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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    How does that bike ride. Does it feel different making a right turn as opposed to a left turn?
    Have a look at this review, they do mention that it turns right easier than left
    LA VELOCITA - Cannondale Slate 105

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    This may not be a pure road bike, but boy it's a beauty

    Attachment 316992

    It's very nice. I really like the color scheme on it.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    Nice bike and nice photo.
    Here's a closer look.

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  4. #54
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    Bike Radar discussed this topic in their latest bike trends video & article:

    Top 5 road bike trends in 2017 - Video | Cyclingnews.com

    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  5. #55
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    At least here in the US, I have a very hard time believing these bikes are selling well. My reasoning:

    1) The mountain bike market is dead. This would appeal more to that crowd than roadies.
    2) This would be great for dirt trails that are found in the SouthWest and Rockies. Not so much on the East Coast, where a significant chunk of the high end bike market is. The market is therefore more limited.
    3) Existing bike owners are more reticent to buy equipment that is not backward compatible. The need for new wheels specifically will drive the take-up rate down. Combine this with the fact that millennials mostly ride fixie and ride in cities and the market becomes very limited for newer, affluent buyers.
    4) The younger generation either doesn't bike, is obese and sedentary, or lusts after Teslas, and is therefore more interested in electric bikes than bikes that get you healthy.

    Can any of the shop owners comment on how well these bikes are selling?
    Last edited by DrSmile; 11-20-2016 at 02:59 PM.
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  6. #56
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    You didn't mention the Pacific Northwest, with our thousands and thousands of miles or forest and fire roads, many of which are connected by hundreds of miles of rail trails (paved and unpaved). This kind of riding can be found all over the pacific coast between San Francisco and Vancouver Canada.

    Our local BMC shop has been selling an average of about 4 road machines a week since they got them in stock. That doesn't count the online purchases (build and ship). I'm not sure how those are doing. They also sell a *lot* of Norco Search's, which have been available since early 2015. They are more budget friendly that some of the other options out there.

    I'm pretty sure Trek is doing pretty well with the new Domane that ships with 32mm tires, and I know there was a huge fuss over the the specialized shop when the new Roubaix showed up.

    And this is all in an area where Cross racing is getting more and more popular, and many people already own Cross bikes as well as road and mountain bikes.

  7. #57
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    I am very interested in a bike of this class, for three main reasons:

    • My back is starting to hurt as I get older. A more upright position and forgiving ride would be helpful.
    • I moved to Oregon a year ago. Road surfaces are generally ok, but there are many paved trails with iffy surfaces and the occasional gravel stretch.
    • Fenders are pretty much mandatory here in winter, especially on club rides. My steel Lemond provides very little room for this.


    My next road bike will have disc brakes. Because that's what I want and I don't care to discuss it.

    My next frame will be carbon fiber. Because that's what I want and I don't care to discuss it.

    On a slight tangent I will point out that riders in my club show up with everything from folding bikes to gravel grinders to tourers to racers. I find this type of inclusiveness refreshing compared the poseur attitude in SoCal (myself firmly among the coppers of 'tude).

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    You didn't mention the Pacific Northwest, with our thousands and thousands of miles or forest and fire roads, many of which are connected by hundreds of miles of rail trails (paved and unpaved). This kind of riding can be found all over the pacific coast between San Francisco and Vancouver Canada.

    Our local BMC shop has been selling an average of about 4 road machines a week since they got them in stock. That doesn't count the online purchases (build and ship). I'm not sure how those are doing. They also sell a *lot* of Norco Search's, which have been available since early 2015. They are more budget friendly that some of the other options out there.

    I'm pretty sure Trek is doing pretty well with the new Domane that ships with 32mm tires, and I know there was a huge fuss over the the specialized shop when the new Roubaix showed up.

    And this is all in an area where Cross racing is getting more and more popular, and many people already own Cross bikes as well as road and mountain bikes.
    True, I omitted the NW. I could see how discs are helpful in the rainforest... but, that doesn't make my argument any weaker. They're bikes for regional, not national or global markets. Giant sales seem to agree:

    Giant Sees Sales Drop in 2016 - Bike Europe
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  9. #59
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    I get your point that the gravel bike is not for everyone but what would be the harm in taking the Defy and allow clearance for a 38mm tire instead of the 28mm now? It takes 1cm of more room in fork and rear clearance, Which will not make any aero difference and also allow those riders who don't need the off-road abilities to run a standard road tire without issue. Done. Now Giant would not have extra inventory because they have segmented their road market now into 5 categories instead of 3.

