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  1. #1
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    New Trends: Mini-Velo, Retro City, Monster Cross, Monster Tires?

    As SS/FG and 29er become much more mainstream, there are several other trends that seem to be coming along. I would love to hear comments on these

    Mini-Velo - very popular in Asia and growing in Europe. These bikes sit like a road bike; but have 20" wheels. Geo is very interesting and they are not folders.
    See the general style here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-gi9_OMKs4

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? bike polo? a spare fun bike?
    At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?



    Retro City Bikes - these seem to be growing but still not readily available. Public anf Linus have interesting versions; they ride very comfy and upright; seem functional and nice for short casual rides; some are very attractive [I think] See the general style here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERBfFx1VW1Q

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? family rides? a spare fun bike? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?


    Monster Cross - a mix of 29er and CX bike - drop bars with super wide tires. I am unsure if this is a trend; but it might be. See a good example gere -> http://www.voodoocycles.net/nakisi.htm

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? off-road racer? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?


    Monster Tire Bikes - I have seen no real trend here; but they are interesting. The Surly Pugsley is an axample -> http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pugsley_complete/ BUT I have seen an riden a street bike and a beach cruiser with super big high air volume tires [like 4.0 or 4.5]. Super comfy ride; like floating on air, and lots of work.

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? beach or dirt rides? Just for the heck of it? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?


    Noone really knows where the industry is headed in terms of new designs and comsumers demands; but it is fun to think & talk about.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
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    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  2. #2
    Flash! ah–ahhh!
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    Is this another one of those threads where you've already spec'd the bikes and are basically just using the thread for free advertising?
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to die like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep... not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    SystemShock: About Faux News/the Right-Wing Bubble™ – the first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

    Kitty:
    ROMNEY LANDSLIDE! Man its going to be fun in PO after Election Day


    Platypius:
    I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock
    Is this another one of those threads where you've already spec'd the bikes and are basically just using the thread for free advertising?
    .

    Not Really
    We have spec'd mini-velo; tested but have not decided to order
    We have spec'd tested and ordered hundreds of Retro City bikes
    We have no specs or anything pending on Monster Cross or Monster Tire bikes

    In summary, I am shocked by the difference in response and results of the exact same post here vs bikeforums -- truly shocked
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  4. #4
    Flash! ah–ahhh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    In summary, I am shocked by the difference in response and results of the exact same post here vs bikeforums -- truly shocked
    What can I say? We're just smarter than they are..
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to die like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep... not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    SystemShock: About Faux News/the Right-Wing Bubble™ – the first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

    Kitty:
    ROMNEY LANDSLIDE! Man its going to be fun in PO after Election Day


    Platypius:
    I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Seamus: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock
    What can I say? We're just smarter than they are..
    .

    Insights about cycling posted by others are not smart?


    Maybe I have a different veiw of other cyclists than you do

    I think publicly posted opinions by interested riders about a bike such as a mini-velo can be important. Several cyclists have mini-velo they have built or imported; other countries have lots of these bikes in use; and still several makers [including us] are waiting on the side-lines to see if there is any demand in the USA before commenting to importing them here {I talk to product managers at other bike companies, and they are all waiting to see what others will do}

    If these forums are not a good place to exchange ideas on bikes; what are they?
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Insights about cycling posted by others are not smart?

    ...If these forums are not a good place to exchange ideas on bikes; what are they?
    C'mon Mike, don't play the wounded innocent here. It's really about self-promotion. We both know that.

    And far as comparing RBR to Bikeforums goes... you don't really want me to look around and bring to your attention some of the ppl on other bike forums who don't like you/BD's way of self-promoting, now do ya?

    Far as this thread goes... have at it. It's now on the Motobecane forum where it belongs [edit- well, I guess Mike read the riot act to someone, as it's back on Bikes/Frames now] , so I don't have any problem with it. I just won't be participating in it the way you'd have me.

