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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    There is no cutout on this one. Not to mention it looks like it's higher in the middle. The man parts don't like that!
    I also had Specialized Phenom Expert. There are no high parts in the middle. But there were problems with numbness.

    Maybe I just need a flat saddle? Without a cutout?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Don't fear this. You may notice a little difference in handling, but you may not. Unless you do really stupid stuff, you won't have a problem.
    Ok. I'll find a shorter stem for testing.
    Thanks!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    Thanks!!!

    Today I moved the saddle forward 1 cm and ride an hour.
    The first 20 minutes i ride with a power of 80-100 watts, I thought that everything was fine. But as soon as I went with a power of 200+ watts, I again tried to move forward. .
    moving forward on the saddle is normal when working hard, did you get numbness on your old bike when you rode hard and moved forward?

    In addition, my hands pressed on the handlebar, they were not relaxed. I did not know where to remove them, so that it would be comfortable..
    It's a good idea to vary hand position, on the road we do this naturally but on a trainer we can get locked in one position for too long. Move your hands along the tops of the bars rest them on the hoods drop them into the drops from time to time and if you are up on the hoods use it as an excuse to stand up and stretch your back before you loosen your shoulders up again but t they don't need to be pressing into the bar try and relax your hands and focus on your legs and breathing.
    Perhaps, among other things, I needed to lower the saddle a little, tomorrow I will check this theory.
    But it seems to me that I need a shorter frame ... everything comes down to this.
    I wouldn't drop the saddle height, it will mess with your legs and could cause pain in your knees or elsewhere.

    You have bought an aero bike with a very short head tube which means that the angle of you back will be lower than on your old bike. This angle means you are putting more weight on your soft bits and not on your sit bones. You will need to get used to the new position but I would try a variety of saddles and perhaps you should look at a much shorter nose saddle.

    The Fizik Antares VS is a popular saddle but there are people you never get comfortable with it. Specialized Phenom Expert is very similar to the Fizik Antares VS. Maybe you need to try a new style and forget about the channel in the middle and go for a flat top very hard type of saddle you can slide forward on when you start hammering.
    Short nosed styles are popular among many aggressive drop riders. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...-review-50789/

    in the end I think you still need a good fit. Maybe save up some cash for a train holiday to go and get fitted. Good luck. BTW your English is really good!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    I wouldn't drop the saddle height, it will mess with your legs and could cause pain in your knees or elsewhere.
    This is not good advice, because kiwisimon does not know how high your saddle currently is.

    Hamfri-
    I highly recommend you measure your cycling inseam, set you saddle height with the .883 x inseam method, set you saddle set back using KOPS and THEN see what is comfortable or not. If you do not have a reasonable starting point you are just going to be chasing the problem around.


    I would also flip you stem over to bring the bar up after you've made the saddle changes. Just try it.



    You also keep talking about the Pinarello. Do you actually own a Pinarello? If not, how about seeing what is necessary to get your fit close on one bike before having discussions about a bike you don't even have?
    Get a better saddle: www.kontactbike.com

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kontact View Post
    This is not good advice, because Kiwisimon does not know how high your saddle currently is.
    Good point.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    Maybe I just need a flat saddle? Without a cutout?
    Get the Selle Anatomica X saddle with the cutout.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    The Fizik Antares VS is a popular saddle but there are people you never get comfortable with it. Specialized Phenom Expert is very similar to the Fizik Antares VS. Maybe you need to try a new style and forget about the channel in the middle and go for a flat top very hard type of saddle you can slide forward on when you start hammering.
    Short nosed styles are popular among many aggressive drop riders. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...-review-50789/
    Thank you all!

    This seems interesting to me.
    My distance between the sciatic bones is 120mm, so I think that Selle Italia Novus 145mm should be OK for me.
    And indeed, on the Fizik Antares VS the edges of the cut out caused me trouble. But it's only after 20 minutes.
    Should I buy Selle Italia Novus for testing? Or is it an extra waste of money?
    I do not have the opportunity to take this saddle from anyone, I can only buy it and return it to the store (Bike24)

    And of course, I'll try all the ways described by you to ease my problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
    You also keep talking about the Pinarello. Do you actually own a Pinarello? If not, how about seeing what is necessary to get your fit close on one bike before having discussions about a bike you don't even have?

