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Seven, Roark, Strong, Kish....

9K views 28 replies 24 participants last post by  HANK 
G
#1 ·
Custom Ti frames...so many to chose from...
Seven Axiom ($2700 frame only) - butted Ti (2.8 lbs? for 54 cm)
Roark ($2175 frame and fork) - straight gauges..no local dealers to help you for fit
Strong frames ($2200 frame only) - straight gauges...also has good reputation
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Dean ($2200 for the 6/4) - wow...6/4 and very light...
not to mention IF.....

There are probably more to chose from, and i just like to have some opinions. is it worth to spend the extra for the butted Axiom. I'd like to have a light, quick yet comfortable bike that will last for a long time. And I don't want my frame builder to go out of business in few years and dissapear...
 
#2 ·
speedwei said:
Custom Ti frames...so many to chose from...
Seven Axiom ($2700 frame only) - butted Ti (2.8 lbs? for 54 cm)
Roark ($2175 frame and fork) - straight gauges..no local dealers to help you for fit
Strong frames ($2200 frame only) - straight gauges...also has good reputation
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Dean ($2200 for the 6/4) - wow...6/4 and very light...
not to mention IF.....

There are probably more to chose from, and i just like to have some opinions. is it worth to spend the extra for the butted Axiom. I'd like to have a light, quick yet comfortable bike that will last for a long time. And I don't want my frame builder to go out of business in few years and dissapear...
....what about the serotta concours ti? its more expensive than the axiom, but its an amazing bike. It maybe outside your price range (which is no surprise, it is alot of money), but its worth a look.
 
#3 ·
I think Seven or IF may be your best bets. If looking for somewhat rare bikes, very nice, with a strong company behind them- I would go with the IF Ti Crown Jewel. Very spiffy!

:)
 
#4 ·
speedwei said:
Custom Ti frames...so many to chose from...
Seven Axiom ($2700 frame only) - butted Ti (2.8 lbs? for 54 cm)
Roark ($2175 frame and fork) - straight gauges..no local dealers to help you for fit
Strong frames ($2200 frame only) - straight gauges...also has good reputation
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Dean ($2200 for the 6/4) - wow...6/4 and very light...
not to mention IF.....

There are probably more to chose from, and i just like to have some opinions. is it worth to spend the extra for the butted Axiom. I'd like to have a light, quick yet comfortable bike that will last for a long time. And I don't want my frame builder to go out of business in few years and dissapear...
I'm riding a second-hand steel Strong road bike... it's so nice. Even though I bought the Strong used, Carl has been a pleasure to deal with. I needed a new seat bolt binder and called up Strong to order one. Carl called me personally to talk about the binder bolt problem, tell me he didn't have it in stock but tell me where to get it. Furthermore, he remembered building the frame and its specs based on the sketchy details I had about its previous life (it lived somewhere in Utah and it was blue).

Seven or IF would also be great bikes, no doubt. I dig my Strong and I like the company a lot. In the Northeast, IFs and Sevens are pretty common; Strong isn't, so people are always asking me about my bike.

If I were going custom tomorrow, it would still be a toss up I think. Seven and IF are about a 4-5 hour drive from me. Strong is in Montana.

For what it's worth, Strong is doing a mini sale on custom steel and ti road frames. 20% off steel, 10% ti. It's limited to the first 10 steel and 5 ti frames (or something like that).

www.strongframes.com
 
#5 ·
A little feedback on Roark...

You don't see these frames much outside of the Midwest. These guys are relatively new to the bike biz with a former background in the military industry. The frames that I have seen have nice welds and looked very well constructed. My only concern would be their experience "fitting" people to bikes. If you know what frame angles/lengths you are comfortable with then they should do a good job. At $2175 you might also consider some other Ti frame manufacturers (Strong, Moots, etc.)...
 
G
#6 ·
Ever heard of Epic?

Thanks for all the suggestions and info. I thought of the same way about geometry. if i can find a good bike fitter and get the right geometry built, then most of these are all pretty good. I'm still leaning toward Seven, but the price just seems higher than others.

I came cross Epic (www.epicti.com) yesterday. I never heard of these frames. they have very reasonable prices. anybody seen these?

I'm here in the So Cal area. I've seen plenty of Seven, Moots, Merlin in the pack. probably never seen Strong or Roark or Jade. Not to mention Epic....
 
#7 ·
Seven Elium

speedwei said:
Custom Ti frames...so many to chose from...
Seven Axiom ($2700 frame only) - butted Ti (2.8 lbs? for 54 cm)
Roark ($2175 frame and fork) - straight gauges..no local dealers to help you for fit
Strong frames ($2200 frame only) - straight gauges...also has good reputation
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Dean ($2200 for the 6/4) - wow...6/4 and very light...
not to mention IF.....

