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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Yes, there is a 1,300 mile difference.
    sounds like ignorance but whatever it's the internet

  2. #27
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    Hallo, I just got a fine white lines and a crack in the frame of my new F10 bike after less then 4 weeks... I just notice it while cleaning my bike after a standard road ride, no accident or fall. it is down on the back of seat tube (behind the wheel) in the middle between the top and down tubes.
    The response I got so far from Pinarello that its not under warranty!!! (its my first Pinarello so Im not femiliar with their service)
    Does yours cracks were around the same location ? does it happen with no special event ?

  3. #28
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    When you buy the bike you have to quickly register it with them on their website to have the proper warranty.

    Show us pictures of the white lines so we can help.
    use a torque wrench

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    When you buy the bike you have to quickly register it with them on their website to have the proper warranty.

    Show us pictures of the white lines so we can help.
    what if you don't have internet? no proper warranty then? and if so, do pinarello sellers post a sign warning potential buyers of this? Very odd policy IMO

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    When you buy the bike you have to quickly register it with them on their website to have the proper warranty.

    Show us pictures of the white lines so we can help.
    I did register the bike, but they claim it's not under their warranty. They have some kind of crash replacement program to buy a new one discounted...
    attached two pictures of the white line on the side and the crack behind the wheel.
    As mentioned it is after about 4 weeks of riding with no special event...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pinarello Dogma F8 frame cracks-img_7042.jpg   Pinarello Dogma F8 frame cracks-img_7037.jpg  

  6. #31
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    I maybe see what they're saying. Maybe saying it's been caused by some sort of accident, maybe without you knowing.

    Maybe the bike was on top of a car and the seat hit something when you were going under, something like that.

    To me the damage looks very severe and I would not ride that bike. It needs to be properly repaired before being ridden safely again.

    It's possible that it's just the outer layers that have been damaged but I'd get it checked out by a professional personally.
    use a torque wrench

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    I maybe see what they're saying. Maybe saying it's been caused by some sort of accident, maybe without you knowing.

    Maybe the bike was on top of a car and the seat hit something when you were going under, something like that.

    To me the damage looks very severe and I would not ride that bike. It needs to be properly repaired before being ridden safely again.

    It's possible that it's just the outer layers that have been damaged but I'd get it checked out by a professional personally.
    I understand what you are saying but I take the bike only safely in the car and the location of the crack is very weird, behind the wheel, while all the rest around is clean from any damage...I don't expected that in this level of frame something like a stone from the road, as one suggested, will cause such a damage. Only if there is some kind of problem with the frame. I ride bikes many years and never saw something like that. It's very frustrating and I was expected to different level of service and responsibility from company as Pinarello.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinarelloF10 View Post
    I understand what you are saying but I take the bike only safely in the car and the location of the crack is very weird, behind the wheel, while all the rest around is clean from any damage...I don't expected that in this level of frame something like a stone from the road, as one suggested, will cause such a damage. Only if there is some kind of problem with the frame. I ride bikes many years and never saw something like that. It's very frustrating and I was expected to different level of service and responsibility from company as Pinarello.
    i'm sorry man but your frame is damaged. You should be steaming thru your ears from Pina's answer. How you managed to stay civil in your posts thus far is amazing temper control. You're not the first one to have a big manufacturer brush off a damaged frame as user's accident. Damn read so many horror warranty stories from people. I'm guessing your saga with Pina will only gets worse from here on out. Bet you didn't read the fine print of the warranty huh? It's the manufacturer's discretion if a damage is their fault or user's fault. Go figure.

  9. #34
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    This is the reason why I have never bought a carbon Pinarello. Seems like every post I've seen where someone has a problem with one of their carbon frames, their attitude seems to be "it's not us, it's you". Which leads to the question of: why offer a warranty if you are not going to honor it? Sorry about your bike. That really sucks.

  10. #35
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    Hi, new user on the forum. I hate to have this as a first post but i was hoping to see if anyone had more information on 2015 F8 frame cracks. I recently found a crack on the bottom of the drive side chain stay. The bike was sent in to the Pinarello US distributor for examination. They found an additional crack on the seat stay and have denied the warranty claim saying the bike has been involved in an impact. I haven't been involved in any kind of impact and am obviously disappointed they're not covering the frame. I don't know exactly how they make this determination but you'd think anything severe enough to damage the frame would be accompanied by crushing of the resin or a rashed frame and the impact wouldn't have gone unnoticed. I bought the frame new in 2017 and I would have thought I'd get a little more use out of a high end frame like this. Anyway, I was hoping to see if anyone else has had a similar issue and how Pinarello handled the warranty claim.

