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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    For a coffee shop bike?

    I replaced it with essentially the current version of the bike - A Lynskey R 450.
    Hey Kerry,
    Probably slightly off topic. and I can probably search for it, but how are you enjoying the 450?

  2. #52
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    I kept my first lifetime bike 7 years. My second lifetime bike went out after 30 years. Now I am on my 3rd lifetime bike and have 3 years into it. However now I am retired and like to work in my shop so I thought in January I would build a frame and see how it goes. It will be fun. Anyway good luck on the Ti bike and I am sure you will love it. I have never ridden on a Ti frame or a Carbon frame. I did have an old aluminum Cannondale I rode to work. It did not break or anything but when I retired I dropped it off at the thrift shop.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmile View Post
    I have Ti bikes and they ride well, but I also have Steel and Carbon and even Alumin(i)um bikes and they ride just as well, meaning I can't tell a difference that 5 psi of tire pressure wouldn't account for. I do think Ti is great for longevity. I have corroded through steel and Alumin(i)um frames and I have broken carbon frames, and had carbon frames become more flexible after many thousands of miles. Ti could also break of course, especially at the welds, so choosing a quality frame maker is a good idea (nope, not suggesting one because I'm not stirring the hornet nest). I use a significant amount of stainless and Ti hardware for longevity, and I wouldn't mind adding a Reynolds 953 frame as my next build, although that means getting murdered in my sleep by the wife. One of the cautions with Ti is that stuff tends to creak, so maintenance is important. Personally I also have had trouble with corrosion of Alumin(i)um parts directly in contact with Ti, my alien sweat tends to think the part is an anode and attacks it pretty aggressively. For example, I've had to put electrical tape under my FDs on my Ti frames or else the corrosion builds up under the clamp (where you can't rinse) which eventually "pops" the clamp.
    Quote Originally Posted by veloduffer View Post
    I think you really want a specific build more than material. All materials can be customized to certain ride qualities -- from bone rattling stiff to noodle-like. I've owned titanium bikes from almost all the major mfrs, incl Cambridge built Merlins, Lynskey built Litespeeds and many custom. They all have different ride qualities.

    If you're looking for a bike that is durable- one that would likely survive a crash and endure the pratfalls and wear from everyday life, than a titanium or steel bike is your material.
    I test rode some carbon fiber bikes and models from different manufacturers tend to ride very differently, ranging from very smooth and compliant to very stiff, borderline harsh.

  4. #54
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    I've got a buddy who got rid of his Tuscany to get a Moots. He likes the Moots for the bling factor, but wishes that the Moots rode as nice as the Tuscany. Both frames had the same bars, seatpost, saddle, fork, & wheels; so we really are comparing apples 2 apples.

    I had a 1988 Cannondale, so understand the speed and the sting of an oversized aluminum frame.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt57 View Post
    I guess my way of saying I'd rather have custom steel than peg Ti. ;) But Custom Ti of course... ;) Again, as I originally said, if you can afford it and want it...


    But let me ask this among Ti fans participating. Powder coated Ti, or definitely Nude?
    And obviously to the OP, is it the Nude Ti, or at least that aspect spinning your wheels toward Ti?
    Powder coated. Plain Ti is still pretty, though.
    Ballan, we have a problem.

  6. #56
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    I am riding my lifetime bike, which is a vintage 2002 Tom Kellogg custom Spectrum titanium "super" with Campagnolo Record 10 speed. Upgraded with a new chain and cassette, shifting like butter like the day I first rode it, there is *absolutely nothing* that has come to market since then that would get me to even consider parting ways. The frame is custom, fits as if it were surgically implanted into my body, rides with a better combination of dampening and road feel than any carbon frame I've ever been on, and for the ~400 gram weight penalty you pay over a reasonable carbon frame, you get paid the dividend of near-invincible durability. Carbon certainly has its virtues, but I think most of them come into play when your riding is exclusively dedicated hardcore racing and someone else is paying both your up front costs and your potential replacement costs.