There are probably more to chose from, and i just like to have some opinions. is it worth to spend the extra for the butted Axiom. I'd like to have a light, quick yet comfortable bike that will last for a long time. And I don't want my frame builder to go out of business in few years and dissapear...

I just picked up a demo Seven Elium 2004 which had low miles on it from my LBS. They had it built up with '04 Dura Ace and Reynolds carbon aero wheels. I swapped out the wheels for the Kysrium SL's which I had prior experience with and preferred over the ride of the Reynolds. I got a great price because the frame was originally sent as a demo as stated and it was in my size.
I obtained the signature size with a 10 degree sloping top tube which fits me prefectly. The ride is unbelievable. The bike is extremely smooth but also quite responsive. I came off aluminum/carbon and full carbon bikes and much prefer the ride of titanium. It completely blows the full carbon away in responsiveness and certainly takes the edge off the aluminum ride characteristic.
My price, although not full retail, was still high but I justified it by selling all my other bikes and put it in my head that this would be my final frame. The craftmanship of the frame is phenomenal when you check the welds over and the carbon weave is just different from everything else I've seen. The bike handles very tight and although I won't be racing it, it certainly begs to be pushed. The bike is light for titanium and I really have no complaints aside from being alittle self concious when out riding with others hoping they don't think I'm some snob.
I also like the beefy fork that Seven overengineered after looking at the Reynolds type forks. It's all matte carbon with a Seven logo and it's mint looking. Even though my bike is a stocker, with the Seven monogramed stem it looks like a custom job. They certainly take pride in what they put out and I would certainly recommend anybody looking to give them a once over.
 
#8 ·
speedwei said:
Custom Ti frames...so many to chose from...
Seven Axiom ($2700 frame only) - butted Ti (2.8 lbs? for 54 cm)
Roark ($2175 frame and fork) - straight gauges..no local dealers to help you for fit
Strong frames ($2200 frame only) - straight gauges...also has good reputation
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Dean ($2200 for the 6/4) - wow...6/4 and very light...
not to mention IF.....

There are probably more to chose from, and i just like to have some opinions. is it worth to spend the extra for the butted Axiom. I'd like to have a light, quick yet comfortable bike that will last for a long time. And I don't want my frame builder to go out of business in few years and dissapear...

I have a Seven Axiom ordered and could not be more pleased withe the experience. Prior to ordering, I was able to ride about 80 miles (over 3 days and on a veriety of terrain) on a signature size Axiom that was about my size, and it felt great. I was also very happy with the fit process and communication between myself, the bike shop, and Seven.

You mentioned some concern about the price of an Axiom being higher than the other bikes you are considering, but it is the only one with butted tubes. If the price is that much of a concern, Seven also makes an Alaris (straight gauge) for $1995.

All the bikes you have mentioned sound like great rides, and I'm sure you will be pleased with whatever you choose. I hope this helped a little. Good luck.

Jason
 
#9 ·
??????

Steve-O said:
You don't see these frames much outside of the Midwest. These guys are relatively new to the bike biz with a former background in the military industry. The frames that I have seen have nice welds and looked very well constructed. My only concern would be their experience "fitting" people to bikes. If you know what frame angles/lengths you are comfortable with then they should do a good job. At $2175 you might also consider some other Ti frame manufacturers (Strong, Moots, etc.)...
Seven not seen outside the midwest? Around DC, they're all over the place. I ride an Axiom Ti custom that is a pure work of art....the bike is a joy to race and ride...worth every penny.
 
#10 ·
Wasn't Referring to

Dctrofspin said:
Seven not seen outside the midwest? Around DC, they're all over the place. I ride an Axiom Ti custom that is a pure work of art....the bike is a joy to race and ride...worth every penny.
Wasn't referring to Seven. My post was on Roark... You can check them out here www.roarkcycle.com

As for Epic mentioned above... They are a small manufacturer out of BC Canada. I saw them mentioned more on MTBr a few years ago (They are somewhat of an oddity making XC bikes in the freeride crazy north shore area). No real knowledge on these guys since they are a relatively new player....
 
#11 ·
Another one to consider

speedwei said:
Custom Ti frames...so many to chose from...
Seven Axiom ($2700 frame only) - butted Ti (2.8 lbs? for 54 cm)
Roark ($2175 frame and fork) - straight gauges..no local dealers to help you for fit
Strong frames ($2200 frame only) - straight gauges...also has good reputation
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Dean ($2200 for the 6/4) - wow...6/4 and very light...
not to mention IF.....

