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  1. #1
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    Masi Vincere Frame Cracked / Defective Frame . My review. PICS!!!

    Just wanted to post up my experience with my 2003 Masi Vincere. The bike had never been raced or crashed. This bike had been an absolute blast to ride and I am very said to part ways. This has served as my commuter bike and has been very reliable with it's 9-speed Shimano groupo. A couple of weeks ago I developed a squeak that I thought was coming from the BB area. The squeak was only when I was out of the saddle, pedaling hard. I tried snugging up the BB, cranks, chain rings, pedals, etc., etc. with no luck. Tried opening up both brakes to see if the noise would go away, no luck. About to give up I flipped the bike over to inspect further to find cracks on both chain stays. The cracks formed on the dimples/crimps that were intended to give more clearance for tires. The cracks were allowing the frame to flex enough to allow the tire to rub on both chain stays. Scary to think that two days before I was riding the Como street ride in a pack of 50+ reaching speeds of 40+ mph.






    I contacted the Masi warranty department explaining my issue. Upon further research I found threads with other Masi owners having the same problem. One guy's bike even "broke in half" at the same spot. A Masi employee had responded about the defective chain stays here (for the same model and year of my frame):
    http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in...p/t-99654.html
    Masiguy (Tim Jackson):
    "Yes, there were some frames from that time period that experienced cracks in the frame at the crimp in the stay. Since then, as mentioned above, we changed the way the stays were formed and the crimp was removed/ lessened.

    If ever there's a problem with a Masi frame, we have a limited lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. Never hesitate to contact me if there are problems or questions;"

    Unfortunately I was unable to find my 7 year old receipt and the shop the bike was purchased at had no record of the sale. The Masi rep would not cover the frame under warranty and refused to give me even a discount on another frame. I realize losing the receipt was my fault, but would have liked to see Masi step up and fix their own mistake.

    IMO, this would be like Toyota telling customers that they wont fix the faulty accelerators unless you have a receipt or are the original owner. Masi is very lucky that no one was injured.

    Beware!

    Any ideas on a replacement? It would get ridden 30 miles round trip 3-5 days per week and sometimes taken out for group rides.
    Last edited by 9kfever; 02-16-2011 at 02:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    why is this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9kfever
    Just wanted to post up my experience with my 2003 Masi Vincere. The bike had never been raced or crashed. This bike had been an absolute blast to ride and I am very said to part ways. This has served as my commuter bike and has been very reliable with it's 9-speed Shimano groupo. A couple of weeks ago I developed a squeak that I thought was coming from the BB area. The squeak was only when I was out of the saddle, pedaling hard. I tried snugging up the BB, cranks, chain rings, pedals, etc., etc. with no luck. Tried opening up both brakes to see if the noise would go away, no luck. About to give up I flipped the bike over to inspect further to find cracks on both chain stays. The cracks formed on the dimples/crimps that were intended to give more clearance for tires. The cracks were allowing the frame to flex enough to allow the tire to rub on both chain stays. Scary to think that two days before I was riding the Como street ride in a pack of 50+ reaching speeds of 40+ mph.






    I contacted the Masi warranty department explaining my issue. Upon further research I found threads with other Masi owners having the same problem. One guy's bike even "broke in half" at the same spot. A Masi employee had responded about the defective chain stays here (for the same model and year of my frame):
    http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in...p/t-99654.html
    Masiguy (Tim Jackson):
    "Yes, there were some frames from that time period that experienced cracks in the frame at the crimp in the stay. Since then, as mentioned above, we changed the way the stays were formed and the crimp was removed/ lessened.

    If ever there's a problem with a Masi frame, we have a limited lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. Never hesitate to contact me if there are problems or questions;"

    Unfortunately I was unable to find my 7 year old receipt and the shop the bike was purchased at had no record of the sale. The Masi rep would not cover the frame under warranty and refused to give me even a discount on another frame. I realize losing the receipt was my fault, but would have liked to see Masi step up and fix their own mistake.