    I do not have Pinarello. I wanted to sell my bike and buy Pinarello. There are several reasons. This is quite an old transmission, the inability to find a comfortable position on the bike, and the sliding of the saddle to the seat post. The latter - especially strongly affects my psyche, because on any pit I can collapse down together with the saddle.

    I used to have a bicycle with a different geometry. Olympia Ego Race (size M).
    Marco Garzi: OLYMPIA EGO
    There was another saddle (Selle Smp Extra, China Spezialized Romin). But as far as I can remember, the problems in finding the optimal and comfortable position were even at that time. But I do remember that it was a little better than now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post

    Hamfri-
    I highly recommend you measure your cycling inseam, set you saddle height with the .883 x inseam method, set you saddle set back using KOPS and THEN see what is comfortable or not. If you do not have a reasonable starting point you are just going to be chasing the problem around.
    I would also flip you stem over to bring the bar up after you've made the saddle changes. Just try it.
    I'll try to do it the way you recommended. Thank you!

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    Thank you all!

    This seems interesting to me.
    My distance between the sciatic bones is 120mm, so I think that Selle Italia Novus 145mm should be OK for me.
    No. Selle Anatomica X!!!! Just get it. You won't go wrong!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  8. #33
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    Hamfri: no one can tell you what is the best saddle for you except you. People spend months trying to find the perfect saddle and once they do they very rarely change. I still ride flat hard saddles with no padding which have fit me fine for over 15 yrs but just last year I switched to a Specialized saddle as I am getting back into some racing and find the shorter saddle more comfortable for a more aggressive position. I would suggest first you get the seat tube and seat clamping problem sorted out. I would then look at saddles you think you may want and buy second hand ones till you find the shape that suits but you are also going to have to work on your flexibility and core strength to ride a low head tube racing frame with your long limbs and short torso. Take your time and keep asking questions.
    Last edited by kiwisimon; 02-03-2018 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    I would suggest first you get the seat tube and seat clamping problem sorted out. I would then look at saddles you think you may want and buy second hand ones till you find the shape that suits but you are also going to have to work on your flexibility and core strength to ride a low head tube racing frame with your long limbs and short torso. Take your time and keep asking questions.
    The problem of clamping the saddle irritates me a long time ago. On any pit, I can move down along with the saddle. This not normal. I would even say that this is the main reason I sell a bicycle. Because it's hard, to knowing, that you can go down at any time.
    I used paste for carbon, but its effect is not long. Now I try to clamp the mount with an effort of 4-5 Nm. With admissible 6.5.

    So, I still have not found my saddle, unfortunately ...
    By the way, I wanted to buy the Specialized Power, but on the sale there was a sudden appearance of Phenom, who, as I thought, looks very much like Power. And I bought Phenom. And it did not change anything.

    Maybe it makes sense to spend money on buying different saddles to understand which one suits me?

    But first i need to follow your recommendations for the correct of the position on the bike.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    I need to bring my knees back to normal using the KOPS method.
    KOPS is not a reliable way to fit. Try the following 2 links instead.
    The Myth of K.O.P.S.
    SEAT SET BACK: for road bikes - The Steve Hogg Bike Fitting Website

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    KOPS is not a reliable way to fit. Try the following 2 links instead.
    The Myth of K.O.P.S.
    SEAT SET BACK: for road bikes - The Steve Hogg Bike Fitting Website
    I think as a baseline there is nothing wrong with it. It has worked for hundreds of thousands of cyclists but it's not the be all and end all. You are swinging the pendulum too far the other way. It is a reliable base line to start at.
    Quote Originally Posted by KeithBonrager
    Still, it is easy to see how the KOPS method can get by. It usually puts the rider in the range of correct fit
    Did you miss the part where he can't get a fitting?

