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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    I wouldn't mind adding a Reynolds 953 frame as my next build, although that means getting murdered in my sleep by the wife.
    Now this is a conversation I'd like to hear the opinions on. Why Ti or why Stainless one over the other considering same price point pretty much??



    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    I have Ti bikes and they ride well
    As I said, I have a Ti bike that really does not ride that well, Not in that sweet magic sense some/most do. A blade TT, it is more about the shapes of the 'tubes' and the build.

    Back when I had two or three Ti bike at a time, I also had a Fuji Team Issue Scandium Mercury bike. It road just as well as as the Saber, Classic and Appalachian I had at the same time. I also had a Q-Carbon Klein in 2012 I picked up used that had an incredible road feel/quality as nice as the Ti bikes I have owned... And it would only fit 23mm tires FWIW.
    Last edited by robt57; 11-04-2015 at 07:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    You did say it twice, so I feel obliged to correct it... it's a medium.
    And the plural of medium

    AND

    an intervening substance/intervening agency, means, or instrument by which something is conveyed or accomplished:


    Is my use non standard or something?


    See what happens when you quit High School the 2nd week of 10th grade kids!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt57 View Post
    And the plural of medium

    AND

    an intervening substance/intervening agency, means, or instrument by which something is conveyed or accomplished:


    Is my use non standard or something?


    See what happens when you quit High School the 2nd week of 10th grade kids!
    So your definition is of medium, the plural of which is media. Titanium is a medium, frame materials are media.
    “Bicycling has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world.” - Susan B. Anthony 1896
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    "White personifies this generation's obsession with superficiality, one in which a carefully curated social media post is more important than the actual ride" - Daimeon Shanks
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    So your definition is of medium, the plural of which is media. Titanium is a medium, frame materials are media.
    Noted, and thank you. I'd rather be correct in use certainly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt57 View Post
    Now this is a conversation I'd like to hear the opinions on. Why Ti or why Stainless one over the other considering same price point pretty much??.
    I'm a little old school. For me, its aesthetics, I like bare Ti or steel frames and TIG welds/flanged brazed joints. IMHO, stainless does not make a great frame material due to its mechanical properties especially when compared to some of the great steel frames that are available today. A great frame should be a work of art-craftsmanship, the dropouts should not look like drilled pipe plugs, the badge should show the makers pride.. If it's ugly,, pass it up,, life's too short to ride an ugly bike.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by n2deep View Post
    I'm a little old school. For me, its aesthetics, I like bare Ti or steel frames and TIG welds/flanged brazed joints. IMHO, stainless does not make a great frame material due to its mechanical properties especially when compared to some of the great steel frames that are available today. A great frame should be a work of art-craftsmanship, the dropouts should not look like drilled pipe plugs, the badge should show the makers pride.. If it's ugly,, pass it up,, life's too short to ride an ugly bike.
    Yeah but I almost bought this frame because it isn't ugly at all...



    Soma Feed: Soma Smoothie SS: Our Stainless Steel Road Frame All Built Up
    “Bicycling has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world.” - Susan B. Anthony 1896
    "Cycling and ethical bankruptcy have always gone together." - Bike Snob NYC
    "White personifies this generation's obsession with superficiality, one in which a carefully curated social media post is more important than the actual ride" - Daimeon Shanks
    "I haven't %^&* like that since I was an altar boy" Hank Moody

  7. #32
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    I like the extra piece of bar tape between the wall and the new white tape job. ;0 Like two more minutes of clean is going to make a difference.

    But for me in the aesthetics dept that Soma although pretty, looks like a brighter Ti bike. Absolutely cool if one likes the look. I tired of the monochomosis and yearned for color beyond tape tires and saddles after a few years. ;)

    After several Ti bikes for 5 years and doing the winter scotchbrite citrus rejuving rituals... I have to say I prefer the powder coating. The finish condition on my 2000 Strong is just hard to believe for 12 years as an every day bike. I actually considered going with wet paint when I had it made thinking the powder coat would add weight. derp!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    Yeah but I almost bought this frame because it isn't ugly at all...



    Soma Feed: Soma Smoothie SS: Our Stainless Steel Road Frame All Built Up
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  8. #33
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    The regular (unpolished) Ti finish is pretty easy to maintain, although like you say you have to like the color grey. I'm ok with a non-flashy bike, if you want to stand out just get some neon cycling gear.
    “Bicycling has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world.” - Susan B. Anthony 1896
    "Cycling and ethical bankruptcy have always gone together." - Bike Snob NYC
    "White personifies this generation's obsession with superficiality, one in which a carefully curated social media post is more important than the actual ride" - Daimeon Shanks
    "I haven't %^&* like that since I was an altar boy" Hank Moody

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    The regular (unpolished) Ti finish is pretty easy to maintain, although like you say you have to like the color grey. I'm ok with a non-flashy bike, if you want to stand out just get some neon cycling gear.
    I never avoided rain riding and found the brushed Ti got pretty dark/danky/dirty. But it is rewarding if you get new decals and do the cleaning rutual. Bike looks new easily, well not easily and a dirty job. The Powder coat is really easy though... ;)

    As far a flashy dress, I see my bike, not myself.. ;) Flash on everything is good for visibility of course. ;)


    All a coke and pepsi thing really...