There are probably more to chose from, and i just like to have some opinions. is it worth to spend the extra for the butted Axiom. I'd like to have a light, quick yet comfortable bike that will last for a long time. And I don't want my frame builder to go out of business in few years and dissapear...
Tom Kellogg, a pioneer in titanium and the original force behind Merlin Metalworks...

www.spectrum-cycles.com
 
#12 ·
When we considered building some titanium Herons a while back, I took a look at a number of manufacturers. The guys at Roark *really* know their stuff. Their main business is aerospace, and the person who welds their frames also welds parts for B2 bombers and the space shuttle. Their quality control and manufacturing tolerances are insanely good.

Their frames are very well thought out and are beautiful to boot. If I were in the market for titanium, Roark would be top on my list.
 
G
#14 ·
Merlin on sale on Excel

I see the Agilis is on sale at Excel. Are these still good these days? noticed i never did mentioned and consider Litespeed...

I test rode a Axiom and it felt really good. The only other Ti bike i rode before was a friend's Merlin Road (2001?). I just remember it felt pretty stable. This Axiom accelerate quickly and has a "springing"\snappy feel. Not sure if it is the little flex and spring action Ti frame has. Compare to my S-Works, it ain't bad of sprinter. The shop told me it is probably only a "6" on Seven's scale.

I'd like to have a bike I want to keep riding for a long time. Not too many way to upgrade....Kind of like my Turner XCE ('02), tho the new one saved a lot of weight, but it is still a great frame to ride. Hard to see spending thousands to upgrade. However, for a road bike, i'd like the frame to be sub-three lbs and still to be stiff and durable.

Roark are nice...Woody seems like a cool guy to work with. i'd still consider them.
 
#15 ·
My Axiom

I got a Seven axiom after test riding dozens of bikes. The seven just was so clearly more comfortable, the choice was clear. Seven and the LBS all worked very well with me to get a frame that med some particular needs-it's quasi-cyclocross, and although it is a fantastic cruiser, climber, and commuter, I can also ride firetrails with aplomb- 28c Rivendell tires on Kysrium SSC's.
The bike is beautiful, perfect welds, just the right handling- I couldn't be happier with it.
 
#16 ·
anuywaka said:
I just picked up a demo Seven Elium 2004 which had low miles on it from my LBS. They had it built up with '04 Dura Ace and Reynolds carbon aero wheels. I swapped out the wheels for the Kysrium SL's which I had prior experience with and preferred over the ride of the Reynolds. I got a great price because the frame was originally sent as a demo as stated and it was in my size.
I obtained the signature size with a 10 degree sloping top tube which fits me prefectly. The ride is unbelievable. The bike is extremely smooth but also quite responsive. I came off aluminum/carbon and full carbon bikes and much prefer the ride of titanium. It completely blows the full carbon away in responsiveness and certainly takes the edge off the aluminum ride characteristic.
My price, although not full retail, was still high but I justified it by selling all my other bikes and put it in my head that this would be my final frame. The craftmanship of the frame is phenomenal when you check the welds over and the carbon weave is just different from everything else I've seen. The bike handles very tight and although I won't be racing it, it certainly begs to be pushed. The bike is light for titanium and I really have no complaints aside from being alittle self concious when out riding with others hoping they don't think I'm some snob.
I also like the beefy fork that Seven overengineered after looking at the Reynolds type forks. It's all matte carbon with a Seven logo and it's mint looking. Even though my bike is a stocker, with the Seven monogramed stem it looks like a custom job. They certainly take pride in what they put out and I would certainly recommend anybody looking to give them a once over.
I was just at Seven and their new 5E fork is made by Reynolds. I just ordered a custom Alaris (I'm a big rider), and after checking Serotta, Litespeed, etc. went with the Seven for the custom geometry. My LBS uses the Serotta Fit-cycle, and if you are going to spend the bucks on a high end frame I highly recommend going through the process. I also have to say the Seven purchase process has been terrific.
 
#17 ·
smacdonald said:
I got a Seven axiom after test riding dozens of bikes. The seven just was so clearly more comfortable, the choice was clear. Seven and the LBS all worked very well with me to get a frame that med some particular needs-it's quasi-cyclocross, and although it is a fantastic cruiser, climber, and commuter, I can also ride firetrails with aplomb- 28c Rivendell tires on Kysrium SSC's.
The bike is beautiful, perfect welds, just the right handling- I couldn't be happier with it.
I was asked to post a pic:
 
#19 ·
speedwei said:
anybody seen these?
While in Canada I saw a few Epics. They were nice bikes, good specs, nice welds, etc, etc. With the limited correspondance I had with them, they were great to deal with.

I like the look of the Falcon, but the headtubes are on the short side. Custom geometry isn't expensive though. I had seriously looked at a custom, based on the Falcon for my new bike.

Epics are nice bikes, but I don't think they're on par with IF, Seven, Moots etc. The company doesn't have the mystique of the other bands mentioned. The frames arn't made in house....they're made in Europe....not saying thats bad because its not...just stating a fact. They're a smaller company, and i'm not sure of the extent of expertise they would have with matching custom geomety to your quircky body dimensions, if thats a factor.