    KB and SH were selling something but it's not how to figure out how to self fit to a bicycle frame. KB was selling his frames and fitting and SB is selling his services, neither of which are available through Pink Floyd. cheers.
    What do you suggest? You know, like practical advice.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    The problem of clamping the saddle irritates me a long time ago.
    Try putting carbon paste on both sides of a strip of paper, wrapping it around the post and inserting them together to act as a shim. If that isn't enough, a strip of beer can.
    Get a better saddle: www.kontactbike.com

  13. #38
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    I now rode 1 hour on the trainer.
    I lowered the saddle in advance by 1 cm (now 75.5cm). Measured inseam, it turned out 86cm on average. I raised the saddle according to the formula Inseam * 0.883 . I stepped on the pedal with heel, checking if leg was straight. The leg was straight, but I think that it would be possible to lower the saddle a little more.

    And .... in the end nothing helped. I again sat on the saddle as on needles.

    Can it really be the problem in the saddle? In addition, to the saddle height, I did not change anything, because if I start to change everything at once, I do not understand at what stage would supposedly become comfortable sat on the bike.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    I now rode 1 hour on the trainer.
    I lowered the saddle in advance by 1 cm (now 75.5cm). Measured inseam, it turned out 86cm on average. I raised the saddle according to the formula Inseam * 0.883 . I stepped on the pedal with heel, checking if leg was straight. The leg was straight, but I think that it would be possible to lower the saddle a little more.

    And .... in the end nothing helped. I again sat on the saddle as on needles.

    Can it really be the problem in the saddle? In addition, to the saddle height, I did not change anything, because if I start to change everything at once, I do not understand at what stage would supposedly become comfortable sat on the bike.
    okay so now we have correct saddle height. Good. Is your saddle level or a little nose up or down?
    How was your KOPS? And how did your hands feel?
    So it may just be (a) bad saddle for your body type or (b) you need to give your body a rest for a day or two. (c) both of the above.
    I would stay away from the bike for a day or two. Take it easy for a few days and let the changes become your new normal. What was the last saddle you felt good and happy on?

    keep smiling !

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Is your saddle level or a little nose up or down?
    How was your KOPS? And how did your hands feel?
    So it may just be (a) bad saddle for your body type or (b) you need to give your body a rest for a day or two. (c) both of the above.
    I would stay away from the bike for a day or two. Take it easy for a few days and let the changes become your new normal. What was the last saddle you felt good and happy on?

    keep smiling !
    It's difficult to say, up nose or down. Because it seems that it is perfectly flat. But if like that, then nose look little up.

    I did not check the KOPS because I was trying to understand my feelings.
    But my hands tensed, and I still stretch to the levers of the switches.

    I do not know why this happens, but as soon as I sit on the saddle, I do not feel any comfort.

    You are right, most likely, I need to rest. Thank you!

    p.s. The last saddle, with which I could ride for a relatively long time and without pain - was Selle SMP Extra. But it was sold with my old bicycle ...

    p.s.s. Tell me when I'm sitting on the saddle and I reach to the pedal my heel (pedal on 6 hours). Does the leg have to be completely straight?
    Last edited by Hamfri; 02-03-2018 at 06:23 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamfri View Post
    It's difficult to say, up nose or down. Because it seems that it is perfectly flat. But if like that, then nose look little up.
    a little up is better than down.

    The last saddle, with which I could ride for a relatively long time and without pain - was Selle SMP Extra. But it was sold with my old bicycle ...
    Order another one. You know it works and it is a good choice for this bike. It's a short saddle with a good cutaway so there should be no pressure on your soft bits.
    You are right, most likely, I need to rest. Thank you!
    you can rest waiting for your new comfortable saddle. That will give your painful bits a chance to recover. Also a mental rest from the stress. Get out and get some sun.

    Tell me when I'm sitting on the saddle and I reach to the pedal my heel (pedal on 6 hours). Does the leg have to be completely straight?
    It should be straight and slightly bent when clipped into the pedal, but the best thing to check is that your hips aren't rocking when you pedal. If they rock your seat is still too high.
    https://blog.bikefit.com/how-to-fit-a-road-bicycle/


    Finally make sure that when your bike is on the trainer your front wheel is on the same level as your Directo base.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Stack vs reach: please help me size-knee-straight-.jpg  

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    I think as a baseline there is nothing wrong with it. It has worked for hundreds of thousands of cyclists but it's not the be all and end all. You are swinging the pendulum too far the other way. It is a reliable base line to start at.


