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  1. #1
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    I am pretty much deal set on an R5 but I was talked into testing the Sworks Venge and 65.1. I would like to hear from anyone with experience as test rides are usually too short. LBS says the S5 Cervelo is much more hard core than the Venge so it would be a better Aero bike if you also had a road bike, where as the Venge could be one bike for both. I am pretty sure the Venge is more aggressive than the Pinarello and the R5. How does the S5 compare?

    I dont know much about the 65.1 except that it made the R5 next to it look very plain, like a new Ferrari parked next to an old base 911. I know it will be heavier than the R5 by a decent amount. The R5 may be better in every category but that Pinarello sure did look good. Black and red with some big aero rims.....Maybe the R5 is more for the serious rider and the 65.1 is more for the rich doctor? maybe the other way around?

    I do like long fast solo rides so maybe I should lean more towards aero? I think if I trained enough Id be plenty fast on my R5 if I put some 303s on it and used C24s for climbing rides.
    Dogma 65.1 CAAD 10 Cervelo RS Felt CX F65X
    Epic Expert Flash Alloy 1 Boris Fatbike

  2. #2
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    I replied to your original thread but thought I'd chime in here. I previously had a 2011 R3 equipped with Red, I have nothing negative to say about the bike it was a great ride. I did recently purchase a Dogma Think 65.1 and love it. Obviously everyone is different, I just prefer some of the ride characteristics of the Dogma. I don't think either bike makes you more or less of a serious rider, they are both tremendous and it really comes down to which bike is a better fit for you and which one just "speaks" to you. The R5 will probably be lighter than the 65.1 but I will say that my 65.1 built with 2012/13 Red and 303 carbon clinchers came in at 15.4 lbs. so it is a light bike. I have found that I prefer the cornering and handling of the 65.1 better than my R3 but again, this is also rider dependent. The good news is, you won't go wrong regardless of what you choose so have fun with it!

  3. #3
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    I have heard the opposite from what your lbs says, the Venge is more hardcore then the S5, I ride with a guy that has a Venge and he said the same thing. I think the S5 ride is very good considering it being very aero. I would go aero or climbing, if I get another bike to go with my S5 it would be a stiff very light bike for climbing (R5). You can't go wrong with any of the bikes you are looking at. Try to ride them all and get what feels the best. Also figure out what you are really looking for (weight or aero) from the bike and how you will use the bike the most.
    2012 Cervelo S5 Team
    2012 Felt Z6 (sold)

  4. #4
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    I just went from a 2010 Cervelo R3 SL to the Dogma 65.1. The Dogma is an incredible bike and quite honestly I didn't think it would be much different than my R3SL, boy was I wrong. As far as the weight "penalty" for the Dogma, I sure don't notice it as I've set a ton of personal records on several of the climbs I do here in SoCal. The bike turns on rails, gets up to speed like it has a motor on it and is more comfy than my R3SL. Good luck with your selection!

  5. #5
    AKA: Sheila Muirenn
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    I have a Pinarello Quattro, several steps down from the Dogma, but still race geometry. Amazing, smooth, responsive, handles anything. Just have to think where I want to go and the bike does it. Handles 90 degree turns and back-angling no problem. (Back-angle, guy turns in front of my wheel without warning on a group ride, I angle away and backwards, and actually get out of it

    The Dogma is better, or so I hear.

    Test ride a Pina, and you're finished.

    Not that I'm biased. ;)
    Last edited by aureliajulia; 12-30-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #6
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    The good news is that when you get up into this range of bikes you can just choose based on fit and feel. You can't go wrong since all your choices are great ones. The seat stays on the R5 are amazing looking from the side...You almost can't see them!
    Felt F3 (RED)
    Fuji Roubaix ACR 1.0

  7. #7
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    If you're not racing and just doing long solo rides I'd lean towards the R5 or even something like a Roubaix (s-works if you need the notoriety). Why penalize yourself with the crappy ride of a Venge or S5 to gain 2.5 seconds over a 20 km time trial when you're not racing someone?

