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  1. #26
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    Haven't ridden either, think those designs look like crap.

  2. #27
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    search forum

    hey guys why all the anger.
    the question was simple compare a fake to a real one.

    Just search the forum there are a few guys in this forum that own both the real Pinarello and also a fake.

    read joe below but there are more.

    Also Do a search for user RC28 he also has a fake and a real one.

    Joe.90 below


    11-10-2011 #71
    Joe.90
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    I have three carbon bikes..1 for racing 2 for training/other

    One is a Pinarello F4:13, one a colnago C50, the other is a Chinese Pinarello prince copy.
    Guess which one is my race bike???



    Wrong!!!. The fake seems faster. (..waits for reaction)
    Last edited by mmatrix; 12-25-2011 at 12:05 PM.

  3. #28
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    Got to declare my motive...........could be throwing petrol on the fire!

    I wanted to get feedback on real vs. fake as I'm currently in the process of building up a Chinerello Dogma 60.1

    I don't accept that the frame looks crap etc......it is beautiful, a fantasticlly well made copy. Yes, I know all the ethical arguments, but it is the only way I'm ever going to get near anything like this. Real cost would be somewhere near Ģ8k, my costs are going to be less than Ģ3k. Everything except the Groupset - I'm not going for anything except the very best here, 2012 Super Record Ti, is China/Taiwan copy. The wheels came from Sweden, but I found they were manufactured in Taiwan (label on the box)

    Below is the current status on the build. I ordered the Groupset yesterday, so need to check the claimed weight vs.actual.


    A bore is a fellow who persists in talking about himself when you want to talk about yourself.

  4. #29
    Hucken The Fard Up !
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    I can't see the logic behind "saving" money on a fake frame but splurging on Super Record.
    Quote Originally Posted by zank
    They're just bikes. Ride 'em in the rain, salt, snow and crap to fully appreciate them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Kelly
    The thing about the cold is that you can never tell how cold it is from looking out a kitchen window. You have to dress up, get out training and when you come back, you then know how cold it is.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa_Lover View Post
    I can't see the logic behind "saving" money on a fake frame but splurging on Super Record.
    I think if he could get a clone Super Record, he would. Business opportunity for somebody in a lower-wage country maybe? Campagnolo clones? It can be called "Clonepagnolo"!

    Anyway, I won't get into the ethics of cloning or copying designs, but if anything else this brings to question the effectiveness of the EU manufacturing rule cited: " ... substantial, economically justified processing or working in an undertaking equipped for that purpose and resulting in the manufacture of a new product or representing an important stage of manufacture."

    If we extrapolate, the question is really on how to value something economically. How long before this thread gets moved to PO?

    And Salsa_Lover, Switzerland has stricter rules, right? I'm sitting here eating a "Made in Switzerland" Muesli!

    Oh, and Merry Xmas to everybody!

  6. #31
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    John just build the bike to your spec that you are happy with and don't get to caught up with all the badge snobs that are so quick to knock your bike build
    Happy Christmas

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
    thats not what he said.

    he is against counterfeits. rightfully so.
    /\

    You got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigrider View Post
    Teh Lounge- "Its not just for weirdos anymore. It is for those trying to escape the noobsauce questions."
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    Trolling the lounge is like noodling for piranha.


    The Daily Grind Cycling Journal & Tailwind Coaching

  8. #33
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    I assume everyone has seen the website

    PinarelloChina.com | Buy Pinarello Carbon Bike Frame from China, OEM Carbon Bike Frame

    Nice paint jobs.

  9. #34
    Hucken The Fard Up !
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    I think if he could get a clone Super Record, he would. Business opportunity for somebody in a lower-wage country maybe? Campagnolo clones? It can be called "Clonepagnolo"!

    Anyway, I won't get into the ethics of cloning or copying designs, but if anything else this brings to question the effectiveness of the EU manufacturing rule cited: " ... substantial, economically justified processing or working in an undertaking equipped for that purpose and resulting in the manufacture of a new product or representing an important stage of manufacture."

    If we extrapolate, the question is really on how to value something economically. How long before this thread gets moved to PO?

    And Salsa_Lover, Switzerland has stricter rules, right? I'm sitting here eating a "Made in Switzerland" Muesli!