    I am more OK with a flashy bike after 1000 miles into the season of course. ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  10. #35
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    I think part of the attraction of stainless frames is the steel bike small tube look. Ti tubes are getting thinner so the differences are starting to fade.
    “Bicycling has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world.” - Susan B. Anthony 1896
    "Cycling and ethical bankruptcy have always gone together." - Bike Snob NYC
    "White personifies this generation's obsession with superficiality, one in which a carefully curated social media post is more important than the actual ride" - Daimeon Shanks
    "I haven't %^&* like that since I was an altar boy" Hank Moody

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttk5180 View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    I would like your opinion on Ti frames. I know there are a ton of forums out there about Ti vs. carbon vs. steel, etc, therefore I apologize in advance if I'm beating a dead horse.

    I'm thinking about getting a Ti Frame, more specifically the Litespeed T1 SL and looking to use that as the coffee shop bike and maybe do a few uphill TT's, but nothing more serious than that. I've owned and ridden high end carbon bikes such as Giant TCR Advanced SL ISP's, SWorks Tarmac, etc but there something about Ti that really piques my interest.

    So the question is, for anyone who has ridden a Ti bike, is it worth it? Will it be comparable to, let's say, the 2016 SWorks Tarmac in terms of ride quality, light weight, stiffness, etc? If Ti is worth it, then my goal would be to hold onto the Ti frame indefinitely and just upgrade components over the years. Thoughts?
    I think you really want a specific build more than material. All materials can be customized to certain ride qualities -- from bone rattling stiff to noodle-like. I've owned titanium bikes from almost all the major mfrs, incl Cambridge built Merlins, Lynskey built Litespeeds and many custom. They all have different ride qualities.

    If you're looking for a bike that is durable- one that would likely survive a crash and endure the pratfalls and wear from everyday life, than a titanium or steel bike is your material.
    My Bikes
    "It's supposed to be hard...The hard is what makes it great."

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvad View Post
    Ti is a wonderful material for a frame.

    If this is truly a "forever" bike, I'd suggest buying a custom geometry frame built exactly to your body requirements. Look at builders like Moots, Kelly Bedford Customs, Seven and Firefly.

    Personally, I'd skip the stock Litespeed frame. You can do better.
    For a coffee shop bike?

    As to the "lifetime" question, at the end of last year my 1998 Litespeed Vortex became my roller bike. It had 170,000 road miles plus probably 15,000 roller miles. Talking about years is meaningless without talking about miles. I only replaced the Vortex because it needed to have the component group replaced and it had a 1" threaded steerer. I replaced it with essentially the current version of the bike - A Lynskey R 450.

    Any frame material can crack. The advantage to Ti is corrosion resistance.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    For a coffee shop bike?
    Yes. Even for a coffee shop bike (and according to the OP, "a few uphill Time Trials").

    It's a forever bike. Get it right the first time (and watch how its use expands beyond rides to the coffee shop.)
    Last edited by tvad; 11-05-2015 at 04:49 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Think about the highend carbon fiber bikes made just 5 years ago in 2010, do you still desire any of them?
    Calfee Tetra-Pro
    Colnago C-40

    I've had a Litespeed Classic for about 17 years. I've owned a bunch of other bikes in that time, made of most of the materials and continue to update the "other" bike. The other bikes have all had virtues and I don't remember disliking any of them. In the past 10 years, some have been markedly better in some ways (lighter, stiffer, different) but I've never enjoyed riding any other bike more.

    It's tough to quantify a bike's subjective quality based on an attribute. Sometimes you find one that sings to you.That Litespeed has had 4-5 groupsets on it. I'll never sell it.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidka View Post
    I've had a Litespeed Classic for about 17 years. That Litespeed has had 4-5 groupsets on it. I'll never sell it.
    Your experience reminds me of my 1999 Litespeed Tuscany. That was a great bike. I discovered after a while it really didn't fit me, so I sold it. Had it fit correctly, I'd still have it in the stable.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvad View Post
    Your experience reminds me of my 1999 Litespeed Tuscany. That was a great bike. I discovered after a while it really didn't fit me, so I sold it. Had it fit correctly, I'd still have it in the stable.
    Same here with two Classics. But it is a between size geom bike for me. Although I had not evolved so long and low when I got the first one. It was riding the 2000 one it became more clear it was too short, and the next size up was too tall. Maybe as I shrivel with age I will fit back on one again. Although I also thought very aggressive riding was not it's strong suit @ my weight/size/power. Something else changing with age, some aspects shriveling some increasing [blushes]. 2/3 ain't bad, it is very bad. ;)

    But I did get tired, as I said previously with the monochromosis [did I spell it the same both times? ;)]
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt57 View Post
    But I did get tired, as I said previously with the monochromosis [did I spell it the same both times? ;)]
    My Litespeed Tuscany was raw titanium...not even a brushed finish. It looked very industrial and utilitarian. It was something I really dug, and I wouldn't change a thing if I were to buy a new Ti bike.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvad View Post
    My Litespeed Tuscany was raw titanium...not even a brushed finish. It looked very industrial and utilitarian. It was something I really dug, and I wouldn't change a thing if I were to buy a new Ti bike.
    I liked the brushed personally, a bit more glam. ;)

    Did the Tuscany have the bright brushed as an option? I am thinking it did...