    Trek is on the right path with Domane 32mm tires. Slate is a good idea but too aggressive for many (and so many proprietary parts) but a Synapse with 10 mm more clearance would be great.


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  10. #60
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    OK, so people want extra heavy upright bikes with drop bars to ride dirt roads? I don't have miles of gravel so I can't get that lure, but a group ride on that must suck X 1,000. If you have to climb, the weight is a penalty, if you have wind then the position is a penalty. If you don't have any performance goals, then it doesn't matter one bit. Ride a beach cruiser. I have some amazing dirt roads near me that I can ride in the tire track easily on my Conti 23s (granted, at least 25s in reality) with no problem at all. My fatty rides the beach a LOT and snow when I can, and trails when the notion hits me. No quiver killer is going to impact that. None. I'm sticking to my extremist tendencies. A road bike and a not at all, even in a million years, non-road bike. I wouldn't want drop bars on trails for anything... or in the snow, even less so!
    If I knew then what I know now, I woulda done it anyway.

  11. #61
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    A friendly note to RBR members:

    *The fact that you do not own something does not mean it is unnecessary or bad.

    *The fact that you do not like something does not make it unnecessary or bad.

    *The fact that other people like things that you do not own or like is evidence that others have preferences that differ from your own.

    *Finally, none of us are pros and very few, if any, of us are elite racers, so all this stuff we are arguing about involves marginal gains at best. In fact, most of us don't have the fitness nor the flexibility and fit to maximize the benefits of whatever bikes we are riding. In essence, this is all just for kicks and giggles when you really think about it.

    So, please do you and let others do them.
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 11-20-2016 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    OK, so people want extra heavy upright bikes with drop bars to ride dirt roads? I don't have miles of gravel so I can't get that lure, but a group ride on that must suck X 1,000. If you have to climb, the weight is a penalty, if you have wind then the position is a penalty. If you don't have any performance goals, then it doesn't matter one bit. Ride a beach cruiser. I have some amazing dirt roads near me that I can ride in the tire track easily on my Conti 23s (granted, at least 25s in reality) with no problem at all. My fatty rides the beach a LOT and snow when I can, and trails when the notion hits me. No quiver killer is going to impact that. None. I'm sticking to my extremist tendencies. A road bike and a not at all, even in a million years, non-road bike. I wouldn't want drop bars on trails for anything... or in the snow, even less so!
    Is the Paralane and extra heavy bike? I have never seen one but it looks like a pretty normal bike with 28mm tires to me. I bet it is of normal comparable weight to other bikes in the price range.

  13. #63
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    I don't know what qualifies as "Extra Heavy" in PBL's world, but the roadmachine (nor any of the bikes listed) is NOT a heavy bike. Nor is the geometry particularly relaxed or upright. In fact it's more aggressive and has a shorter head tube than the BMC Gran Fondo, which was used in Paris Roubaix and other classics by the BMC team the last few years.

    As long as disc brakes are still allowed in the Peloton when racing season starts, I'm pretty sure we'll see pro's on bikes like these, particularly in the cobbled classics, etc...

  14. #64
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    I think this is a really neat segment. There's a lot of interpretations of what a quiver killer should be like, and that makes them a little tricky to lump all together. For my part, i HATE riding gravel. HATE. But i don't race, love to descend, and can do some pretty awesome rides by connecting one lane roads with a mile or two of single/doubletrack and getting to the top of another tiny road. These bikes do that great. My own bike is built up with this style riding in mind- sturdy (but still light) wheels, wide ratio gears, and just a touch more relaxed than a road race bike.

    I've spent some time on the new roubaix, and it's pretty cool. It doesn't have the lazy floppy feel of the old one and i was able to get the bars down low enough for my preferred fit (and then raised them 10mm). Your hands are kinda disconnected from the grip, but i got used to it quickly and the tip-in with the steering was super direct and it didn't mush around under power. Really neat bike.

