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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    A troll with empty stomach. He was well fed for last 24 hours.
    No, no, no!
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    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Are you the same dude in another thread that thanked the Lord every day for disc brakes?
    You should retreat to your safe space and get out your coloring books and play dough. BTW , Specialized and Cannondale are not crap bikes, BB30 BB are just fine and disc brakes are much better than rim.

  3. #53
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    Well,

    After eating way too much popcorn these past few days, I am now firmly convinced:


    Only thru-axles, not quick releases, make cyclists more horny

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    You should retreat to your safe space and get out your coloring books and play dough. BTW , Specialized and Cannondale are not crap bikes, BB30 BB are just fine and disc brakes are much better than rim.
    Sure, if that's all ya got.

    But if you rode what came before, you'd see these technological innovations from a different perspective. .

    There are tradeoffs satisfying the gods of lightweight manufacturers would rather you not think about. That includes BB30 BBs and these paper thin discs on road bike disc brakes. They want you to get a new bike every 5 years, you know, to "play it safe."

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Sure, if that's all ya got.

    But if you rode what came before, you'd see these technological innovations from a different perspective. .

    There are tradeoffs satisfying the gods of lightweight manufacturers would rather you not think about. That includes BB30 BBs and these paper thin discs on road bike disc brakes. They want you to get a new bike every 5 years, you know, to "play it safe."
    Zzzzzzzzzzzz

  6. #56
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    Steel has come a long way. Frames are significantly lighter than they were in the past. However, with the right aluminum and/or carbon bits, you can build a steel framed bike that rivals most aluminum and carbon bikes in terms of weight. Please recognize that I said most, not all. At my LBS, one of the mechanics rides a 54 centimeter Fairdale Goodship the he built up back in 2016. It has a full Dura Ace 9000 gruppo, some handbuilt sub 1400 gram wheels and weighs 16.1 lbs. If he swapped out his cockpit and saddle, I'm sure he can get it a bit lighter.

  7. #57
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    You're right. My mistake. I believe that over 90% of cycling is marketing BS. Most of the improvements won't benefit most riders. Thank you for reminding me.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelgianHammer View Post
    +1....in a major way.

    The number of riders of carbon frames over here (much like I suspect it is Stateside) is quite enormous when showing up at large group rides, randos, and/or events & local/regional races.

    Equally, the number of riders (which are not sponsored) of those carbon frames (both brand spanking new and/or only a few-to-5-6 years old) b!tching & complaining about the incessant creaking, groaning, crackling, etc of that cabon frame in the bottom-bracket and/or headset and/or seatpost/seatstays connection, is equally large.

    Most of these people have come to accept it as a fact-of-life now.

    I went the opposite direction recently.

    I bought a Trek Emonda 300 Alu, and with high-end components the bike is not only equal to any high-end carbon today in every respect, it is actually better imho. How? Basically it boils down to this: the bike is dead silent over both smooth roads and/or rough tarmac, no matter what I do. For example, it is silent when standing in any gear and/or ring, or when climbing as hard as you can. It is silent when sprinting.

    I cannot say this about any carbon bike I have ever, over near two decades, ridden.

    It's just my 2 cents.

    Imho, carbon frames (and trust me, I will get flamed heavily for saying this here) are a load of bullsh!t that's been foisted on the public. Carbon in components is great. Carbon in frames. Meh. Not so much. I don't care what manufacturer you are. And I don't care if your RBR.com earning ad revenue from those carbon frame manufactuers. Carbon frames suck when it comes to total rider pleasure & enjoyment.

    Anybody that tells you any different is/has done nothing but fool themself into believing all is ok.....even when it is not.