    Carry on.
    .
    Last edited by SystemShock; 12-04-2010 at 10:39 AM.
    Monkhouse: I want to die like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep... not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    SystemShock: About Faux News/the Right-Wing Bubble™ – the first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

    Kitty:
    ROMNEY LANDSLIDE! Man its going to be fun in PO after Election Day


    Platypius:
    I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Seamus: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock
    C'mon Mike, don't play the wounded innocent here. It's really about self-promotion. We both know that.

    And far as comparing RBR to Bikeforums goes... you don't really want me to look around and bring to your attention some of the ppl on other bike forums who don't like you/BD's way of self-promoting, now do ya?

    Far as this thread goes... have at it. It's now on the Motobecane forum where it belongs, so I don't have any problem with it. I just won't be participating in it the way you'd have me.

    Carry on.
    .

    You did not read my post or you are not understanding its point at all

    If you read the responses on bikeforums and mtbr; you may get it

    The idea of me self-promoting on RBR is silly
    readers here already know who we are

    Plus promoting bikes I have not ordered; like mini-velo, monster cross, or monster tire bikes is even stranger. I still have no idea if I will do any of those three [retro city we are doing; but will mainly sell in our shops and to other dealers]

    I am getting plenty of input from the other forums; so I am fine with that
    But that should not give you a reason to attack cyclists on BF or MTBR as 'not smart'
    Last edited by bikesdirect; 12-04-2010 at 05:51 AM.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  8. #8
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    Mini-Velo: Personally, I think they're ridiculous, and aren't something I would order for my store.

    Retro City Bikes:
    Useful, and appeal to a lot of people. I've already put several on my pre-season order.

    Monster-Cross:
    Undecided. I built up a sorta monster-cross bike for the store, but put 700x40 hybrid tires on it for use as a "country bike". It got a lot of interest, but no buyers (I sold it on eBay).

    Monster Tire Bike: Yes. There needs to be an alternative to the Pug. They (allegedly) make good snow bikes, so make yours with clearance and mounts for fenders (that you will also need to provide, I'm guessing).
    Other countries need to stop hatin' or we'll unfriend them. - Christine

    Apparently I left my reading comprehension glasses in my ass. - DrRoebuck

    Still, it felt great and I felt like I was sitting on some kind of vibrator -Touch0Gray

  9. #9
    Flash! ah–ahhh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    You did not read my post or you are not understanding its point at all
    Oh, I got it, all right.

    The idea of me self-promoting on RBR is silly
    readers here already know who we are
    Kind of a red herring; you want to advertise any new bikes (again, likely already spec'd) that you might wish to bring out in these categories.

    I think many posters here are already aware of this; why you'd want to pretend otherwise is beyond me. Why not acknowledge the commercial side of any 'discussions' you have here? I think ppl would welcome the up-frontness.

    I am getting plenty of input from the other forums; so I am fine with that
    But that should not give you a reason to attack cyclists on BF or MTBR as 'not smart'
    And I think you kind of attacked RBR when you whined about how you didn't like the lack of response you were getting here.

    If you dislike RBR so much, you can always stop posting/self-promoting here. Simple as that.

    Good luck with your new models.
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to die like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep... not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    SystemShock: About Faux News/the Right-Wing Bubble™ – the first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

    Kitty:
    ROMNEY LANDSLIDE! Man its going to be fun in PO after Election Day


    Platypius:
    I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Seamus: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  10. #10
    duh...
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    First they shill you, then they bait you, then they spam you, then you kill them.
    .


    Quote Originally Posted by mikagsd
    Fat tire Fred....you are the bike god of the universe and unless someone agrees with your reasoning they are just plain stupid

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect

    Monster Cross - a mix of 29er and CX bike - drop bars with super wide tires. I am unsure if this is a trend; but it might be. See a good example gere -> http://www.voodoocycles.net/nakisi.htm

    Would you be interested in this type of bike? as a commuter? off-road racer? At what price would you think bikes like this should be at?
    I don't know if I'd call monstercross a "trend" or not, but there is a lot of interest in these bikes, and it would be a worthwhile market to serve. Go to the 29er forum of MTBR (particularly, the thread "I beg you, more MONSTERCROSS"). Cyclocross Magazine recently did an article on monstercross as well.