    I hope this segment takes off; with the right execution you give up very little speed for a bike with a huge happy place.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    A friendly note to RBR members:

    *The fact that you do not own something does not mean it is unnecessary or bad.

    *The fact that you do not like something does not make it unnecessary or bad.

    *The fact that other people like things that you do not own or like is evidence that others have preferences that differ from your own.

    *Finally, none of us are pros and very few, if any, of us are elite racers, so all this stuff we are arguing about involves marginal gains at best. In fact, most of us don't have the fitness nor the flexibility and fit to maximize the benefits of whatever bikes we are riding. In essence, this is all just for kicks and giggles when you really think about it.

    So, please do you and let others do them.
    All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike?

    A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.
    If I knew then what I know now, I woulda done it anyway.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike?

    A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.
    Don't be silly man. None of these bikes comes anywhere near 25lbs. In fact, you are pretty much typically talking a difference of 18lbs or so vs. 16lbs or so and that's really my point. Most people aren't going to feel that difference. Like many have said on here, if that 2lbs bothers you that much, empty a water bottle, pack a lighter saddle bag, and/or just lay off of the doughnuts for a week, buy a different bike, etc. I have ridden multiple times with people that have a bike that is slightly heavier than mine and it really is non-issue for the most part even on challenging climbs. Unless you are a racer and/or maxing out on the performance end already, you are still talking about marginal gains, which it seems a bit silly to stress and argue over if you are in it for fun and fitness. Moreover, you can get many/most of these bikes down to the 16lb-17lb range if that matters to you as well. That's the point we are making. There's not much of a downside (really) and there are some real benefits. Room for wider tires is what makes the biggest difference, that and new compliance features.

    Finally, I don't mind differences of opinion, I actually like discussing the pros and cons of different bikes. What gets old and annoying is people who come on here and act like the option they are in love with is the only logical option and everything else is so ridiculous. It's juvenile in my opinion. Intelligent minds can differ on pretty much all of this stuff. That's just the way it is.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.
    A friendly note to PBL450.

    If you do not want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the Internet.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike?

    A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.
    Oh and the cool thing about the new extra wide Enve 4.5 AR wheels is that they were designed with aerodynamics in mind. That's actually the whole point behind the wheels. They are also probably lighter than the wheels most of us currently have and can be run tubeless. I also want to point out that you can get into a relatively aero position that will be more than adequate for folks like us out on the road on an endurance race bike if you want to. It's kind of a fiction to suggest you can't. My guess is that it will be more effective for many of us as well because we probably could hold it longer. In fact, many of us are actually riding endurance bikes and not admitting it to ourselves, but those spacers below our stems are pretty much the same thing. Check out the Merckx 525 video linked above. That's one reason they now make an endurance geometry version of their aero bike. Here's more on the wheels:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q7tX_waYh_Y
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 11-21-2016 at 06:46 AM.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    2) This would be great for dirt trails that are found in the SouthWest and Rockies. Not so much on the East Coast, where a significant chunk of the high end bike market is. The market is therefore more limited.
    I can only speak for New England and into Quebec not the rest of the East Coast but you're completely wrong. Just about every 'roadie' I know also has a gravel/trail bike and there is ample places to ride them.

  20. #70
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    Since they do not post weights on the bikes I would have to say I just do not know about that. I could guess the weight of the bikes would be comparable to other brands in the price range. My friend has a Roubaix that is one year old. I do not know how much it weighs but it is very light. He does not have disc brakes.

    As far as aerodynamics go I would not change my cockpit measurements just because I had a different bike. Where I am is what fits me. On the aerodynamics I do not know what would be more aerodynamic is a sidewind (what I actually ride in). I guess I feel that a bike that has oval shaped tubes for headwind is going to work against a side wind a bit. Disc brakes in a side wind is probably slightly negative. Body position in side wind is also unknown to me. I tried changing my position and using my Garmin to see if there is a difference in speed but the test just does not work. When I move my body around then I always initially speed up and then slow down as far as I can tell. So I just ride like everyone else on the hoods, drops and the flats primarily concerned with comfort and bike handling in turns or over rough terrain.