    IMO, this would be like Toyota telling customers that they wont fix the faulty accelerators unless you have a receipt or are the original owner. Masi is very lucky that no one was injured.

    Beware!

    Any ideas on a replacement? It would get ridden 30 miles round trip 3-5 days per week and sometimes taken out for group rides.
    You dropped nearly 2 grand on a bike and dont have the receipt?

    Hell, I still have my Brava receipt from 99.

    Masi is rather specific about their warranty, I researched the hell out their product. Toyota is a tad more money than a bike and yeah, I dont lose the car receipt either BUT, cars have titles and thus, they kind of know, you own the vehicle and are the oiriginal owner......
    This old anvil has cracked alot of hammers

  3. #3
    T K
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    If you are here to get advice on a new frame purchace, you will get lots of answers.
    If you are here to b!tch about your broken bike, not gonna fly. Old bike, no receipt, no chance. Masi owes you nothing. I.M.O.

  4. #4
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    I'm no lawyer, but the statement from Tim Jackson may be an admission that the frame was defective in its design and therefore fails in terms of its implied warranty. An implied warranty is one meant to protect all consumers from defective goods and holds even when there is no express warranty. I guess you could do some research and take them to small claims court - not sure what you need to establish that you are the proper owner in that scenario (does the shop owner recall selling you the frame?).

  5. #5
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    cash sale?

    Did you pay cash? If you paid with a check or with a credit card, the records of the transaction are somewhere still (most llikely). You might be able to get hold of them with a little trouble.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9kfever
    [COLOR="Navy"]



    If ever there's a problem with a Masi frame, we have a limited lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. Never hesitate to contact me if there are problems or questions;"

    Unfortunately I was unable to find my 7 year old receipt and the shop the bike was purchased at had no record of the sale. The Masi rep would not cover the frame under warranty and refused to give me even a discount on another frame. I realize losing the receipt was my fault, but would have liked to see Masi step up and fix their own mistake.



    Masi is not responsible for your record keeping. I deal with the bike warranties at the LBS I work for. Those who have had warranty issues, had to provide proof of purchase as to being the original owner.And without proof of purchase, how is a manufacturer supposed to know if the bike is on its 1st owner or the 5th.

    As long as someone is able to provide ORIGINAL proof of purchase, warranty is valid. Once the fact that ZERO original proof of purchase is established, any bike company does not have to honor any warranty Written or implied.

    So don't bash Masi for your mistake.

    Thats like taking your Toyota, crashing it into a brick wall and wanting your local Toyota dealer to fix it for free.

    Sorry about your luck bud.
    You can't fix stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDaddio

    I kind of wish it were legal to staple people in the face.

  7. #7
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    Sorry for your bad luck but thanks for the heads up. Your 03 Vincere is aluminum, right? I will inspect my 07 Vincere (aluminum) and keep inspecting it in the future.

    Thanks - Jim
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  8. #8
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    I think he's bashing Masi because the frame was defective. It happens. But I think it'd be nice in this situation if they issued a replacement frame whether he's the 1st or 100th owner (since it was a problem inherent with the frame). Since most frames are problem-free I hardly see a flood of people wanting new frames. Just take claims from people who have serial numbers from the bad batch.

    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    Masi is not responsible for your record keeping. I deal with the bike warranties at the LBS I work for. Those who have had warranty issues, had to provide proof of purchase as to being the original owner.And without proof of purchase, how is a manufacturer supposed to know if the bike is on its 1st owner or the 5th.

    As long as someone is able to provide ORIGINAL proof of purchase, warranty is valid. Once the fact that ZERO original proof of purchase is established, any bike company does not have to honor any warranty Written or implied.

    So don't bash Masi for your mistake.

    Thats like taking your Toyota, crashing it into a brick wall and wanting your local Toyota dealer to fix it for free.

    Sorry about your luck bud.
    I saw a werewolf drinking a piña colada at Trader Vic's, his hair was perfect. (Warren Zevon)

  9. #9
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    Take it easy on the OP. He just wants his frame fixed.

