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  1. #1
    AOE
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    Help! Vamoots or Serotta Classique

    I know this ? has been posted here a few times, but haven't found one recently and with a comparison to the newer(returning) Classique line.

    I'm about to put down my deposit on the Classique tomorrow but after I take about a 2hour test ride(my second) of the Moots Compact. I know and agree with all of the lust over the Moots welds but at the end of the day, what are the ride characteristics that I should be looking for while on my test ride? I've ridden my buddies Legend and and Concours so I've got a good sense of Colorado Concept tubing and really, really liked the ride. Any idea/specs on tubing characteristics of Moots titanium? General opinions between the 2 and anyone here have a Classique? I like the naked Ti look and don't care about the paint options, etc. Just interested in the ride, warranty/service, and quality. I'm going Campy Record with whichever I choose....any opinions on Chorus vs. Record vs. Dura Ace are also welcome...

    I'm 5'9", 190lbs. I ride about 3-4x per week - 50% of my riding is training rides around 30-40miles on average and the rest are a bit longer rides - I only do 3-4 centuries per year. I ride a lot of steep terrain and haven't raced in a few years and don't have any real plans to do so anytime in the near future.

    Help me blow all of my money on one of these bikes....thanks for the opinions!!
    Last edited by AOE; 06-19-2009 at 07:45 AM.

  2. #2
    AOE
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    Also...

    I've spent silly amounts of time riding/researching IF, Seven, Litespeed, etc....and it boiled down to these 2 for me for a bunch of reasons.

    Thanks!

  3. #3
    Steaming piles of opinion
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    With the Classique, you aren't dealing with Colorado Concept tubing. The Classique is built of non-butted tubing. That lines it up well (in that regard) with the standard moots.

    IMO, that's OK. Relatively little of the way a bike rides or feels is affected by butting, which is mostly about weight. The large measures of stiffness and road feel come from tube diameters and shapes. Since both use plain, round tubes, the comparison is pretty direct.

    People who get all goggle-eyed over Moots welds have only seen Moots welds. Plenty of others in range are equally good, and the Moots bead-blast finish hides many imperfections that other's brighter finishes do not. Yes, they are excellent - but it's not the differentiator that it once was.

    If you bought both and they left off the head badges, you couldn't tell 'em apart. Don't over-think it. Test rides will tell you what tires and saddles to buy, and little else.
    A good habit is as hard to break as a bad one..

  4. #4
    AOE
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    Thanks Dan, good info....anyone else??

  5. #5
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    I have never understood anyone gushing over anybody's welds. What I gush over is the great customer service Serotta gave me when my new Legend's DS dropout developed a crack. I contacted them on a Monday and had the frame back on a Friday in time to build it back up to ride RAIN on Saturday, 18 days total from the time that I contacted Serotta until I had the bike back. They even overnighted it at no charge. They really go out of there way to get warranty service done. Granted it was bare titanium and no painting was involved. They obviously could not have turned a painted frame around that quickly. Service like that is just not available everywhere. I think my LBS talked directly with Ben Serotta on the initial call. I was glad to get a chance to thank him personally at NAHBS.

    I was sold on Serotta before but now I would not consider looking anywhee else.

  6. #6
    AOE
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    Thanks, dekindy...I've heard nothing but fantastic things about serotta service...did you have the support package they offer or this was just part of the warranty?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOE
    Thanks, dekindy...I've heard nothing but fantastic things about serotta service...did you have the support package they offer or this was just part of the warranty?
    The support package that you refer to I am assuming is the crash protection program and covers crashes only. Yes I have that. The protection costs $250 for 5 years. However it also includes a free 5-year Serotta owner's club membership that alone would cost $100 for 5 years which includes a nice Castelli made Serotta jersey.

    My dropout crack was not as a result of a crash so it was covered under the standard warranty. I explained to them that I had hit a chuckhole in the preceding weeks that caused my White Industries LAS rear hub to explode. Their reply was that a chuckhole should not cause a dropout to crack and it was fixed with no questions asked. David Kirk was a Serotta employee for years and I believe designed the dropouts. He is a frequent contributor to the Serotta forum and his comment was that in his opinion the rear hub breaking and chuckhole incident, which caused the hub to break, were unrelated.