    Thx!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by imflyboy View Post
    Hi, new user on the forum. I hate to have this as a first post but i was hoping to see if anyone had more information on 2015 F8 frame cracks. I recently found a crack on the bottom of the drive side chain stay. The bike was sent in to the Pinarello US distributor for examination. They found an additional crack on the seat stay and have denied the warranty claim saying the bike has been involved in an impact. I haven't been involved in any kind of impact and am obviously disappointed they're not covering the frame. I don't know exactly how they make this determination but you'd think anything severe enough to damage the frame would be accompanied by crushing of the resin or a rashed frame and the impact wouldn't have gone unnoticed. I bought the frame new in 2017 and I would have thought I'd get a little more use out of a high end frame like this. Anyway, I was hoping to see if anyone else has had a similar issue and how Pinarello handled the warranty claim.

    Thx!
    sigh... another sad story
    I'm sorry but I'd be very surprised if Pina will warrant your frame based as they've have already made up their mind that it's user's crash. I'll bet those Pina guys know that a crack at the chainstay could compromise the structure of the bike leading to the ensuing crack of the seatstay too; afterall, the rear is a triangle and a break in one leg is well conceivably lead to another leg.

    But here's some relatively good news. My buddy has an F8 and he got into a crash (yes, this is a legit crash) and fractured majorly the chainstay, seatstay, and part of the seattube. He sent his bike in to a local repairer (https://www.element6.us/) and they were able to repaired all cracks, repainted the repair spots (it was solid white, color may cost more), everything came out to be $600. No one could even tell the frame has been repaired, not even closely examining it with your eyes and fingers. So yes while it sucks that Pina is doing their best to skirt their warranty, your frame is easily repairable.

  12. #37
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    Of course no one ever crashes their bikes, nor does anyone ever drop anything on the bike or do anything else that might damage it. Everyone (generally) is deny, deny, deny. That said, a few will admit to something happening that isn't covered by a warranty. We only ever get one side of the story here, that the warranty has been denied. Some manufacturers will deny claims because they see tons of claims and know how damage occurs and what it looks like. Some will deny legit warranty claims.
    Without seeing your frame and the damage there is no way anyone here can offer any real advice. Damage from the outside (non-warranty) and damage that is the result of a defect of some kind generally look pretty different. Post some photos and some of us that are in the industry can have a look.
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  13. #38
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    Thanks for the replies. I certainly wouldn't expect any company to pay for my stupidity. I raced motorcycles for awhile and never expected Kawasaki to pay for crash damage. In fact I spent a large sum putting my bike and my body back together after crashes. The crack on the seat stay had been there for some time. It never occurred to me that it was a crack. I've had one carbon part on a motorcycle fail and the defect in the carbon wasn't visible until it cracked through the resin. It seems reasonable to me that the carbon had a defect the frame would have to carry loads in ways that it wasn't designed for. The bike has been well maintained and I'd have thought I'd have been aware of an impact severe enough to crack the carbon. Anyway, I appreciate the replies, I'm just hoping to see if I'm an outlier here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pinarello Dogma F8 frame cracks-img_1163.jpg   Pinarello Dogma F8 frame cracks-img_1164.jpg  

  14. #39
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    looking at the bottom brack cracks, I believe it could be a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it is extreme difficult to almost impossible to prove if a carbon part has failed to do to a crash or manufacturing defect once that carbon part has been broken up pretty bad (like your bike). If you somehow had the fore-vision that your bike was going to fail due to manufacturing defect, you could have it under an ultrasound scan and the scan would pick up voids (holes) within the carbon layers or delamination from the inside out (due to wrinkling of the carbon layers). But of course this sort preemptive scan is almost impossible for an end user to execute, and bike warranty department knows this.