    Can you go to the LBS and have them make a duplicate receipt to submit to Masi?
    Aluminum frames are so cheap to produce. Perhaps if you spoke very politely to Masi they might do something?
    "People ask me what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike - busting my ass - six hours a day. What are you on?"
    Lance Armstrong

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by skygodmatt
    Take it easy on the OP. He just wants his frame fixed.

    Can you go to the LBS and have them make a duplicate receipt to submit to Masi?
    Aluminum frames are so cheap to produce. Perhaps if you spoke very politely to Masi they might do something?
    That's fraud to start with, always amazed when I see suggestions like this (lack of ethics). And you don't think Masi might not be on the lookout for that type of submission (backdated receipt since they know the customer couldn't locate the original on that serial number)? Behavior like that drives up prices so we can all pay more so that skygodmatt can come on the internet and tell us about the new frame he got for free (rolleyes). The frame is old and aluminum doesn't last forever. Sure they made a product improvement (less stress by removing much of the crimping in the stays), but I'm a little surprised that simply out of goodwill that either Masi or the dealer wouldn't offer a frame at some type of discount.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    That's fraud to start with, always amazed when I see suggestions like this (lack of ethics). And you don't think Masi might not be on the lookout for that type of submission (backdated receipt since they know the customer couldn't locate the original on that serial number)? Behavior like that drives up prices so we can all pay more so that skygodmatt can come on the internet and tell us about the new frame he got for free (rolleyes). The frame is old and aluminum doesn't last forever. Sure they made a product improvement (less stress by removing much of the crimping in the stays), but I'm a little surprised that simply out of goodwill that either Masi or the dealer wouldn't offer a frame at some type of discount.
    It isn't fraud or unethical for the original dealer to provide a copy of the receipt to the original owner. It is only fraud if the dealer isn't acting in good faith and doesn't fully believe they sold the bike to the claimant in the first place.

    Stuff like this Masi failure sucks because a known problem should = a recall. But since it did not, Masi got out of replacing one of its mistakes on a technicality. But a technicality is still the letter of the law, so that's the way it goes.

    The world is littered with decent new and used aluminum frames for fairly cheap. Find a Cannondale or Scattante on sale for $100 or less.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    That's fraud to start with, always amazed when I see suggestions like this (lack of ethics). And you don't think Masi might not be on the lookout for that type of submission (backdated receipt since they know the customer couldn't locate the original on that serial number)?
    Fraud? That's no more fraud than me calling my bank and asking them to pull a copy of an old check for me so I can prove I paid for something.

    Warranties do not require that you hold on to the original piece of paper for all eternity. It requires you can prove you are the original owner. So if the bike shop keeps records why WOULDN'T you take advantage of that as a backup?

    If you did indeed buy the bike originally, that's not fraud.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rx-79g
    It isn't fraud or unethical for the original dealer to provide a copy of the receipt to the original owner. It is only fraud if the dealer isn't acting in good faith and doesn't fully believe they sold the bike to the claimant in the first place.

    Stuff like this Masi failure sucks because a known problem should = a recall. But since it did not, Masi got out of replacing one of its mistakes on a technicality. But a technicality is still the letter of the law, so that's the way it goes.

    The world is littered with decent new and used aluminum frames for fairly cheap. Find a Cannondale or Scattante on sale for $100 or less.
    The suggestion was that the dealer creates a new receipt, I think i read above the dealer didn't have the original record...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CougarTrek
    Fraud? That's no more fraud than me calling my bank and asking them to pull a copy of an old check for me so I can prove I paid for something.

    Warranties do not require that you hold on to the original piece of paper for all eternity. It requires you can prove you are the original owner. So if the bike shop keeps records why WOULDN'T you take advantage of that as a backup?

    If you did indeed buy the bike originally, that's not fraud.
    Reading comprehension- says above shop has no record of sale.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    The suggestion was that the dealer creates a new receipt, I think i read above the dealer didn't have the original record...
    If the dealer believes that the owner is the original owner AND wants to create a receipt to replace the original, that's up to the owner. It isn't automatically fraud just because there isn't a paper trail. One of the employees may remember the sale or years of service, and that may be enough to convince the owner to certify the sale. Masi certainly has no control over the method that its dealers use to provide receipts.