    I think there are enough monstercross bikes on the market with super-upright touring geometry and clearance for ridiculously wide tires (Voodo Nakisi, Salsa Fargo and Vaya, etc.). What is missing from the market is an affordable CX race worthy monstercross bike. i.e. shoulderable conventional semi-compact CX geometry, all cables on top of the top tube, but clearance for up to a 1.9" 29er tire. (IMHO 2.3" tires on a monstercross bike are too big, if you need that big of a tire, you might as well be on a 29er mountain bike)

    To my knowledge, there are only two bikes that fit into the "raceable monstercross" category, the Rock Lobster Cyclocross Tig Team S.L. and the Soulcraft Dirtbomb Both are pricey custom bikes. Both of these bikes have clearance for up to a 45c tire.

    The market could definitely use a "raceable monstercross" bike in aluminum (and/or Ti). I would suggest giving it a little more clearance than the Tig Team Sl and Dirtbomb for up to a 1.9" 29er tire. The only CX worthy 45c tire that exists is the Panaracer Fire Cross, but if you can clear a 1.9" 29er tire, that opens up a lot more tire choices. My wish list would also include disc tabs and same pricepoints as the Fantom Cross bikes.

  12. #12
    old school drop out
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    Monster Tire Bikes: Salsa recently introduced their version of a Pugsley. With two moderately-priced (given the uniqueness of the parts) options available in market that is very limited, I don't see a lot of room for growth. I think more options is a great idea, but sales volume will be low (especially if the rumors of "climate change" are true). ;)

    Monster Cross: I really don't like the name, but I do like the concept. 'Cross racing has really been taking off in the US. Owning a bike that can only be used a handful of times per year is a big commitment and outlay of funds. Having a frame that can be raced, yet accepts larger tires that allow the bike to be used for more varied rides is a great idea to me. I think that there's a lot of room for growth.

    Retro City Bikes: I don't know if their retro or city bikes, but offering nice but reasonably priced road bike frames that accept wider tires and fenders makes sense. I think more and more riders are seeing the limitations of frames that limit riders to a 28mm tire (if they're lucky) and no fenders. Race bikes don't make good everyday bikes - they're not good in the rain, they're not good in the snow, they're not good fro carrying anything besides a rider and a water bottle. As more Americans commute to work, the need for sporty but practical bikes will grow.

    Mini-Velo: IMO, until public transportation in the US becomes a priority, there's little need for bikes that fit this category. There's likely some market in NYC or the few cities that have good public transport, but the market is limited (much like snow bikes). Bike Friday has been in this market for a long time, and I don't see it growing very rapidly.

  13. #13
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    Mini Velo - What's the point? All the draw backs of a folder with none of the benefits?

    Retro City Bikes - Would rather get a cheap hybrid than pay for contrived style.

    Monster Cross - I don't know much about cross riding but I'm guessing the point at which I think I need tires that big is about the same point at which I would use a mountain bike not a cross bike.

    Monster Tire bikes - I just can't picture a scenario where I'd ride something like that. Maybe if I were a clab digger I could use one for the last 30 yards of my commute. Maybe they are good in snow?

  14. #14
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    You guys should put out a bike with the reissued Sturmey Archer kickback 2-speed hub. And maybe a three speed version as well. Make 'em look like hipster flat bar fixies.

  15. #15
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    The last BD thread I read turned into one of the more interesting discussions about bikes I've read on this board. Nothing wrong with that.

    A cyclocross bike with clearance for bigger tires is great. Probably lots of interest there.