    Oh, and Merry Xmas to everybody!
    Not only Switzerland, I guess it is Europe wide.

    If you are caught bringing in a counterfeit, even as a particular, ( like for example a fake Rolex or a LV purse ) you'll have to pay a big fine and you could also face prison.

    I see the point on saving a little coin and purchasing one of those bland and cheap Chinese frames. But why if you are not a Fred with social scale issues, would you want a fake copy of something so recognisable ?
    Quote Originally Posted by zank
    They're just bikes. Ride 'em in the rain, salt, snow and crap to fully appreciate them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Kelly
    The thing about the cold is that you can never tell how cold it is from looking out a kitchen window. You have to dress up, get out training and when you come back, you then know how cold it is.

  10. #35
    classiquesklassieker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa_Lover View Post
    Not only Switzerland, I guess it is Europe wide.

    If you are caught bringing in a counterfeit, even as a particular, ( like for example a fake Rolex or a LV purse ) you'll have to pay a big fine and you could also face prison.

    I see the point on saving a little coin and purchasing one of those bland and cheap Chinese frames. But why if you are not a Fred with social scale issues, would you want a fake copy of something so recognisable ?
    So Swiss rules on calling something "made in Switzerland" = EU rules?

    Are you asking the masses who are willing to buy fake Rolex, TAG, and many other Swiss brands? :-)

  11. #36
    Born to chase Ducks
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    Aside from the ethics of buying a knockoff, which are not immaterial, I prefer to buy my equipment from actual bike companies with know names and actual, legitimate US distribution channels for my own safety!

    I own a 2011 Felt F3. A bike designed in the US, and manufactured, for Felt, in Taiwan. The frame and fork were a new design for 2011, and I was an early adopter. Felt, in it's quality / continuous conformance testing, had a carbon fork fail in the lab, and even though it exceeded the standards set by the CPSC, and technically, they were covered, it didn't meet their own internal standards so they recalled all affected forks.

    It was a very costly decision for Felt, monetarily, and it sucked to have to take my bike off the road while they came up with a solution, and rolled it out to the field. In the end, I ended up with an Enve replacement fork, and a strong sense that I had bought from the right company.

    Based on my daily dealings with legitimate, sister company joint ventures at work with companies in China, there is absolutely no frakking way, that I would buy a knockoff direct from these hosers.

    It truly is just not worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    I cannot decide whether the seafoam green Lounge kit is cursed or a suit of armor that protects us...like a lycra St. Christopher's medal.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC28 View Post
    To address the OP, I have ridden both a "Chinarello" and a real Pinarello Dogma Sky. To tell you the truth, I found differences in ride qualities to be minimal and I doubt that many people , if blindfolded, could tell them apart.


    There was another thread I believe in the Pinarello subforum which documented all the differences between the Chinarellos and Pinarellos.Those differences have changed a bit since now the replicas are being made out of an updated mold that addresses many (but not all) of the physical differences
    Just so that we don't lose track of the one worthwhile reply.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilesleepy View Post
    Haven't ridden either, think those designs look like crap.
    Then, you should just say nothing and be polite to the OP.

  14. #39
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    Hmm, since it's Christmas here's some gas to pour on the fire .
    found and interesting video on you tube showing the Pinarrelo factory being toured by a Japanese buyer. Looks like they do more than just paint.
    1) the raw Carbon frame and forks are first tested in load frames for stress-cycles, durability, strength
    2) The Raw carbon mold has the drop out's bonded in (glued )
    3) the frame is then hand finished and painted.
    So the difference is in the final fit and finish + little extra testing. Like the Felt bike mentioned above your also getting a company with a name/reputation to protect standing behind it. Is that worth and extra $5K = personal opinion

    Pinarello Bicycles, made in china - YouTube

    I'm not a sponsored rider, i pay to race, sot authenticity to me is not important.
    "Pee-wee Herman loved his bicycle more than life itself"

  15. #40
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    another thing is I really don't understand this fighting about Pinarrelo anyway, I mean who gives a crap?
    If you want a 100% pure Italian bike buy a Colnago

    The full creation of a Colnago EPS frame - 100% Made in Italy - YouTube
    "Pee-wee Herman loved his bicycle more than life itself"

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