    The OP has a legitimate claim that he can't back up. There is no fraud, and the suggestion that someone making a legitimate claim on a warranty "drives prices up" isn't sensible. The only thing that drives prices up in this case was a rash of poorly built frames. The allegation of unethical behavior is insulting.

  16. #16
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    No copy of sale = no warranty = no sympathy from me.

    Consider learning two lessons. Keep better track of your finances. Don't expect anything to be free or easy.

  17. #17
    WA outdoor enthusiast
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    you guys are brutal - keep receipts for 8 years or it's your fault - or worse yet fraud.

    just another good reason to buy from a smaller builder who stands by their product.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaCruz
    you guys are brutal .
    No, we're responsible adults.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    Reading comprehension- says above shop has no record of sale.
    Quoting comprehension:

    You quoted skygodmatt who only suggested he ask the LBS to print a duplicate receipt from their records. He did NOT suggest the OP beg the shop to fabricate a record they didn't already have and make a fake receipt.

    Perhaps skygod missed in the original OP that the poster had already tried his suggestion and the shop had no record. Regardless, what he suggested and what you quoted (with nothing read into it) is not fraud.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CougarTrek
    Quoting comprehension:

    You quoted skygodmatt who only suggested he ask the LBS to print a duplicate receipt from their records. He did NOT suggest the OP beg the shop to fabricate a record they didn't already have and make a fake receipt.

    Perhaps skygod missed in the original OP that the poster had already tried his suggestion and the shop had no record. Regardless, what he suggested and what you quoted (with nothing read into it) is not fraud.
    All so sensitive....I think skygodmatt's suggestion was pretty clear. He did not say "print" a duplicate receipt. He said "make" a duplicate receipt (as in create). Totally different concepts.

    It seems to me, without the original receipt, this boils down to the strength of the relationships between the OP and the LBS of purchase, and between the LBS and Masi. Otherwise, it's strictly business. Maybe the warranty guy at Masi would really like to warranty the frame, but company policy prevents him from doing so without the piece of paper. Maybe the relationship between the OP and the LBS is long and strong enough for the LBS to say "yeah, we know he bought the bike here". And maybe the relationship between the LBS and the Masi warrany guy is strong enough to pass a duplicate receipt through, or convince Masi in some other satisfactory fashion the the OP is the original owner, and the claim is legit. In any case the LBS has to go to bat for the OP, or it ain't going to happen. Only they know.
    It ain't rocket surgery. Buy everything on sale, pedal when you have too, coast when you can, and get home in one piece. Keep going forward - there is no reverse.

    OGWB

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimme Shoulder
    All so sensitive....I think skygodmatt's suggestion was pretty clear. He did not say "print" a duplicate receipt. He said "make" a duplicate receipt (as in create). Totally different concepts.

    It seems to me, without the original receipt, this boils down to the strength of the relationships between the OP and the LBS of purchase, and between the LBS and Masi. Otherwise, it's strictly business. Maybe the warranty guy at Masi would really like to warranty the frame, but company policy prevents him from doing so without the piece of paper. Maybe the relationship between the OP and the LBS is long and strong enough for the LBS to say "yeah, we know he bought the bike here". And maybe the relationship between the LBS and the Masi warrany guy is strong enough to pass a duplicate receipt through, or convince Masi in some other satisfactory fashion the the OP is the original owner, and the claim is legit. In any case the LBS has to go to bat for the OP, or it ain't going to happen. Only they know.
    Clearly Gimme Shoulder read it the same way I did and the suggestion was clearly one to defraud...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    Clearly Gimme Shoulder read it the same way I did and the suggestion was clearly one to defraud...
    Really, did you actually read the second paragraph?

    Maybe the relationship between the OP and the LBS is long and strong enough for the LBS to say "yeah, we know he bought the bike here".

    It appears the Gimme appreciates that the LBS can create documentation to replace originals, and that does not constitute fraud.

