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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    Here is a link to the Jamis series of on/off road bikes. They have models in carbon or steel. Possibly the steel bike is a little more off road then I would want but it is pretty cool for 2K. The first link is a photo of the steel version and the second link is a video that shows first carbon then steel.

    renegadeexploit


    https://youtu.be/8boqEoSFmDg
    in the youtube video above, I know all the trails filmed in it. El Moro, Palm Springs (wind farm), Back Bay, SART. Interesting to see the places you know so well being filmed in an advert! I can say a few things. Almost everyone who rides El Moro rides a mountain bike. Nobody rides on the sand of Palm Spring wind farm. SART is nice and easy at the upper part (filmed in the video), but as you get to the lower part, that Jamis ain't gonna cut it. Back Bay is just nicely paved river trail type of trail that any bike, even tricycles, will do. Nice Jamis commercial!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    I think I would also go with the Tiagra Paralane. That puts a real nice bike in a budget that I could live with if I found myself shopping for a new bike. I like a steel bike and all but the Jamis 2K model comes in at 24.5lbs. It's in the current road bike mag issue which is why I knew of it. Toss in some pedals, seat pack, pump and water and you are now pushing upwards of 30 lbs. I guess the weight is all in the wheels as a tig welded Reynolds 631 frame with carbon fork is not a heavy set up.
    Exactly. I agree 100%.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    in the youtube video above, I know all the trails filmed in it. El Moro, Palm Springs (wind farm), Back Bay, SART. Interesting to see the places you know so well being filmed in an advert! I can say a few things. Almost everyone who rides El Moro rides a mountain bike. Nobody rides on the sand of Palm Spring wind farm. SART is nice and easy at the upper part (filmed in the video), but as you get to the lower part, that Jamis ain't gonna cut it. Back Bay is just nicely paved river trail type of trail that any bike, even tricycles, will do. Nice Jamis commercial!

    I think I know where that is. On the way to Phoenix where my son graduated from the University this year we went through a wind farm area on the highway near Palm Springs. There was a good hamburger place there. It had a Harley inside on display and the place had a retro atmosphere. It was fun. Forgot the name of the place. The burger was not in the same league as Inn and Out.

    Yeah if you are riding sand then you need some big tires. Is Jamis bikes down south someplace?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    I have only spent a little bit of time in SoCal, so I definitely can't disagree with your assessment. I will only point out that the bikes listed above have been designed for pure road riding not gravel roads at all. That's part of what makes them interesting in my opinion. It seems to be pure road road riders that are raving above the new Enve AR 4.5 wheels the most as well. The benefits of running wider wheels and tires is just as present on the road (less rolling resistance, larger contact patch, etc.) and that is of value regardless of where you ride.
    true, I agree these road bikes are versatile. But being in socal, I just don't see their versatility being as applicable fully to the extent like in a place like wet Washington or some rural East coast town (we don't have rural places in Cali, mostly urban and boonies and nobody lives in the bonnies).

    these bikes are also expensive to start. I don't think a "recreational" cyclists would be willing to drop over $1000 for any bike. Around here, the folks most likely to buy these bikes are the cyclists higher up in the "snob" ladder, not a highend all out cycling snob, but definitely not a recreational weekend dad.

    on the topic of wider tires, they're good I have no qualm. Only thing about them is that they can be squirmy under extreme power, like during a sprint, and their handling is just vague as mud under power. I just cannot imagine sprinting with a 28-35c tire with like 50-60 psi, they'd feel like mud. As for rolling resistance, honeslty to me it doesn't matter much, because of my riding is in a group going at a fast pace, that means body and body positioning, and bike handling, are much more important. Just a slight change in body positioning or a slight change in your line while drafting can dramatically increase your required power to 100+ W too keep up when going at 25-28+mph. Most of the major cycling roads in Socal are smooth. Tarmac here is smooth for the most part, smoother than that rolling drum they use to test tire rolling resistance on

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    true, I agree these road bikes are versatile. But being in socal, I just don't see their versatility being as applicable fully to the extent like in a place like wet Washington or some rural East coast town (we don't have rural places in Cali, mostly urban and boonies and nobody lives in the bonnies).

    these bikes are also expensive to start. I don't think a "recreational" cyclists would be willing to drop over $1000 for any bike. Around here, the folks most likely to buy these bikes are the cyclists higher up in the "snob" ladder, not a highend all out cycling snob, but definitely not a recreational weekend dad.