  8. #8
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    Why not also consider the Cannondale Super Six EVO..it's been voted best bike in the world by Tour magazine, & with one of the lightest frames ever made.
    I am also a fan of Cervelo's, RS and my new R3 with Q Rings, the R3 is a step up in performance.
    I note the comment of the owner who has gone to the Dogma saying he does not notice much difference in Weight penalty, but of course there must be, given that the more weight the more is required to get the bike up the hill. However, perhaps the stiffness compensates? Of maybe it's just better set up?
    Specialised too has to be a bike to be considered.
    Let us know what you decide

  9. #9
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    I tried both the Dogma & Evo. The Cannondale was my favourite. Weight on climbs is important to me though.

    It's down to looks, feel, handling & your time testing. It's plenty of money the lbs will not mind if you trial agsin!

  10. #10
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    Although I have spent several hours looking at pictures of the Pinarello, from what I have pieced together it may be 1.5 or more heavier than the R5. its going to have to feel pretty good to make up for that but DAMN does it look good, especially blacked out or red and black. The Pinarello also uses an Italian BB which may be changed soon and the frame warranty is only 3 years. It is also more $ at 5600 list for frame vs 5900 list for RED R5 complete bike. It also has no aero benefit at all and I do like to go fast. The Venge is very well rated besides sluggish feeling while accelerating.

    I cant wait for the weather to get better so I can try them out!
    It will also be interesting to see what is coming out in a couple of years as far as aero vs light weight. I would not be surprised to see these categories get really blurry in the future .
    Dogma 65.1 CAAD 10 Cervelo RS Felt CX F65X
    Epic Expert Flash Alloy 1 Boris Fatbike

  11. #11
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    I customised my bike, build from a light frame back in 2011. For average non racing owners who love riding it doesn't matter to pay extra for aero. Extra seconds don't count.

    However, if like me you live in the mountains or near steep terrain then a lightweight is important as the gears that match your legs. A compact crank with 28-11t may not be as good as a 32-11t. So consider such things too. You lose upto 5kph on straights between front cranks of 50 instead of say 53 (approximate guesswork as I haven't properly calculated it) but from first hand comparison and reading others report it.

    I made sure I put on light wheels (Dura-Ace 25s but a similar cheaper set I also bought are the RS80s. Often better than stock on some new bikes.

    Italian bikes are quite showy & matches the Italian flair and heritage. You may not like the gear changes of the Campy gears to Shimano or SRAM. I have the latter two on my bikes.

    Don't rush, don't fall pure for the looks. Enjoy riding them all soon. The Evo comes in a lovely black

  12. #12
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    It really will come down to your test rides. For me, purchasing a bike is a combination of how I feel on it and what it looks like. There are plenty of people on this forum that are far more knowledgable than I when it comes to weight versus aero versus frame design but I can say that between the bikes you are looking at, you are probably splitting hairs, obviously most of it comes down to the rider. I live in the Adirondack Mountains in upstate NY and can tell you that I love climbing and I love how my Dogma climbs and descends. That being said, the R3 was great too! I recently switched from a standard 53/39 crank to a 52/36 and am very happy with it, I use an 11-26 cassette. This is all very rider dependent as well but I am excited for you to test all the bikes and have fun with it!

  13. #13
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    Who makes 11-32 cassette? Shimano&SRAM MTB?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by framesti View Post
    Who makes 11-32 cassette? Shimano&SRAM MTB?
    SRAM make this cassette wifli I think.

  15. #15
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    SRAM make this cassette wifli I think.
    Correct: SRAM

    Spoke to LBS when I visited Belgium & he said on the 2011 SRAM the widest cassette is 32-11t

  16. #16
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallstreet View Post
    Correct: SRAM

    Spoke to LBS when I visited Belgium & he said on the 2011 SRAM the widest cassette is 32-11t
    PS not for MTB for the road

    Anyone riding a Sram Force, 50-34 and 12-32?

