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  1. #1
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    Thoughts on IBIS Silk Carbon..........

    And the soon to be released Silk Carbon SL at under 900g.

    Both the Australasian magazine 'Ride' and the UK's 'Cycling Plus' gave it a good write up(9/10). I gather the SL will be offered at the same price and in colours (nude, racing green and red).

    Anyone own one or suggest alternative in similar price bracket. I have also been thinking about a Scott CR1 Pro, but not sure if they're available as a frameset.

    DannyBoy

    http://www.ibiscycles.com/road/
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thoughts on IBIS Silk Carbon..........-silk_2.jpg   Thoughts on IBIS Silk Carbon..........-silk_3.jpg  

  2. #2
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    I know quite a few people that ride / race them and really like them. I had a Scott CR1 that had a warranty issue and the replacement is now on ebay. I think I am going to be getting one of the IBIS sl's. It will be interesting to see the ride difference. In the meantime I have been riding an older E5 S-Works which is not bad at all.

  3. #3
    mhk
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    looks familiar. . .

    that looks like a pedal force frame. er, maybe I saw a pic of a pedal force frame to which some crafty--and otherwise embarrassed by his generic frame-- gent had applied Ibis stickers.

    I think it's the latter. nice bike.

  4. #4
    eminence grease
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    My thoughts - it's a Taiwanese production frame labeled with a storied name in order to wring what little there is left in a moribund brand.

    Not bad looking though.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    My thoughts - it's a Taiwanese production frame labeled with a storied name in order to wring what little there is left in a moribund brand.

    Not bad looking though.
    I don't think it's like that at all. The new stuff coming from Ibis is pretty nice. I own a new Carbon Mojo and a Silk and am seriously thinking of a Tranny even though I haven't ridden one yet. It's not the company that went Bankrupt after Scot sold it. It's Scot and some new guys. Very cool people.

  6. #6
    eminence grease
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdold
    I don't think it's like that at all. The new stuff coming from Ibis is pretty nice. I own a new Carbon Mojo and a Silk and am seriously thinking of a Tranny even though I haven't ridden one yet. It's not the company that went Bankrupt after Scot sold it. It's Scot and some new guys. Very cool people.
    It's nice that they are cool people. But they're simply marketing a bike from a generic carbon factory and hoping people will be bitten by the glorious Ibis reputation.

    Just like Scott Bicycles and others. Not saying that it's bad - everyone should be able to make a buck, especially off of a brand they created. It's just disappointing to me because I thought it meant they were back in the bike building business.

    And since the OP asked for thoughts, I gave mine.
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  7. #7
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    The original Ibis Silk Carbon sure looks like a Pedal Force QS2. The Ibis people claim that its made using the same mold but different layup. Impossible to tell without sawing one of each apart and being a composites expert. Even if it's identical to a QS2, that's not so bad- the QS2 is a pretty nice riding frame. If they paid the company extra to ensure better finish and QA, that'd be worth the extra $$.

    The Ibis Silk SL looks different from the QS2. I have not seen another carbon frame that looks like it. The Mojo doesn't look like any other carbon MTB frame I have seen. The Tranny is a unique new idea- it may or may not be a good idea, but it's new and different. I'd give Ibis credit for being a "real" bike producer. Yes, they use contract Taiwanese carbon manufacturers, but that's what essentially all bike makers do- its where the good carbon mass production expertise is these days.

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    Here's some video of Scot describing the new stuff, not a lot of info on the Silk though.
    http://content.mtbr.com//TRD_14_318crx.aspx

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    My thoughts - it's a Taiwanese production frame labeled with a storied name in order to wring what little there is left in a moribund brand.

    Not bad looking though.
    are you saying they bought a ready made frame and placed their sticker on or designed a frame and had the taiwanese build it?