    Anyone know of a link for aerodynamics in a side wind. The stuff I always see around is with a yaw of 15 degrees. We don't have that wind here. I went on a tour of the Specialized facility and I asked questions about their wind tunnel but the guy did not seem to really know much more then there it is and we use it all the time.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLayne View Post
    Since they do not post weights on the bikes I would have to say I just do not know about that. I could guess the weight of the bikes would be comparable to other brands in the price range. My friend has a Roubaix that is one year old. I do not know how much it weighs but it is very light. He does not have disc brakes.

    As far as aerodynamics go I would not change my cockpit measurements just because I had a different bike. Where I am is what fits me. On the aerodynamics I do not know what would be more aerodynamic is a sidewind (what I actually ride in). I guess I feel that a bike that has oval shaped tubes for headwind is going to work against a side wind a bit. Disc brakes in a side wind is probably slightly negative. Body position in side wind is also unknown to me. I tried changing my position and using my Garmin to see if there is a difference in speed but the test just does not work. When I move my body around then I always initially speed up and then slow down as far as I can tell. So I just ride like everyone else on the hoods, drops and the flats primarily concerned with comfort and bike handling in turns or over rough terrain.

    Anyone know of a link for aerodynamics in a side wind. The stuff I always see around is with a yaw of 15 degrees. We don't have that wind here. I went on a tour of the Specialized facility and I asked questions about their wind tunnel but the guy did not seem to really know much more then there it is and we use it all the time.
    A number of reviews out there and posts in here in various places include actual and/or marketed weights for many of these bikes.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Oh and the cool thing about the new extra wide Enve 4.5 AR wheels is that they were designed with aerodynamics in mind. That's actually the whole point behind the wheels. They are also probably lighter than the wheels most of us currently have and can be run tubeless. I also want to point out that you can get into a relatively aero position that will be more than adequate for folks like us out on the road on an endurance race bike if you want to. It's kind of a fiction to suggest you can't. My guess is that it will be more effective for many of us as well because we probably could hold it longer. In fact, many of us are actually riding endurance bikes and not admitting it to ourselves, but those spacers below our stems are pretty much the same thing. Check out the Merckx 525 video linked above. That's one reason they now make an endurance geometry version of their aero bike. Here's more on the wheels:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q7tX_waYh_Y
    More good info on these wheels here at GCN


  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    A number of reviews out there and posts in here in various places include actual and/or marketed weights for many of these bikes.

    I was just looking at the current Road Bike magazine and they have the new Roubaix with the pogo stick handlebars, Dura Ace and disc brakes for review. It is 17.1 lbs as tested. My budget would not allow a Dura Ace bike so mine would be a bit heavier if I was shopping. However bikes in that style are just as light as other bikes out there. I would take a serious look at the Roubaix because they use a Shimano Crank with Praxis these days. I can relate to that and I have tools in the garage to service that set up. Only a test ride would tell the tale of the Pogo stick handlebars. Maybe it's awesome and maybe I would be bouncing up and down in a distressing manner. No idea actually.


    edit: I just popped over to the Specialized website and the Roubaix SL4 sport with 105 is $2K. 105mechanical, no discs and it has the zerts rubber bumpers from before. That would be the production bike I would purchase. However I am not shopping but that is my window shopping budget bike. No weight listed but I bet the lack of disc brakes partly offsets the drop in components from Dura Ace to 105. I bet it's 18lbs max ready for a test ride. If so that is pretty darn good for 2K.
    Last edited by BikeLayne; 11-21-2016 at 08:07 AM.

  24. #74
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    Interesting. I just read on Enve's site that folding beaded clinchers are not recomended. They recommend a 28mm tubeless tire (with or without butyl tube) and max pressure of 80psi.

    I've only ever run Conti GP 4 Season or GP4000 IIS, so I guess I'm looking around for a 28mm tubeless compatible road tire.

    https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...earance-Notice

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    Interesting. I just read on Enve's site that folding beaded clinchers are not recomended. They recommend a 28mm tubeless tire (with or without butyl tube) and max pressure of 80psi.

    I've only ever run Conti GP 4 Season or GP4000 IIS, so I guess I'm looking around for a 28mm tubeless compatible road tire.

    https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...earance-Notice
    I think Schwalbe has some, there are others out there as well.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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