    Seems possible on SRAM force

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_D View Post
    If you're not racing and just doing long solo rides I'd lean towards the R5 or even something like a Roubaix (s-works if you need the notoriety). Why penalize yourself with the crappy ride of a Venge or S5 to gain 2.5 seconds over a 20 km time trial when you're not racing someone?
    Having spent many hours on an S5, there's nothing crappy at all about the ride. With smart choices in tires, tire pressure, bars, seat, bar tape it can be the most comfortable bike you've ever been on. I'd save the cash though and look at an S2.
    Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

  18. #18
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    Read this:-
    http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/03/26/...ero-road-bike/

    Look at other aero like Scott Foil

    Important you spend two visits & two rides - at these prices ;) worth it if you race and do lots of mileage at fast speeds.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the link Wallstreet

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Wallstreet;4239045]Read this:-
    Long Term Review: Cervelo S5 Aero Road Bike - Bike Rumor

    Look at other aero like Scott Foil

    thanks - I am leaning towards getting a roadbike now and maybe doing some TRIs and adding an aero bike in the future unless the Venge or S5 just blow me away. they will both get shorter test rides while the other 2 will get longer rides. I am going to do a few century rides this year with lots of climbing. The R5 is quite a bit cheaper than the Dogma and it is almost definitely a better overall bike as far as engineering / weight etc. if I'm smart I will save the italian for when I turn 50 or reach some big goal. But I might be dumb. There are a few color combos that are incredible for the Dogma!
    Dogma 65.1 CAAD 10 Cervelo RS Felt CX F65X
    Epic Expert Flash Alloy 1 Boris Fatbike

  21. #21
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    Review: Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 | Cyclingnews.com

    Very good review of the dogma 65.1, you may have to copy and paste the link because for some reason I couldn't paste it as a hyperlink.

    I definitely agree with Wallstreet that at these prices, ride them twice and for as long as the shop will let you! Have fun

  22. #22
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    it did paste as a hyperlink...good

  23. #23
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    S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?

    I understand totally. You fall in love & feel inspired. Motivates you. That's really important to select what you want to feel great on.

    I put in light wheelset: dura ace C24s. Zipp 202 is another upgrade great for climbs. For sensible money the Dura Ace were great for climbing. The LBS let me try a full range of bikes (I flew in to the UK) from 9am to 10am I was fitted & measured, then 10-4pm I was trying bikes. I tried the Foil & other similar Aero bikes. It just wasn't for me. Nor was the flair of the Italian. I ended up selecting a super light weight frame: Scott Addict matte black & selecting all the build. My goal was mountain killer. It stood without pedals around 6.35kg. It really helped climbs but tbh you become a better athlete by training. I have since bought 2 further bikes & become more fit. The muscles have a memory and after a break this Christmas I look forward to getting riding soon.

    Why I didn't go for a top Cannondale was it was too comfy/plush. I preferred the direct feel & response.

    It sounds like you know what you want, just let the other bike be a future goal. Note there are people who by top bikes but never really ride them & end up selling after a 1-2years. I bought a 6k bike for 1.5k once.

    But you have to buy this next bike new, don't take the risk. Take your good time.

  24. #24
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    Venge - my choice, maybe not yours

    I am happy with the Venge. I just moved from a Tarmac so the geo is about the same sans a shorter head tube which is still longer then the Dogma. Check out this link for more info.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails S Works Venge, R5, S5 or Dogma 65.1? who tested or owns one?-venge.jpg  

  25. #25
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    Donn, if limiting your choices to those listed, my vote is for the S-Works. However, if you're going to spend that much for a frame, then try to ride a Colnago C-59 (good luck with that in DC, though, it proved too hard for me to find one) or Time, Look, Parlee. That'll mean switching LBS though. And I'm trying hard not to shill.

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