    Let the flaming begin.....
    +2....I have two carbon bikes (Cannondale Evo Hi Mod, Felt F1) and one aluminum bike (Cannondale CAAD10). I have to agree with you on ride. My CAAD10 feels just as comfortable as my Evo HiMod. The felt actually has the harshest ride of the three, and it's full carbon.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Be careful of the surprise, no warning fatigue of that alu frame. They do tear just like a soda can given the right impetus.
    No warning when carbon assplodes on you too. Had two aluminum frames fail in my life. Bothcracked on chainstay drive side, but stayed together enough for me to stop. Had one carbon frame fail. Was doing a track stand at a light. As I applied torque to accelerate, driveside chainstay snapped of Not the type of failure you want. Can't always see crack in carbon. due to it being layers it can (and does) fail from the inside out. You can't see that type of failure.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    You beat me to it! Steel gives the whole thing: comfort, resilience, stiffness, strength, crashworthiness, road feel. A great steel bike sings. Working with it stimulates the senses. When you punch it up the climb, it settles into a nice rhythm. When you want to quit the century at mile 85, it says, "Keep playing big boy! I'll get you there!" What cycling is all about, yessir!
    +1... This is true. that ride quality that everyone is trying to design into carbon and aluminum frames, is inherent in steel. I haven't raced steel in decades, but I will be buying one soon enough.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
    No warning when carbon assplodes on you too. Had two aluminum frames fail in my life. Bothcracked on chainstay drive side, but stayed together enough for me to stop. Had one carbon frame fail. Was doing a track stand at a light. As I applied torque to accelerate, driveside chainstay snapped of Not the type of failure you want. Can't always see crack in carbon. due to it being layers it can (and does) fail from the inside out. You can't see that type of failure.
    What are all these frames that you are cracking the drive side stays on? Are you crashing a lot or do you weigh over 250lbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
    +2....I have two carbon bikes (Cannondale Evo Hi Mod, Felt F1) and one aluminum bike (Cannondale CAAD10). I have to agree with you on ride. My CAAD10 feels just as comfortable as my Evo HiMod. The felt actually has the harshest ride of the three, and it's full carbon.
    If one of these bikes rides more comfortably than another, you may want to look into the most likely culprit - your tires!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    What are all these frames that you are cracking the drive side stays on? Are you crashing a lot or do you weigh over 250lbs?



    If one of these bikes rides more comfortably than another, you may want to look into the most likely culprit - your tires!
    There are obviously a wide range of carbon frames, some strong, others weak. The drive side chain stay has to handle the greatest torsional flex, maxed out in a race, so that's where a weak frame will break first.

    I've heard of and seen steel frames break at the drive side chain stay, right where it was brazed onto the BB shell, usually from too much heat from the brazing torch. Have never seen a problem on a hand brazed steel frame, only the cheaper machine brazed models. Heck, Pinarello heavies up the drive side chain stay, doesn't he, just for that reason?

    Sure, the tires are the first line of defense absorbing road shocks and rider can soften them up for comfort. But IME, if the frame doesn't absorb shocks, you'll feel beat up anyway after a 5 hour ride, no matter how soft the tires are.

    Shock waves travel along straight paths. Placing a curve in the tube, the shock waves radiate off into the surrounding space. They don't follow around the curve. So curved top tubes shed off shock waves nicely, contributing to comfort on the bars and seat. Also, skinny tubing resonates with shock waves. If super stiff, it'll be harsh riding, but butting them to 0.5 mm in the middle makes them shock absorbent.

    Klein got around the discomfort of fat Cannondale frames mainly by making the tubing skinnier. A few steel builders fattened the tubing to increase handling response. Riders complained about discomfort and went back to 1" top tubes and 1 1/8" down tubes. The legendary Colnago carbon line started with the C-40, has also stuck with skinner tubing when other builders were going monocoque. The skinny tubing gives them their great reputation. They ride like the old steel bikes Colnago built his rep on and still produces. Most carbon frames are skinner than 10 years ago, to dial in shock absorption. They heavy up the joints, where they break, with internal lugs, approximating the butting process used in steel frames, and achieving the same results: comfort without giving up response.

    Then again, as Maynard Hershon once said, "Does a bike have to last forever?" Enjoy what ya got.

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