    My first TI bike in 94-5, a Litespeed made Lemond. Too small and all straight tubes. It was basically a stretched out Ultimate of the day. Old shot after a saddle change before taking out for ride/adjustment.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ti as a "forever" bike?-pic00007.jpg  
    Last edited by robt57; 11-05-2015 at 08:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  19. #44
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    I just looked up the T1 sl, and it claims to be the lightest ti production frame available. I don't think I would consider this frameset if you want to ride it hard for 15+ years, unless you are quite light. You can get a custom ti for a similar prices, built just for you, and probably with a little thicker tube walls than the T1 sl. I have 3 ti frames and find the ride of ti to be unique, if it's not over built. I've beat the crap out of a Clark Kent ti for 20 years. It was my only road bike until April, which is when I picked up a NOS 2006 Litespeed Siena, which I like, but wish it had round chainstays instead of ovalized, which makes the Siena not quite as brisk feeling, when stepped on out of the saddle.

  20. #45
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    I have a 2005 Litespeed Tuscany I've had about 5 years, now with mostly 11 speed chorus on it, it is a great and pretty light bike, stiff, and fast and descends wonderfully. I'm sure I'll have it for a long time & @ about 16.5-16.75# in a 59CM size, it's definitely light enough. I also have a 2000 Klein quantum which weighs about a # more, and it's even stiffer and often just feels faster, but doesn't go on rides longer than 40 miles very often, cause it can start to beat you up, or cause some fatigue, I'm so glad it at least is new enough to have a carbon fork, even if it is a 1" thread less.
    As the previous poster mentioned about the t1SL if it is the lightest Ti bike it might not be especially durable if used with a larger rider, I remember hearing about the Ghissiou or what ever the name of the lightest Litespeed Ti frame was around 2005 when I Tuscany came out and hearing about it being flexy or even breaking under more powerful riders.

  21. #46
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    It's one thing to say the frame will not fall apart, but that doesn't mean you'll keep it forever. Todays' frames and forks are now being asked to accommodate disc brakes , electronic shifting and compared to a decade or two ago, downtubes are now larger stiffer tapered....

  22. #47
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    For those of you that have strong preferences for one frame material over all others, here is some food for thought from a reliable authority on cycling:

    Frame Materials for the Touring Cyclist

    "Did you know that:

    • Aluminum frames have a harsh ride?
    • Titanium frames are soft and whippy?
    • Steel frames go soft with age, but they have a nicer ride quality?
    • England's Queen Elizabeth is a kingpin of the international drug trade?

    All of the above statements are equally false.

    There is an amazing amount of folkloric "conventional wisdom" about bicycle frames and materials that is widely disseminated, but has no basis in fact.

    The reality is that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall thicknesses and frame geometry."






  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    The reality is that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall thicknesses and frame geometry.

    Not withstanding that a custom Ti frame will be 50% more cost than a custom steel, or more. Let's not forget this. Which is fine if you want one and have the coin. I have too much of a N+1 habit to have more than one Ti bike on my fixed income...
    My wife's is not fixed, but I will be if I try to dip into it for bikes...

    And I think the thing about the queen may actually be true. ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt57 View Post
    Not withstanding that a custom Ti frame will be 50% more cost than a custom steel, or more. Let's not forget this. Which is fine if you want one and have the coin. I have too much of a N+1 habit to have more than one Ti bike on my fixed income...
    My wife's is not fixed, but I will be if I try to dip into it for bikes...

    And I think the thing about the queen may actually be true. ;)
    OTOH it is very nive having a frameset that you know will not rust, that you don't have to sweat chipped paint, and unlike carbon fiber you don't have to worry about damage from casual airheadedness breaking the frameset tubes.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    OTOH it is very nive having a frameset that you know will not rust, that you don't have to sweat chipped paint, and unlike carbon fiber you don't have to worry about damage from casual airheadedness breaking the frameset tubes.

    I have a72 Paramount and this year sold an 84 Colnago SLX and a Bridgestone and a 80s Panasonic lugged steel bike. None had rust, so I don't put much into the rust as a Benifit.

    My 15 year old custom got frame saver treated originally, and again in 2009 when I put a new groupo in it. But thanks for reminding me to do that to my new steel frame. ;)

    As to chipped paint, I touch up and ward off local rust spots, and my powder coated bikes have unreal durability of finish. The 15 year old one has not a chip, just spider web light scratches in the the top clear PC. My wet painted 90s Reynolds has it;s share of touch ups to be sure.

    Which all does not mean I would not have liked to have the custom steel have been a custom Ti. ;) But I would have had it Powder coated except the the BB area and drive chain stay etc. But I got too many sneakers pretty much. ;)

    But having plenty of bikes to ride, I recognize that they all stay in better shape than if I was doing all my riding on just one, to be sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

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