    The city bike would need to be a compromise of weight, price, strength, flexibility (fenders, racks, moderate-wide tires). But if you got it right for a reasonable price I think they'd sell great. I think keeping the price pretty low would be key since there are alternatives here as well as in the used bike market. However, the demand for those used bikes is quite high.

  16. #16
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    All attempts at advertising put aside, the one thing that will make 'Monster cross' take off is the new UCI rule regarding disc brakes in cyclo cross. As Shimano begin to make Hydraulic compatible STI units, so this particular section of the market will begin to expand.

    This will also influence touring bikes and any drop bar bikes where discs can be used.

    Tis what I'm waiting for, I've got a Klein attitude waiting to be drop barred....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    You guys should put out a bike with the reissued Sturmey Archer kickback 2-speed hub. And maybe a three speed version as well. Make 'em look like hipster flat bar fixies.
    Even better.... how about a Pugsley-like cruiser with a 2-speed kickback?

    Other countries need to stop hatin' or we'll unfriend them. - Christine

    Apparently I left my reading comprehension glasses in my ass. - DrRoebuck

    Still, it felt great and I felt like I was sitting on some kind of vibrator -Touch0Gray

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlatyPius
    Even better.... how about a Pugsley-like cruiser with a 2-speed kickback?

    Wow
    I never knew J&B had that monster tire bike!
    That is really neat

    This monster tire deal may become a real category, although they are a lot of work to ride

    Plus the kickback hub is retro cool, I had one in 1959
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  19. #19
    wim
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    This monster tire deal may become a real category, although they are a lot of work to ride
    Mike, it depends. In deep sand or snow, they are much less work to ride than a skinny-tired bike would be because they float over rather than plow through the stuff. And on asphalt, they roll a lot easier than their looks would make you think. But it's true: when you first see one, you think "how am I ever going to move that thing down the road?"

  20. #20
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    commuters (retro city)

    internal hubs, racks, stuff for regular folks, but stylish

    randos, same as above but for more of the bike geek, rando will be the new fixed

    Monster Cross, guys reliving the drop bar MTB era. Tiny niche, why would one want one when a cross bike does everything but rock gardens better? If I had an 80s era Charlie Cunningham I'd have drop bars, but again, this is a tiny market

    people say "Why don't you get a rigid 29er?" I say "I have 2, they are called cross bikes"
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  21. #21
    25.806975801127
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    internal hubs, racks, stuff for regular folks, but stylish

    randos, same as above but for more of the bike geek, rando will be the new fixed

    Monster Cross, guys reliving the drop bar MTB era. Tiny niche, why would one want one when a cross bike does everything but rock gardens better? If I had an 80s era Charlie Cunningham I'd have drop bars, but again, this is a tiny market

    people say "Why don't you get a rigid 29er?" I say "I have 2, they are called cross bikes"
    I really, really hope the part that I bolded is true. I love Rando bikes, and have an assortment of VO and other such parts in my shop. Rando bikes are the shite.

    I'm also betting on the Raleigh Roadster bikes to be a strong performer this (2011) year.
    Other countries need to stop hatin' or we'll unfriend them. - Christine

    Apparently I left my reading comprehension glasses in my ass. - DrRoebuck

    Still, it felt great and I felt like I was sitting on some kind of vibrator -Touch0Gray

  22. #22
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    IMO, the only good bike (out of the aforementioned list) is a fat-tire bike. It seems like the mini-velo is a solution looking for a problem; the retro-city would be "targeted" for those customers at some discount store with a big, red, circular logo; and the monstercross is too small of a niche market to be plausible, in that, anybody who actually knows what monstercross is probably has the know-how to build one themselves.

  23. #23
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    I was hoping for women in high heels in the mini velo

  24. #24
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    I just posted this in wheels forum. But I'd love to see wide 23mm wide tubeless, wheels. Perhaps a Campy Eurus with a 23mm wide rim. Or a reynolds assault, 23mm wide clincher rim, tubeless.