    If it were me, I'd demand their warranty department explain to me why they would attribute the failure to a crash. Did they tell you why they think like that? Ask the why. If they cannot explain to you, or if they explain it in an absolute way like "our frames cannot never fail like that", then they're kicking the bucket. Take them to small claim court, and they will lose. As long as there is a possibility in manufacturing defect, there is a possibility of failure. Making a carbon fiber frame is a very process-dependent construction that relies exclusively on human laying down the layers and then the ballasts. I don't even think it's possible for 1 person to make 2 carbon frames in exactly the same way due to the variation inherent in the process. Honeslty, I wish my frame would fail ala JRA style because I'm itching to take anyone to court to have them prove it to me. At the very minimum, at least in court I will at least get one of their experts to explain to me in a technical manners and not their warranty waterboy just telling me my frame fail because I crashed it (when there are no visible crash damage).

    This expert explains "JRA" (just riding along) failures



    Note: I assume that you're here in good faith and not trolling us for reasons/arguments to pull a dodgy on the warranty when you have crashed and not tell us about it.

  15. #40
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    Everyone who trolls the China-direct thread – saying that all those frames are garbage and asking why anyone would ever buy a frame that wasn't warrantied by a big-name manufacturer – should be forced to read through threads like this first.

    It's not surprising that even the top-brand frames sometimes crack – it's the nature of the material. But if they are going to sell bikes for those prices, they ought to back up their warranty and take care of their customers.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    looking at the bottom brack cracks, I believe it could be a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it is extreme difficult to almost impossible to prove if a carbon part has failed to do to a crash or manufacturing defect once that carbon part has been broken up pretty bad (like your bike). If you somehow had the fore-vision that your bike was going to fail due to manufacturing defect, you could have it under an ultrasound scan and the scan would pick up voids (holes) within the carbon layers or delamination from the inside out (due to wrinkling of the carbon layers). But of course this sort preemptive scan is almost impossible for an end user to execute, and bike warranty department knows this.

    If it were me, I'd demand their warranty department explain to me why they would attribute the failure to a crash. Did they tell you why they think like that? Ask the why. If they cannot explain to you, or if they explain it in an absolute way like "our frames cannot never fail like that", then they're kicking the bucket. Take them to small claim court, and they will lose. As long as there is a possibility in manufacturing defect, there is a possibility of failure. Making a carbon fiber frame is a very process-dependent construction that relies exclusively on human laying down the layers and then the ballasts. I don't even think it's possible for 1 person to make 2 carbon frames in exactly the same way due to the variation inherent in the process. Honeslty, I wish my frame would fail ala JRA style because I'm itching to take anyone to court to have them prove it to me. At the very minimum, at least in court I will at least get one of their experts to explain to me in a technical manners and not their warranty waterboy just telling me my frame fail because I crashed it (when there are no visible crash damage).

    This expert explains "JRA" (just riding along) failures



    Note: I assume that you're here in good faith and not trolling us for reasons/arguments to pull a dodgy on the warranty when you have crashed and not tell us about it.
    Thx for the reply. No bad faith here. This is the 1st issue I've had on a bicycle and I didn't know if I'm out in left field. I'm going to follow up on the warranty and in the meantime look at getting it repaired. There's a guy nearby who has been recommended. I'll try and post something once it's all settled.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    looking at the bottom brack cracks, I believe it could be a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it is extreme difficult to almost impossible to prove if a carbon part has failed to do to a crash or manufacturing defect once that carbon part has been broken up pretty bad (like your bike). If you somehow had the fore-vision that your bike was going to fail due to manufacturing defect, you could have it under an ultrasound scan and the scan would pick up voids (holes) within the carbon layers or delamination from the inside out (due to wrinkling of the carbon layers). But of course this sort preemptive scan is almost impossible for an end user to execute, and bike warranty department knows this.

    If it were me, I'd demand their warranty department explain to me why they would attribute the failure to a crash. Did they tell you why they think like that? Ask the why. If they cannot explain to you, or if they explain it in an absolute way like "our frames cannot never fail like that", then they're kicking the bucket. Take them to small claim court, and they will lose. As long as there is a possibility in manufacturing defect, there is a possibility of failure. Making a carbon fiber frame is a very process-dependent construction that relies exclusively on human laying down the layers and then the ballasts. I don't even think it's possible for 1 person to make 2 carbon frames in exactly the same way due to the variation inherent in the process. Honeslty, I wish my frame would fail ala JRA style because I'm itching to take anyone to court to have them prove it to me. At the very minimum, at least in court I will at least get one of their experts to explain to me in a technical manners and not their warranty waterboy just telling me my frame fail because I crashed it (when there are no visible crash damage).

