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  1. #1
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    Stainless Steel frame choice?

    I'm thinking about a new frame and have just started researching SS. I'm thinking seamless, so that leaves me with Xcr or 931. I've heard that the rolled tubes are not very round, not that it makes much difference.

    I'm thinking I would just go with Columbus and have three brands on my short list.

    Anderson has a nice lugged frame and I love lugs.

    Independent Fab, I have always wanted one. It is tig welded.

    Pegoretti, who doesn't want a work of art. Also tig welded, but its Italian.

    Maybe throw in Tommasini. I have had a Sintesi and a Carbo Light.

    I have to sell some stuff to buy a new frame so I have some to think about it. I also like fillet brazed so I'm sure there are other choices. Need help, too many choices.

  2. #2
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    I like carbon but, if Pegoretti is on your list for anything then that's the direction I would go in. He won't be making bikes forever and he is very skilled. Waterford is another. Heck, any builder on your list would do a credible job. Other than rust protection, I'm not sure what stainless will provide that steel or Ti won't. I doubt that I will ever go back to metal after owning a good carbon bike. If I do, it will probably be aluminum.

  3. #3
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    Also check out Firefly, Carl Strong, Dave Kirk, Cyfac and Casati.

  4. #4
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    I did fall in love with a Casati Championissmo at Bicycle Johns in Burbank. I have also looked at Strong and I do like Kirk's work. I think I looked at Waterfords also. Way too many good bikes.

  5. #5
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    You don't mention price. I have read good things about Ellis but the stainless frame is expensive.

  6. #6
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    Thanks Skepticman, that Casati Inox looks great. I like the cable stops on the head tube and the hidden cables is an extra bonus. I have now placed it above the IF.

    I saw a few in stock Pegoretti's at $4300. That is about as high as I will go. I have found a few frames in the low 3000's.

  7. #7
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    Scott Quiring, he'll take care of you.

  8. #8
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    Legend Ventoux Legend factory

  9. #9
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    Kelly Bedford at kbedfordcustoms.com

  10. #10
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    If I had the $, I'd go for the BB30 Cinelli XCr

    Cinelli XCr 2012 Frameset Road Bikes/Bicycles

  11. #11
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    Rolled tubes are just as round as seamless tubes. Realize too that rolled tubes were also lugged, you can't lug a tube that isn't round.

    Generally seamless is better because it's stronger due to the lack of the weld which could fail, but it cost more, however Tange made a superior seamed tubeset called Infinity that rivaled many high end seamless tubesets, and the quality of the welding Tange did never resulted in a seam or weld failure, plus they were able to make the weld completely disappear so you wouldn't know it was there under the paint...assuming whoever painted it did a decent job. I did see one Tange Infinity that the bicycle manufacture painted it too thin on underside of the down tube and you could see a lighter line running down the length of the tube, but you couldn't feel it and you couldn't see it unless you looked.

    So if you like the Soma or the Velo Orange steel bikes using the Tange Infinity don't be scared of it. Their using that tubeset because it cost less but it's very strong. But the cost factor for seamless lugged steel bikes cost more and the average person who wants lugged may not want to spend another $500 to get seamless...and they wouldn't know the difference anyway!!
    Last edited by froze; 12-18-2012 at 01:48 PM.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk98yvozq1g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk63...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=p92Stnnigjs
    "They don't do things that way anymore. This is the Age of Science Know-How, electronal marvels."

  12. #12
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    I was told that when 953 is placed in a lathe its not as round as Xcr.

    I wonder if 953 is butted before its rolled and welded?

    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    Rolled tubes are just as round as seamless tubes. Realize too that rolled tubes were also lugged, you can't lug a tube that isn't round.

    Generally seamless is better because it's stronger due to the lack of the weld which could fail, but it cost more, however Tange made a superior seamed tubeset called Infinity that rivaled many high end seamless tubesets, and the quality of the welding Tange did never resulted in a seam or weld failure, plus they were able to make the weld completely disappear so you wouldn't know it was there under the paint...assuming whoever painted it did a decent job. I did see one Tange Infinity that the bicycle manufacture painted it too thin on underside of the down tube and you could see a lighter line running down the length of the tube, but you couldn't feel it and you couldn't see it unless you looked.

    So if you like the Soma or the Velo Orange steel bikes using the Tange Infinity don't be scared of it. Their using that tubeset because it cost less but it's very strong. But the cost factor for seamless lugged steel bikes cost more and the average person who wants lugged may not want to spend another $500 to get seamless...and they wouldn't know the difference anyway!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by farva View Post
    If I had the $, I'd go for the BB30 Cinelli XCr

    Cinelli XCr 2012 Frameset Road Bikes/Bicycles
    At Cinelli.IT they show the cable stops on the head tube and a mostly painted frame. All the other web site show the frame polished and down tube bosses. At 3.15 pounds its light.