  23. #23
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    If, by virtue of the relationship between the OP and the LBS, the LBS can confirm that the OP did in fact purchase the bike new at their shop seven years ago, and then expresses that fact in the form of a newly created receipt - does that constitute fraud technically? Honestly, I don't know. Obviously, if the LBS can NOT confirm the purchase (through memory, records of service, etc) but still produces a new receipt - I would think that is fraud.

    A good relationship between the LBS and Masi, could facilitate the transaction. Maybe Masi trusts the LBS enough to allow a newly created receipt to suffice. Maybe the warranty person just needs this or some other type of paperwork (like a letter) to get him past company policy and do the warranty replacement. Or maybe it will get them half way there, and Masi can at least offer a deal at cost or something. I don't know - just speculating.

    The point is that without the original paperwork, the positive resolution of this claim is going to be purely a function of the strength of the two relationships. Otherwise it's strictly business, and there won't be a warranty resolution.
    Last edited by Gimme Shoulder; 02-26-2011 at 07:31 PM.
    It ain't rocket surgery. Buy everything on sale, pedal when you have too, coast when you can, and get home in one piece. Keep going forward - there is no reverse.

    OGWB

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rx-79g
    Really, did you actually read the second paragraph?

    Maybe the relationship between the OP and the LBS is long and strong enough for the LBS to say "yeah, we know he bought the bike here".

    It appears the Gimme appreciates that the LBS can create documentation to replace originals, and that does not constitute fraud.
    Here is the quote "and the shop the bike was purchased at had no record of the sale. The Masi rep would not cover the frame under warranty and refused to give me even a discount on another frame".

    So do you suppose if the shop did recollect he had bought the bike there but couldn't produce the record that they would go to bat with Masi to help out a customer? The fact the guy is here complaining rather than getting resolution at the shop suggests the shop does not recollect his purchase. If they did recollect the purchase and chose to recreate the receipt that would not constitute fraud. If they did not recollect the purchase but created a receipt-that is fraud. Do you get it now? The suggestion that would amount to fraud was to create a receipt since Masi wanted a receipt, despite the supposition that the shop does not recollect his purchase. I never suggested that if the shop did recollect the sale, and chose to re-create the receipt would constitute fraud.

    Are you representative of what the military produces? People unable to comprehend an implied idea unless it is fully explained to them? Is this why we don't have Osama bin laden after 8 years? Because we have people of your caliber (clueless) on the job? I've now wasted enough of my time on this thread.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    Here is the quote "and the shop the bike was purchased at had no record of the sale. The Masi rep would not cover the frame under warranty and refused to give me even a discount on another frame".

    So do you suppose if the shop did recollect he had bought the bike there but couldn't produce the record that they would go to bat with Masi to help out a customer? The fact the guy is here complaining rather than getting resolution at the shop suggests the shop does not recollect his purchase. If they did recollect the purchase and chose to recreate the receipt that would not constitute fraud. If they did not recollect the purchase but created a receipt-that is fraud. Do you get it now? The suggestion that would amount to fraud was to create a receipt since Masi wanted a receipt, despite the supposition that the shop does not recollect his purchase. I never suggested that if the shop did recollect the sale, and chose to re-create the receipt would constitute fraud.

    Are you representative of what the military produces? People unable to comprehend an implied idea unless it is fully explained to them? Is this why we don't have Osama bin laden after 8 years? Because we have people of your caliber (clueless) on the job? I've now wasted enough of my time on this thread.
    I don't "suppose" anything. I read that there is no record of the original sale. I read the suggestion that the shop might wish to issue a new receipt.

    I assumed that no shop would do that if it wasn't for a good, ethical reason. I also assumed that the reason might be something other than a paper or electronic record.

    You assumed that any scenerio where the shop created a replacement receipt was fraudlant. And you seem to be the only one, despite your initial misreading of Gimme's post.


    Would someone of average or lower intelligence often feel confused by the reasoning of more intelligent people? I suppose I could get drunk in an attempt to answer that question.
    Last edited by rx-79g; 02-26-2011 at 07:55 PM.

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