    This expert explains "JRA" (just riding along) failures



    Note: I assume that you're here in good faith and not trolling us for reasons/arguments to pull a dodgy on the warranty when you have crashed and not tell us about it.
    Interesting. I'm thinking there is also the possibility of rock/pebble strikes either from being kicked up by your own wheel or by a passing vehicle. It happens. I know the underside of my Synapse carbon fork has quite a bit of pitting on it from road debris. A larger object could conceivably cause a crack.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
    Everyone who trolls the China-direct thread – saying that all those frames are garbage and asking why anyone would ever buy a frame that wasn't warrantied by a big-name manufacturer – should be forced to read through threads like this first.

    It's not surprising that even the top-brand frames sometimes crack – it's the nature of the material. But if they are going to sell bikes for those prices, they ought to back up their warranty and take care of their customers.
    back 5+ years ago, I used to blast the chinese aliexpress frames, saying that they are cheap and not quality and break easily. Yes, that was the case. I live part time in Asia and I know A LOT of people there riding cheap chinese frames or cheap chinese carbon components and YES I've seen many times that these frames and components have literally break apart in spectacular fashion resulting in real serious injuries. Every amateur racer in Asia knows this. Today, the chinese aliexpress stuff are better, but... they are still not at the same level as say a Giant or any of the Bigs. But in light of how arbitrary the Bigs can be toward a warranty and how the chinese frames have improved over the years, I've shifted my opinion to "it's acceptable to buy chinese" as long as you know it's a disposable part and don't expect any service at the price you're paying. But if you're planning to use a bike to race, then I still will not buy generic chinese frames and components, because I'm still seeing a lot of catastrophic failures with devastating injuries from amateur racers using these components in Asia. You're better off buying a used brand name or even aluminum.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Interesting. I'm thinking there is also the possibility of rock/pebble strikes either from being kicked up by your own wheel or by a passing vehicle. It happens. I know the underside of my Synapse carbon fork has quite a bit of pitting on it from road debris. A larger object could conceivably cause a crack.
    rock strike can happen, but if a rock strike is gonna cause cracks on both chainstays, I would expect some major paint chips too. That area of the bike (bottom bracket & the immediate adjoining chainstay region) is usually layered up pretty thick with the carbon, so it would take a tremendous external rock strike to crack it like that, the sort of strike that is loud and one would definitely feel the impact resonating thru to the feet.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    back 5+ years ago, I used to blast the chinese aliexpress frames, saying that they are cheap and not quality and break easily. Yes, that was the case. I live part time in Asia and I know A LOT of people there riding cheap chinese frames or cheap chinese carbon components and YES I've seen many times that these frames and components have literally break apart in spectacular fashion resulting in real serious injuries. Every amateur racer in Asia knows this. Today, the chinese aliexpress stuff are better, but... they are still not at the same level as say a Giant or any of the Bigs. But in light of how arbitrary the Bigs can be toward a warranty and how the chinese frames have improved over the years, I've shifted my opinion to "it's acceptable to buy chinese" as long as you know it's a disposable part and don't expect any service at the price you're paying. But if you're planning to use a bike to race, then I still will not buy generic chinese frames and components, because I'm still seeing a lot of catastrophic failures with devastating injuries from amateur racers using these components in Asia. You're better off buying a used brand name or even aluminum.
    I'm not a racer.

    I would *never* buy from a random seller on alibaba. I would only buy from the large manufacturers like hongfu dengfu and flyxii.

    And I agree entirely, when I buy a china-direct frameset I expect the product to be delivered to specs, and after that – no warranty or service.

    That said, my wife and I have a total of about 25,000 miles on 4 different FlyXii frames. Zero problems whatsoever.

    It's your last point that will probably lead me away from china-direct in the future. Today's aluminum frames are so much lighter and more vertically compliant. Plus, on wider tires, the frame material matters even less than it did before (which was never as much as most people thought). I was all set to buy a new Trek Emonda ALR for my wife's next bike, but then Trek raised the prices by almost 20% (tariff-related, I think).

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