  10. #10
    eminence grease
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    are you saying they bought a ready made frame and placed their sticker on or designed a frame and had the taiwanese build it?
    It appears to me that the Silk Road came out of the same mold as a 1/2 dozen other frames, most notably those by Pedal Force. The stuff they were showing at Interbike is either their design concept MFG'd by some Taiwanese outfit or something new designed and built by some Taiwanese outfit. Who knows for sure on that?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    It appears to me that the Silk Road came out of the same mold as a 1/2 dozen other frames, most notably those by Pedal Force. The stuff they were showing at Interbike is either their design concept MFG'd by some Taiwanese outfit or something new designed and built by some Taiwanese outfit. Who knows for sure on that?
    easy: compare geometries. if they are the same, it's the same mold. if not, there is a different hand in the making.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    My thoughts - it's a Taiwanese production frame labeled with a storied name in order to wring what little there is left in a moribund brand.

    Not bad looking though.

    Isn't that the story of many of the CF bikes out there now? All the good (in my opinion) Italian brands with Asian carbon fiber frames, are nothing more than the "new" Ibis. I really wanted the Ibis road bike back when Ibis was a real company and their mountain bikes had the "Hand Job" cable hangars brazed onto the frame. Heck, even the old Brodies had cool "noodles" for the cables to run through! Then again, all of that was before V-brakes, which were before disc brakes, and so on.

    BikesDirect is doing a good job of bringing back "Vintage" names like Motobecane, Mercier, Windsor... etc, even though the name is nothing of what they used to be. As a matter of fact, Quattro Assi used to be cool, and now their carbon bikes are the same as everything else out of Asia. Not bad, by any means, but there's nothing really different about it.

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    What I dont understand is the shop owner where I hang out can ride the same frame, but different size of course, as his wife. He is clearly over 200 pounds in weight while his wife is maybe 130 pounds. Neither are racer types but I would think bikes would handle different between them. I will be looking into the Ibis more before I buy one. What makes them cheaper than others? I sure don't know about some of the "giant" companies' race budgets, but those frame are also made in China. Need to redo the lay up process of the carbon? China can do it. Carbon bikes are not new. Wish I still had my 1990 Kestral just for nostalgia reasons. Alot does go into the weaves used and how they are glued together, even in the same molds. But China can do it.Are small and large carbon frames built different methods? Anyway I rode one just around the parking lot at a dealer I know and have the option of taking 2 different ones out for longer rides. Guess I just wait a while for any durability issues. I plan on buying about 12 - 12 months from know.
    and the road becomes my bride. Where I ride my bike is home

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    Their mountain bikes are anything but 'moribund'.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979
    The original Ibis Silk Carbon sure looks like a Pedal Force QS2. The Ibis people claim that its made using the same mold but different layup.
    Where do they make this claim? The geometries are similar, but not the same between the bikes correct?

    I think all of this ibis/ PF talk is an urban legend, and it comes from a post by "BackintheSaddle" where he put Ibis decals on a PF bike.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    But they're simply marketing a bike from a generic carbon factory and hoping people will be bitten by the glorious Ibis reputation.
    What other bike is there with this same geometry?

    Also can you please point me somewhere to show that this is in fact a generic frame, and not a frame that Ibis had control over, and gave input into the design?

    It just seems the rumor mill is alive and well, and I am just trying to differentiate between the BS around here and the facts.

  17. #17
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    I think it is because the Pedal Force RS and this frame are very similar looking at the seat tube/top tube junction etc. As someone else pointed out identical geometries point to same mold, while layup details may differ (grade of CF etc). Weight is generally a tip on CF grade if no specifics are available (lower modulus CF requiring more layers). Like anything else, it takes some work to determine the details.

  18. #18
    eminence grease
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestreljr
    What other bike is there with this same geometry?

    Also can you please point me somewhere to show that this is in fact a generic frame, and not a frame that Ibis had control over, and gave input into the design?

    It just seems the rumor mill is alive and well, and I am just trying to differentiate between the BS around here and the facts.

    My point is far more suble than that.

    Ibis had a very desireable reputation for building cool bikes back in the day.

    Then they went out of business and disappeared.