    on the topic of wider tires, they're good I have no qualm. Only thing about them is that they can be squirmy under extreme power, like during a sprint, and their handling is just vague as mud under power. I just cannot imagine sprinting with a 28-35c tire with like 50-60 psi, they'd feel like mud. As for rolling resistance, honeslty to me it doesn't matter much, because of my riding is in a group going at a fast pace, that means body and body positioning, and bike handling, are much more important. Just a slight change in body positioning or a slight change in your line while drafting can dramatically increase your required power to 100+ W too keep up when going at 25-28+mph. Most of the major cycling roads in Socal are smooth. Tarmac here is smooth for the most part, smoother than that rolling drum they use to test tire rolling resistance on
    I can agree with most of that. A couple of these bikes do have affordable/more affordable options though. As outlined above, the Paralane starts @ $2500 for a complete bike and that's the same exact 907g frame you get on the high end bike. BMC starts the the Roadmachine @ $2999, but the frame weighs about 200g more than the 01 and lacks some of the aero features, the new Roubaix starts @ roughly $2600 (Fact 10R Carbon), etc. Again, one of the benefits here is that you don't have to run the wider tires, you can when the terrain and ride call for it, but you can basically have two bikes in one with these models. Put on your 25mm-28mm road tires and you have a fairly standard endurance race bike. Slap on some 28mm-35mm tires and you have a bike that is ideal for adventure riding on fire/gravel roads, etc. I think that's the appeal, but like you said, it may not have much utility in SoCal and similar areas.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    true, I agree these road bikes are versatile. But being in socal, I just don't see their versatility being as applicable fully to the extent like in a place like wet Washington or some rural East coast town (we don't have rural places in Cali, mostly urban and boonies and nobody lives in the bonnies).

    these bikes are also expensive to start. I don't think a "recreational" cyclists would be willing to drop over $1000 for any bike. Around here, the folks most likely to buy these bikes are the cyclists higher up in the "snob" ladder, not a highend all out cycling snob, but definitely not a recreational weekend dad.

    on the topic of wider tires, they're good I have no qualm. Only thing about them is that they can be squirmy under extreme power, like during a sprint, and their handling is just vague as mud under power. I just cannot imagine sprinting with a 28-35c tire with like 50-60 psi, they'd feel like mud. As for rolling resistance, honeslty to me it doesn't matter much, because of my riding is in a group going at a fast pace, that means body and body positioning, and bike handling, are much more important. Just a slight change in body positioning or a slight change in your line while drafting can dramatically increase your required power to 100+ W too keep up when going at 25-28+mph. Most of the major cycling roads in Socal are smooth. Tarmac here is smooth for the most part, smoother than that rolling drum they use to test tire rolling resistance on
    I was just down in the LA area a few weeks ago and I did not see anyplace to ride bikes at all. IT's just traffic signals in every direction for eternity. I suppose So Cal has more to it then the LA area but I do not know my way around or anything.
    Last edited by BikeLayne; 11-14-2016 at 02:31 PM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    I was just down in the LA area a few weeks ago and I did not see anyplace to ride bikes at all. IT's just traffic signals in every direction for eternity. I suppose So Cal has more to it then the LA area but I do not know my way around or anything.
    LA center is HORRIBLE! I would never even consider that a riding place. You need to go outside of LA center, go to the local mountains. For example, go to the Santa Monica mountains (lots of pros and continental teams train here this time of year, I see team Canada train here 2 times, also met the Optum continental team a few years back). Go to Angeles Crest Highway (beautiful and serene on Sunday). Go to Crystal Lake, go to Glendora Mountain. Go north to Ventura. Palos Verdes is a nice place to ride, lots of cyclists ride there.

    Or you could head south to Orange County, which is where I'm at. IMO, south Orange County is a VERY cyclist friendly area, as friendly as it'll get in a metro area. I ride to Oceanside often (going thru one of the biggest Marine base, Camp Pendleton). It helps to have a local cyclist show you around though.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    LA center is HORRIBLE! I would never even consider that a riding place. You need to go outside of LA center, go to the local mountains. For example, go to the Santa Monica mountains (lots of pros and continental teams train here this time of year, I see team Canada train here 2 times, also met the Optum continental team a few years back). Go to Angeles Crest Highway (beautiful and serene on Sunday). Go to Crystal Lake, go to Glendora Mountain. Go north to Ventura. Palos Verdes is a nice place to ride, lots of cyclists ride there.

    Or you could head south to Orange County, which is where I'm at. IMO, south Orange County is a VERY cyclist friendly area, as friendly as it'll get in a metro area. I ride to Oceanside often (going thru one of the biggest Marine base, Camp Pendleton). It helps to have a local cyclist show you around though.
    It sounds good that places are around. I am not going to take a bicycle down for a ride however. It's to far.

  9. #34
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    This thread is timely. I've been in quiver reduction mode since I saw the press release for the BMC Road Machine.