    Did you miss the part where he can't get a fitting?

    KB and SH were selling something but it's not how to figure out how to self fit to a bicycle frame. KB was selling his frames and fitting and SB is selling his services, neither of which are available through Pink Floyd. cheers.
    What do you suggest? You know, like practical advice.
    We all have to start somewhere and it may work for hundreds of thousands of cyclists as a starting point and possibly the final adjustment if the rider happened to have the particular physical proportions by chance. There is a lot more to good bike fit than KOPS and that's what I'm saying.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    We all have to start somewhere and it may work for hundreds of thousands of cyclists as a starting point and possibly the final adjustment if the rider happened to have the particular physical proportions by chance. There is a lot more to good bike fit than KOPS and that's what I'm saying.
    Propose a helpful alternative for someone fitting themselves at home.
    Last edited by Kontact; 02-03-2018 at 03:29 PM.
    Get a better saddle: www.kontactbike.com

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
    No, that's not Blah blah blah ablh lahb balhablha.
    What are you trying to win here? An argument on the internet? Your last post adds nothing to this thread except dragging down to an off topic "did too", "did not" whirlpool. Maybe it's just the way you are but seriously why not just let people state an opinion and leave it at that. People can change the way they state things, nothing is set in stone. You are passionate but in text on a screen it's hard to finesse strong ideas without appearing like a something unpleasant. Others may enjoy the interaction but I find it boorish.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    What are you trying to win here? An argument on the internet? Your last post adds nothing to this thread except dragging down to an off topic "did too", "did not" whirlpool. Maybe it's just the way you are but seriously why not just let people state an opinion and leave it at that. People can change the way they state things, nothing is set in stone. You are passionate but in text on a screen it's hard to finesse strong ideas without appearing like a something unpleasant. Others may enjoy the interaction but I find it boorish.
    The reason why he does what he does has been explained in the following link.

    Method is something that works every time when followed step by step. Here is an example of Shimano rear derailleur adjusting method. The most KOPS can be called is a "suggestion" on starting point of fit.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    What are you trying to win here? An argument on the internet? Your last post adds nothing to this thread except dragging down to an off topic "did too", "did not" whirlpool. Maybe it's just the way you are but seriously why not just let people state an opinion and leave it at that. People can change the way they state things, nothing is set in stone. You are passionate but in text on a screen it's hard to finesse strong ideas without appearing like a something unpleasant. Others may enjoy the interaction but I find it boorish.
    Largely because bvber is trolling, and I get tired of people with nothing to contribute trying to wreck threads thar are actually focused on providing someone with help.

    But you are entirely correct, he is best ignored and my response was unnecessary. My apologies.
    Get a better saddle: www.kontactbike.com

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    The most KOPS can be called is a "suggestion" on starting point of fit.
    And what is your helpful alternative for a guy with no access to a professional fit?

    You made your point elsewhere, why bother trying to win something that is at best an argument between two opinions both of which are based on two facts? Who gains anything from it other than the two protagonists apparently injured egos although neither of you is factually wrong?
    Happy Sunday folks.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    And what is your helpful alternative for a guy with no access to a professional fit?
    https://youtu.be/SZhWVZq2qUc?t=539

  24. #49
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    ......

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    Hello.
    I will be terse.
    In one of the reviews (10 best saddles) I read about the manufacturer Fabric.
    Fabric Scoop Shallow Elite saddle was in the my city for only 37 eur.
    I bought it yesterday, today I went for a ride.
    When I touched it with my hands, it seemed to me a little softer than Fizik and Specialized. But I think it can be attributed to the saddle of medium stiffness. Although this is all relative.
    When I sat down, I immediately felt comfortable. When I sat down on saddle, I immediately felt comfortable. Previous pain was not. Everything was fine.
    I ride 20 minutes very slowly (60-80 watts), and there was no problem. BUT! I also reached for the handlebar, although I left exactly the same height of the saddle. But the saddle rails were in the middle position (I thought they were longer, but it was not so). And sometimes there was numbness, but quickly disappeared. When I started pedaling more than 200 watts (15 minutes), I just moved forward, and it was better.
    I'll try the next time to move the saddle forward, but I do not think it will save me from the desire to sit closer.


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