  25. #25
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    Thanks for all the comments. VERY HELPFUIL! Every comment I learned something from and I hope that benefits our customers and cycling in general. {I even learn from those that slam me or our concept}

    Mini Velo: I learned that some wanted these; some did not want them and that many were generally confused by the entire category. And importantly I found that unlike the standard in Asia & Europe, customers here would like 406 BMX type rims with room for more rubber.

    I am still unsure if these bikes will sell well. When I made the post I really had not decided to order any. Now I have decided’ what the heck?’; and ordered the Mercier Nano as a test. I will do a ‘group buy’ for forum members on these in the spring sometime at a special price. There may be many who decide this type of bike is worth a try if they are under $300.

    I sold our four samples to forum members who posted that they would like one. Those have shipped and I hope those forum members will post on RBR, MTBR, and Bikeforums their honest opinion on these bikes. [my opinion is not too meaningfully as I love to ride about any bike and see the positive aspects of all].

    I know I will not be the only one watching this experiment as there are several other brands/importers with this type bike ready to go and are just waiting to see if anyone thinks they will sell.

    Retro City Bike: I had already decided to try this out [2 models - one SS and one 3-spd]. I knew this would work in my shops. But after reading the comments I think this may be an expanding area and I will spec more models. The customers and ideas on this remind me of SS/FG in that some people would think to get old bikes and modify; but that most will get new bikes if they can find the correct style at a good price.

    These bikes are great for function; and new ones need to have that style / look that customers like. We cannot just take a hybrid and slap on fenders and call it a city bike. There are a couple of brands doing a good job right now. Also I agree with many comments that to reach most buyers the price needs to be low. I expect if price is good enough that even hardcore road or mountain riders would get one as a ‘sport / commute’ extra bike.

    Monster Cross: I had no idea about the chance of us doing this type bike. In fact, I still find the ‘ideas’ on what this type bike should be as unfocused [to say the least]. And I really had no intention of doing one of these but wanted to learn what others thought.

    After reading all the comments; I sent in specs for a 4130 ss/multi-speed version and I am waiting for drawings and quotes; then samples etc. I thought why not try a few at higher level.

    Then after reading the comments and looking around net about these bikes, I decided what the heck, I should also try an Aluminum one at lower price. Working on frame design now; probably will do with mountain double and with cyclo-cross double [so now that is 3 models!]

    Anyway, I can see how can see how a bike like this can be a super versatile bike for all types of uses. Change your tires and get new use like a CX bike; but even more so with more tire choices. {and the 4130 model will come with SS & multiple setups; and maybe two sets of tires}

    Once this process of development is over; I may do a group buy if there is interest from forum members on one of the Monster Cross bikes.

    Monster Tire Bikes: OMG, I feel like a drunk with a 20 page drink menu at the Tiki bar. What kind of bikes can I just skip? I had no clue this type bike would really be interesting. I am still unsure; but I am starting to see how in some special situations that some cyclists would need or want a bike like this. Of course, it is very different for those by beach than those who have snow.

    Rims, Tires, Tubes, Forks are all special challenges on these. Plus a real commitment as I will not do a bike like this without stocking wheels, tires, tubes and forks for customer backup. Let’s face it, not easy to get replacement parts on these special items. Designing a frame is no big deal and easy. But other items on this type bike are really difficult.

    I have no idea if I will ever do a monster tire bike; but if I do it has to be priced at a very reasonable price. I do not see this type bike as anyone’s only bike. Of course, I am dedicated to the idea that if you are spending $5000 on bikes you are better off with 5 really nice bikes than with one $5000 prestige bike that you are afraid to ride or transport or leave parked in the garage. And I agree that #bikes.you.need = #bikes.you.have + 1.


    I love the forums! I used to get all types of ideas from standing on the floor in my shops and talking to customers. Now it is much easier and better [forums cover a wide area as shop customers are limited to a small area]. With so many types of cyclists and so many possible designs out there it is a never ending moving target when buying or designing bikes; but exciting and fun. Thanks again for your posts.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

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