    I sold an SLR-01, a carbon "Endurance" bike, and a 29'er that were sitting in my garage mostly unridden.

    I have a couple of other bikes I'm considering selling to get my current quiver down to 1 before I buy the road machine.

    If the road machine could take about 37mm gravel tire, I could reduce the quiver of bikes to ONE (with two sets of tires) which would be ideal.

    As it is, I'll be keeping my gravel bike with 37mm tubeless gravel tires, and the Road Machine (once I convince myself to pull the trigger). This is all the bike I really need, at least until they come out with a bike similar to the Road Machine that I can swap the gravel wheels to.

    My heart is set on the RM-01 with Ultegra Di2 and Enve 4.5 AR Disc wheels. My brain hasn't quite made the leap yet though. One thing I'm really kind of struggling with is the Seatpost retention system. Being a 'SuperClyde', I have some concerns that it might be a problem down the road. I'm really wanting to see of others have issues with them before I fork over that kind of money. Especially after reading about the issues with the new Tarmacs. I'm also not 100% sold on the proprietary stem business. I still need to figure out the fit details before I know if the thing will even fit, although I did test ride an RM-02 in 61cm and it felt great fit-wise.

  10. #35
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    Some sweet rides here, especially the Focus. My quiver killer would be on a similar spec but titanium with a bit more clearance. 2 wheelsets with a set of 28mm slicks and 36-40mm knobbies.

    Bike design is progressing in a positive direction, IMO.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Before all the dominantly road bike companies jump on the cx/gravel scene, there was Niner making their BSB cx bike. If I were to get a gravel/cx/endurance bike, which is essentially what this topic is about, I would fancy getting the Niner BSB.

    However, living in Socal, there is nowhere to use a gravel/cx bike, other than to use them in a cx event, and even in these cx events, the courses are often man made and not a natural terrain. Same with gravel around here, there is no gravel roads.

    now, mountain biking, on the other hand, is very popular here and there are lots of mtb trail around here. Lately, I've seen some of the hippity-hip roadies wanting to get into "dirt" and so they bring out their cx/gravel bikes onto the dirt... but really, all these bikes are good for is fireroads. There is no way these bike would make for a good singletrack tool. Guess my point is, for Socal market, these bikes are not practical, it's like they're average at many things but good at nothing for the Socal road and mtb scenes.
    Salsa has been making bikes like this for a long time as well...

  12. #37
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    Mostly they just made up categories, names and all that. In 1975 I bought an Eisentraut sport/touring bike and it would ride road, gravel, hardpack no problem. I always liked an all around bike myself that I could pretty much go wherever I felt like within limits of the ride of course. I still do the same thing after all this time. Just a couple of bikes later.

    .

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne"
    Mostly they just made up categories, names and all that. In 1975 I bought an Eisentraut sport/touring bike and it would ride road, gravel, hardpack no problem. I always liked an all around bike myself that I could pretty much go wherever I felt like within limits of the ride of course. I still do the same thing after all this time. Just a couple of bikes later.


    No is claiming to have invented anything. You can ride any bike you want anywhere you want. And you can call your bike anything you want. I had a nice rigid 29'er that made a great adventure/gravel bike, and if I wanted to, I could surely ride it on the road all day long. I would never compare it to anything mentioned in this thread in any meaningful way.

    Can we please not turn every thread into 'my steel bike does all that' conversation? It's getting kinda tired.

    If you don't want a fancy new carbon gravel/adventure/all road bike, that's fine. I don't hold any hard feelings about it, I promise.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post

    My heart is set on the RM-01 with Ultegra Di2 and Enve 4.5 AR Disc wheels. .... Being a 'SuperClyde'
    Last bike i built i went with an oversized (steel) tube set, properly stiff custom 28 spoke wheels, a sprinter's cockpit, and the stiffest premium fork i could find. Also set it up with a drivetrain that could run a 1:1 low gear if necessary- multi day rides, dirt, bikepacking. I'm barely a clyde, but this bike is AWESOME. Easily the fastest descending/cornering/sprinting bike i've owned, surprisingly the most comfortable, and i haven't had to do anything but brake pads/cables/chain in 10k of riding and lots of trialsy/dirt screwing around; i feel like it's indestructible. The ~300g weight penalty is nothing.

    Seriously, a bike set up for your physique kicks the pants off a mass production bike designed for someone 50-100lbs smaller.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    [/COLOR]

    No is claiming to have invented anything. You can ride any bike you want anywhere you want. And you can call your bike anything you want. I had a nice rigid 29'er that made a great adventure/gravel bike, and if I wanted to, I could surely ride it on the road all day long. I would never compare it to anything mentioned in this thread in any meaningful way.