    Incidentally, I discovered the hairline crack while thoroughly cleaning my bicycle. I had removed the rear wheel and thought I was trying to wipe off a smudge of grease. Luckily I caught it early. Erratic shifting after a tuneup was the only symptom. The mechanics do good work at my LBS so I suspected there was something wrong which is probably why I was looking so closely.

    I was told that warranty work is the highest priority and gets moved to the head of the line at Serotta. You can bet that I believe that. All these guys are bicycle fanatics and they can feel your pain when your highly prized Serotta is broken and cannot be ridden.

    Good luck with your decision. They are both great bikes. One of the strongest riders at my training ride has a Moots Vamoots and just recently purchased a carbon bike. Maybe you will eventually have both. Now that sound like a plan!

    Join the Serotta forum. I am sure they will be eager to help you with your decision.

  8. #8
    Meow!
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    I have a Moots, but because it's the only Ti frame I've ridden, I can't compare it to the Serotta. However, I don't really think you can go too wrong with either as far as the frame itself.

    Are there any differences in geometry that makes one a better fit for you than the other or will influence how the bike will handle. IMO, geometry will be far more significant in determining how the each bike rides than any subtle difference in the tubing.
    You can't change people. They have to change themselves. Just like babies.

  9. #9
    AOE
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    Thanks all...

    Thanks for all the input gang....I went with the Serotta. I agree with everyone that I probably couldn't go wrong with either. At the end of the day, I went with my gut and now I've got to wait the painful 3 weeks until it's delivered to my LBS!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOE
    Thanks for all the input gang....I went with the Serotta. I agree with everyone that I probably couldn't go wrong with either. At the end of the day, I went with my gut and now I've got to wait the painful 3 weeks until it's delivered to my LBS!!
    Congratulations. Let us know how it rides. Have you decided on components or will you be transferring existing equipment from another frame?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by danl1
    People who get all goggle-eyed over Moots welds have only seen Moots welds. Plenty of others in range are equally good, and the Moots bead-blast finish hides many imperfections that other's brighter finishes do not. Yes, they are excellent - but it's not the differentiator that it once was.

    If you bought both and they left off the head badges, you couldn't tell 'em apart. Don't over-think it. Test rides will tell you what tires and saddles to buy, and little else.
    Although I agree with you on most of what you wrote, I disagree with the weld aesthetics comment. I have seen PLENTY of different makers of Ti frames. I frequent bike shops whenever I am in a new city on layovers and often re-visit various high-end shops in my town (Boulder) that carry Serotta, Seven, Moots, Lynskeys, Litespeeds, and Titus. Moots is a notch above in terms of aesthetics- how each bead is almost machine like in its precision. In all honesty, Seven and Serotta weld aesthetics doesn't come close. Dean and Titus are the closest in terms of beautiful welds, but IMO not as consistently perfect as Moots. But as you basically surmised, welds don't equate to ride quality (+1). That being said, I think I would get a Titus or Seven over a Moots because I am not a huge fan of Moots' finish. Also, I have always had a soft spot for Titus, being a former rabid mountain biker, and Seven's curved S-stays reminiscent of C-dales are a work of art. I also like that both Titus and Seven do full customization whereas Moots only does custom geometry and not tube manipulation. I would love a Legend if I found one on the Serotta Garage at a killer price like another member here luckily did!

    I just saw that the OP bought the Serotta. Can't go wrong with either really. Post pics and give us a ride report when you can!! Enjoy!
    Ordered and Fitted for my Custom DEAN Titanium frame on Sept 17th, 2008. Finally got it in Oct, 2010!!!

  12. #12
    AOE
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    Quote Originally Posted by dekindy
    Congratulations. Let us know how it rides. Have you decided on components or will you be transferring existing equipment from another frame?

    Here we go!....I'm for sure going Campy...likely the Chorus 11. I've chosen Chorus in the past as I didn't see enough of an advantage with the Record to justify the price increase(for the training rides/group rides that I mostly stick with). Now, I haven't looked at the specs for the new Chorus/Record/Super Record components to make my final decision...any thoughts here?

  13. #13
    AOE
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    Ok, did a bit of research. On average, Record is ~$500 more than the Chorus gruppo for a weight savings of 4 ounces. Also, places where Record/Super Record save some weight such as making 3/6, respectively, cogs out of Ti to the cassette may actually make them a bit less durable. I think I'll stick with the Chorus 11 and use the money towards another set of wheels...
    Last edited by AOE; 06-21-2009 at 09:01 PM.

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