    Now they're back with a bike that is produced somewhere out of country but is labeled with their famous brand. To me, that feels like a marketing ploy. And if I am going to buy a bike that's a marketing ploy, I have dozens to choose from, there is nothing special about an Ibis in this case. Maybe they had 100% design control over it, maybe they just picked from a catalogue, it doesn't matter to me and I will never know for sure. I have this picky thing about owning bikes that are made by the people doing the selling and when Ibis came back, I thought they were bringing something new to the table. I have nothing against them making money from a brand they developed. It's a free market afterall.

    But that's just me, you want one - go buy it and enjoy.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    I think it is because the Pedal Force RS and this frame are very similar looking at the seat tube/top tube junction etc. As someone else pointed out identical geometries point to same mold, while layup details may differ (grade of CF etc). Weight is generally a tip on CF grade if no specifics are available (lower modulus CF requiring more layers). Like anything else, it takes some work to determine the details.
    What are you talking about? They don't look the same, at least no more the same then any other naked carbon road bike!! The geometries are NOT the same.

    Do you not see the weird tube like protrusion at seat tube/top tube junction on the PF build, that is NOT there on the Ibis?

    PEDAL FORCE RS


    IBIS SILK SL


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    I have this picky thing about owning bikes that are made by the people doing the selling and when Ibis came back, I thought they were bringing something new to the table. I have nothing against them making money from a brand they developed.
    Gotcha- that makes sense, but as you say, it certainly limits some options.

  21. #21
    eminence grease
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestreljr
    Gotcha- that makes sense, but as you say, it certainly limits some options.
    Truth be told, when I heard they were coming back I anticipated that they were going to be offering their titanium masterpieces once again.

    That was the source of my disappointment.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestreljr
    Where do they make this claim? The geometries are similar, but not the same between the bikes correct?

    I think all of this ibis/ PF talk is an urban legend,
    The listed geometries of the PedalForce QS2 and the original Silk are nearly identical. I attribute the very small differences to measuring error. The frames also look identical. I have a QS2 and have seen a number of Silks (they're popular in Santa Cruz, near where I live) and had a chance to examine them up close. The weights are also very similar.

    The claim that a different layup was used was on a different board and by someone who sounded like they were connected with Ibis. They didn't state that as a fact, so I don't know for sure. And as I pointed out above it'd be impossible to prove or disprove. But considering that the molds are by far the most expensive part of a carbon bike production setup, I could see it being done. It's comparatively easy to change the layup schedule or amount of wetting or epoxy or type of weave.

    If you think that manufacturers who use offshore contract houses to make the bikes are somehow inferior and not worth purchasing from, you will limit yourself to only a small handful of bikes. Essentially everyone contracts out their carbon manufacturing. Even Trek does it for most of their models. Almost all the carbon is done in Taiwan or China.

    The model now is to design the bike and contract out the manufacture. But "contract out" can vary widely, anywhere to slapping your label on something that's only been changed a bit, to doing all the R&D, failure analysis, etc., specing the frames exactly, showing the manufacturer how to make them to spec, and then getting an "exclusive" written into the contract so your frames aren't on the same line as someone else's. That's to try to prevent your ideas from appearing on someone else's bikes.

    Contract manufacturing is how lot of things are made- computer chips, car parts, consumer electronics, etc. As long as the people and proceses are good, it doesn't make any difference if the paychecks that the designer and the line workers get have the same signatures on them or different ones.

    Of course if you feel that your bike has to be made by the guy who designed it, or in the same building, then there's some custom frame makers who do some nice work. But it'll cost more.

  23. #23
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    yes, I mean the original Silk. There's nothing wrong with this model of manufacturing--but there is some concern that a lot of carbon houses are getting in the business without a ton of expertise in cycling. There has been a big move to mainland china for this. Quality control is an issue (slowtwitch has a long account on their site about this).

    The only thing that bothers me is the lack of transparency. There's some companies (like a certain British one) that makes lots of claims about all the research that went into their frame (like a certain TT frame) when in fact it's a generic one from XDS carbon in Shenzen. Seriously how many places has their x-B14 frame turned up: (http://www.xds-carbon.com/products.a...&class_id=17#). Putting a sticker on it and raising the price by $1,000 isn't the best thing in the world for consumers...

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