I think you get a lot of bang for your buck with an Epic, a very good VALUE bike. I don't think you can class it akin to a Ti Crown Jewel thought. But it does have a maple leaf on the top tube *places hand against chest, looks towards the sky, starts humming "Oh Canada"*

Just my 2 cents :)
 
#20 ·
IF Crown Jewel Ti

I have owned a Serotta Legend and now own an Independent Fabrication Crown Jewel Ti and can't say enough about the bike and the company. The build of the frame is top notch and the ride is fantastic. The frame is light and gives a very comfortable ride, great climber. Dealing with Matt Bracken and the crew at IF is a wonderful experience, they know how to do it right, hell, the employees own the company, they better do it right. Anyway, give IF a call and ask for Matt, he will be glad to answer any question and set up a demo ride for you, even send you a bike to ride. Good luck.
 
#22 ·
speedwei said:
I see the Agilis is on sale at Excel. Are these still good these days? noticed i never did mentioned and consider Litespeed...

I test rode a Axiom and it felt really good. The only other Ti bike i rode before was a friend's Merlin Road (2001?). I just remember it felt pretty stable. This Axiom accelerate quickly and has a "springing"\snappy feel. Not sure if it is the little flex and spring action Ti frame has. Compare to my S-Works, it ain't bad of sprinter. The shop told me it is probably only a "6" on Seven's scale.

I'd like to have a bike I want to keep riding for a long time. Not too many way to upgrade....Kind of like my Turner XCE ('02), tho the new one saved a lot of weight, but it is still a great frame to ride. Hard to see spending thousands to upgrade. However, for a road bike, i'd like the frame to be sub-three lbs and still to be stiff and durable.

Roark are nice...Woody seems like a cool guy to work with. i'd still consider them.

I ride with a bunch of guys who are into spending big bucks on high end ti bikes.
they almost all ride independent fabrications ti crown jewels.
local high end bike shop sells merlins and IF. and the occasional seven and moots.

the new merlins are not like the old ones. fugly headsets and they dont come in that many sizes.

if you are going to keep it for a while, i would choose between seven, moots, IF, and kish. i would mostly choose based on what the local bike shops sells. they will keep you happy down the road with excellent service.
 
#24 ·
speedwei said:
Kish ($2100 frame only) - straight gauge....very rare, but somewhat local to me.
Kish will weld as nice as anyone, but not have the "name drop" factor.

I personally think that having the builder fit you is close to the best thing you can do for your ride. IMHO, that's the only truely "custom" way to do things.

In my case, I am having a local builder make me a bike (Rock Lobster) because he is local to me, fit me himself, saw me ride different bikes, etc. This made all the sense in the world to me.

For what it's worth, I'm coming off a "name drop" IF that I bought (primarily) because of the name.
 
#25 ·
I can see why it's so hard to choose

Where do you live? If you live in SoCal, gotta check out Bill Holland in the San Diego area. He's located next to Joe Bell's paint shop. I went through the same decision process you're going through about 2 years ago and went with Tom Kellog at Spectrum. I happened to be in the area on business and was able to squeze in a fitting. However, he did a remote fitting using pictures for a friend of mine and it came out spot on. His Super Ti frame & fork (your choice) and headset go for $3,200. My 56 tips the scales at 2.6 lbs. One of the cool Spectrum features is you design your paint scheme and he clear coats the whole bike except for the drive side chain stay. Most ti bikes look like my stainless appliances after my daughters have attacked them. My Spectrum always looks new.

The Sevens are sure nice. There's two guys on my team that are around 6'5 that have em and love em. That Kish that's posted sure looks cool. Never seen one before. Ti is a great privateers race material. Light, durabe and rides great.

Good luck
 
#26 ·
kajukembo said:
Where do you live? If you live in SoCal, gotta check out Bill Holland in the San Diego area. He's located next to Joe Bell's paint shop. I went through the same decision process you're going through about 2 years ago and went with Tom Kellog at Spectrum. I happened to be in the area on business and was able to squeze in a fitting. However, he did a remote fitting using pictures for a friend of mine and it came out spot on. His Super Ti frame & fork (your choice) and headset go for $3,200. My 56 tips the scales at 2.6 lbs. One of the cool Spectrum features is you design your paint scheme and he clear coats the whole bike except for the drive side chain stay. Most ti bikes look like my stainless appliances after my daughters have attacked them. My Spectrum always looks new.

The Sevens are sure nice. There's two guys on my team that are around 6'5 that have em and love em. That Kish that's posted sure looks cool. Never seen one before. Ti is a great privateers race material. Light, durabe and rides great.

Good luck
but if i lived in southern cali... the land of the endless sunny days, i wouldn't look for a ti bike. otoh, if i was in seattle...
 
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