visual craftsmanship and visual artistry is definitely part of what is being paid for.

  10. #10
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    i'm also looking into building a ti frame and having it painted, i've worked with both in the past and had good experiences. i even bought my IF through a non IF shop with no hassles. if you have any Q's re this just call matty b at IF. i'd like to throw in another builder to your final two. kent eriksen, founder of moots, is back at it making bikes under his own name. http://www.kenteriksen.com/ and spectrum isn't all that far from his shop.

    e

  11. #11
    Scary Teddy Bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyro
    Please don't flame me, as I know ou stated that these were the builders yo wanted to use, but I second the Kent Eriksen idea. He built me a fantatic bike and will treat you right.

    I have to agree, IF I was thinking of a custom Ti right now, it would be Eriksen hands down for me. Moots would be a close second, and IF would be third. But that's my opinion, and in the end, all that really matters is what YOU want.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." John Stuart Mill, 1866

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  12. #12
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    If you can't decide get the one that you think looks best. If you still can't decide get the one that is cheaper. Personally, I think the Moots looks better and I'm pretty sure it's cheaper.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the advice

    I appreciate all of the comments. Thanks,

    rs

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