  14. #14
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    Hey, while you are listing choices, don't forget Waterford.

    I like Anderson's work. His Friday Night Lights posts make me swoon.
    A good habit is as hard to break as a bad one..

  15. #15
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    Fondriest and Chris King both have really zooty stainless frames. You might as well get something different. Both are handmade and you'd have either a USA or Italian frame - I'd go with the Fondriest with Record 11 and handbuilt wheels with Record hubs from Sugar Wheelworks in Portland.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by refund!? View Post
    Fondriest and Chris King both have really zooty stainless frames. You might as well get something different. Both are handmade and you'd have either a USA or Italian frame - I'd go with the Fondriest with Record 11 and handbuilt wheels with Record hubs from Sugar Wheelworks in Portland.
    Isn't Fondriest now Chinese?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtompilot View Post
    I was told that when 953 is placed in a lathe its not as round as Xcr.

    I wonder if 953 is butted before its rolled and welded?
    Not sure in what order they do make the tube set, I would think it's rolled and welded first then butted but I could be wrong. Regardless of which way it's done it is just as round, these are done on precision machines, not some machine made in the early 1900's! Like I said, a tube has to perfectly round to fit into a lug, and lugs are used on both seam and seamless tube sets. Whoever told you that seamed tubes are not round is out to lunch.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk98yvozq1g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk63...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=p92Stnnigjs
    "They don't do things that way anymore. This is the Age of Science Know-How, electronal marvels."

  18. #18
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    Dave Wages @ Ellis cycle
    Makes a very nice S?S bike!

    Good guy as well
    It all comes down to rule 5!!

  19. #19
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    Since you've already decided on stainless steel as a material -- a decision which some would argue is still premature -- I would suggest now not worrying about the differences between Xcr & 931 but instead concentrate on which framebuilder you want to have make your bike. Let Mr. Wages or Mr. Pegoretti et al worry about Xcr vs 931 so they can build you the best bike possible. Or, better yet, develop a relationship with Mr. Wages or Mr. Pegoretti et al so they can explain to you why they would choose Xcr vs 931 for the bike they'd build for you.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    Since you've already decided on stainless steel as a material -- a decision which some would argue is still premature -- I would suggest now not worrying about the differences between Xcr & 931 but instead concentrate on which framebuilder you want to have make your bike. Let Mr. Wages or Mr. Pegoretti et al worry about Xcr vs 931 so they can build you the best bike possible. Or, better yet, develop a relationship with Mr. Wages or Mr. Pegoretti et al so they can explain to you why they would choose Xcr vs 931 for the bike they'd build for you.
    I'd take a Tommasini X-Fire.
    Ordered and Fitted for my Custom DEAN Titanium frame on Sept 17th, 2008. Finally got it in Oct, 2010!!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    Since you've already decided on stainless steel as a material -- a decision which some would argue is still premature -- I would suggest now not worrying about the differences between Xcr & 931 but instead concentrate on which framebuilder you want to have make your bike. Let Mr. Wages or Mr. Pegoretti et al worry about Xcr vs 931 so they can build you the best bike possible. Or, better yet, develop a relationship with Mr. Wages or Mr. Pegoretti et al so they can explain to you why they would choose Xcr vs 931 for the bike they'd build for you.
    This is very good advice!
    It all comes down to rule 5!!

  22. #22
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    For the record, the 953 seam is so homogenous the tubes are virtually seamless. Reynolds subjected 953 round tubes of various diameters and wall thickness to "flattening" tests (from round to oval of less than 70% of the original diameter) without any sign of cracking along the tube.

    Here is a table comparing physical characteristics of 953, 931, XCr, and KVA MS2. They all have more than adequate yield strength, UTS, and elongation to build a frame that will last a lifetime. At this year's NAHBS in Sacramento, several builders experienced with 953 showed new frames built using MS2. Among them were Dave Anderson, Dave Wages, and Sam Whittingham.

    Last edited by Scooper; 01-03-2013 at 06:41 PM. Reason: graphic correction
    -Stan
    my bikes

  23. #23
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    If you go with the Casati call Racescene in the UK. I live in the US and ordered a custom Laser (Zero HTS) from them last year and saved a bunch over all the US dealers. The frame took about 2 months, Casati is easy to work with, will paint any color. Good luck.

  24. #24
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    Thanks for all the replies.

    I've talked to several dealers. Bicycle Johns in Burbank carries Pegoretti, Cinelli, and Casati.

    International Pro Bike bike shop deals Casati and Tommasini. I'm going to visit them next week.

    Interesting that Scott Quiring sells his Xcr frame for $1800 and most other stainless frames are mid $3000 and up.

  25. #25
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    Cinelli. If you go to Bicycle John's, ask Don why Cinelli is really the most obvious choice over other stainless frame builders.

    One main reason: Columbus owns Cinelli.

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