    Can we please not turn every thread into 'my steel bike does all that' conversation? It's getting kinda tired.

    If you don't want a fancy new carbon gravel/adventure/all road bike, that's fine. I don't hold any hard feelings about it, I promise.
    My post had nothing to do with carbon vs steel. It had to do with giving names to different bike styles. In 75 an all around bike was called a sport touring bike. Now it's adventure bikes.. From my perspective I think Adventure bike has a better ring to it.

    We have a nice gravel road close to the house. It's a tough ride due to some severe pitches. In the history of Strava there are only 9 names on the segment going East. The gravel segment is just to the summit and I am 9 out of 9. The easier way is going West as you do most of the climbing on pavement before the gravel section. There are 24 names on that list and I am 20th.

    Country ride in the mountains. No signals and very few cars. No bike riders however except a few of us locals. People from the city come out every weekend to ride but they always stick to the pavement. I think people from San Jose like to come out and do Cienaga Valley which is a beautiful loop of hills, ranches, some wineries, or climb Freemont Peak which is a challenge.
    Last edited by BikeLayne; 11-15-2016 at 07:41 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    We have a nice gravel road close to the house. It's a tough ride due to some severe pitches. In the history of Strava there are only 9 names on the segment. I am 9 out of 9 on the list. So from my perspective in spite of all the options to buy a bike to ride that stretch it seems there are not many people wanting to experience an adventure. It's worthwhile if you like gravel, pavement, riding in beautiful mountains (Diablo range) no traffic signals for the 35mile loop and virtually no cars. You can see why only 9 people would like that.
    FYI; It's possible to experience a ride and like a certain ride or type of ride without downloading stava data for it.

  17. #42
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    this my quiver killer. Cannondale Slate with Surly Knards, updated gearing and dropper post.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    FYI; It's possible to experience a ride and like a certain ride or type of ride without downloading stava data for it.
    Well I rode bikes for about 40 years without Strava but the world moved on and now I have a gadget and Strava is fun and for free. I guess your point is that maybe somebody rode their bikes out there without Strava and I would say that's true. I rode it many times before the net. Strava or not I have yet to see another cyclist out there. And my point was that it's a fun and challenging ride and nobody to speak of is going out there on an adventure bike or a regular road bike as I do.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by grvlgrndr View Post
    this my quiver killer. Cannondale Slate with Surly Knards, updated gearing and dropper post.
    How does that bike ride. Does it feel different making a right turn as opposed to a left turn?

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    Well I rode bikes for about 40 years without Strava but the world moved on and now I have a gadget and Strava is fun and for free. I guess your point is that maybe somebody rode their bikes out there without Strava and I would say that's true. I rode it many times before the net. Strava or not I have yet to see another cyclist out there. And my point was that it's a fun and challenging ride and nobody to speak of is going out there on an adventure bike or a regular road bike as I do.
    Yes, that was my point. I'd go one further too and GUESS that there is a reverse correlation between off-pavement riders and strava use too. The people I've met who are really into gravel and trails don't strike me as the strava type whereas the typical (asphalt) roadie does.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    How does that bike ride. Does it feel different making a right turn as opposed to a left turn?
    It is a little different right to left when you first get on it but after a few rides it becomes natural. Most right turns I have been on are descending with a strong crosswind from the left and most of the left hand turns on my usual ride are off camber so it requires a bit more effort and I am not sure whether it is because of the Lefty or the conditions. I have gotten used to it after my few rides on the bike, but the steering is pretty twitchy to me as I spent the last 12 years exclusively mountain biking and this is my return to road biking. I like this bike and the versatility it offers. I have ridden road, gravel and light singletrack on it and it is a blast.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Yes, that was my point. I'd go one further too and GUESS that there is a reverse correlation between off-pavement riders and strava use too. The people I've met who are really into gravel and trails don't strike me as the strava type whereas the typical (asphalt) roadie does.

    I did not really want to get into a strava thing. It was just a point to show that Adventure bikes are not out on an adventure in a great place to do that. However to ride Browns Valley you have 29miles of regular country road and the gravel section is 6.1 miles. It's the basic loop and I certainly would upload the ride. I have a yearly goal and I upload every ride to reach that.

  23. #48
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    I got my "quiver killer" out for some gravel riding this past weekend, right within the hustle and bustle of New Jersey. My good old Allez with 27's on it. LOL

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TricrossRich View Post
    I got my "quiver killer" out for some gravel riding this past weekend, right within the hustle and bustle of New Jersey. My good old Allez with 27's on it. LOL

    Nice bike and nice photo.

  25. #50
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    This may not be a pure road bike, but boy it's a beauty

    The "Quiver Killers"-casati-gravel-bike.jpg

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