    The only thing in my mind better than titanium for a lifetime bike is expertly crafted custom titanium.

  7. #57
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    I like the Strong. You don't see green bikes that often. Of course the Strong would look good in several colors.

  8. #58
    Fred the Clydesdale
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    If you think you're going to live forever, think again.

    That said, titanium is a sweet choice for bike frame material. I have a Serotta that is great. I plan to ride it until I can't anymore. I have heard good things about Moots. I have a friend who rides a Lynskey. He likes it. He commutes on it.
    Member of Team Collin, a group of ordinary moreons going to extraordinary levels of awesome in the fight against cancer.

    Love conquers all. God is love. Jesus is love personified. Figure it out.

  9. #59
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    Titanium if properly built will last and last , just like Steel will, however be real the odds you keep the bike around that long are small, technology changes and the frame may not support what you want , at least not easily. Just think eps and thru-axle disc. That said, I think Titanium makes for a smarter bike for group rides or for traveling and should look like new far longer than say carbon.

  10. #60
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    I bought a semi-custom steel touring frame in 1976, built it, and still ride it as my sole road bike. The short front/long rear brake reach, limits options to replace the brakes. The 27" diameter wheel geometry limits replacement rim selection. The fork steerer tube will not accommodate contemporary stems. At some point, any frame will become "obsolete" if you are unable to find acceptable replacement parts.

    I did order a custom Ti frame two years ago, but have not yet assembled it. One of these days I probably will. I don't expect to ride it for the next 40 years, but 20 years is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttk5180 View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    I would like your opinion on Ti frames. I know there are a ton of forums out there about Ti vs. carbon vs. steel, etc, therefore I apologize in advance if I'm beating a dead horse.

    I'm thinking about getting a Ti Frame, more specifically the Litespeed T1 SL and looking to use that as the coffee shop bike and maybe do a few uphill TT's, but nothing more serious than that. I've owned and ridden high end carbon bikes such as Giant TCR Advanced SL ISP's, SWorks Tarmac, etc but there something about Ti that really piques my interest.

    So the question is, for anyone who has ridden a Ti bike, is it worth it? Will it be comparable to, let's say, the 2016 SWorks Tarmac in terms of ride quality, light weight, stiffness, etc? If Ti is worth it, then my goal would be to hold onto the Ti frame indefinitely and just upgrade components over the years. Thoughts?
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttk5180 View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    I would like your opinion on Ti frames. I know there are a ton of forums out there about Ti vs. carbon vs. steel, etc, therefore I apologize in advance if I'm beating a dead horse.

    I'm thinking about getting a Ti Frame, more specifically the Litespeed T1 SL and looking to use that as the coffee shop bike and maybe do a few uphill TT's, but nothing more serious than that. I've owned and ridden high end carbon bikes such as Giant TCR Advanced SL ISP's, SWorks Tarmac, etc but there something about Ti that really piques my interest.

    So the question is, for anyone who has ridden a Ti bike, is it worth it? Will it be comparable to, let's say, the 2016 SWorks Tarmac in terms of ride quality, light weight, stiffness, etc? If Ti is worth it, then my goal would be to hold onto the Ti frame indefinitely and just upgrade components over the years. Thoughts?
    I think it depends on the tubing and geometry. If you were to spec say an evergreen slx or an axiom slx, then I think the answer is yes it will be stiff, light ,and compliant. Probably one of the best examples of what Ti can do.

  12. #62
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    I had a custom built Jim Redcay steel frame that I ordered as a 31 year old. Great frame and great ride. However, that 31 year old me was in excellent health and riding form with a different, more aggressive riding style than the 61 year old me. The 61 year old me also had a herniated disc in my lower back and a right knee replacement.

    The bike? It was still a jewel after 30 years but, I had changed and it no longer suited my body or riding style. I found that I rode my Litespeed most of the time and the custom steel bike stayed in the garage. My body did change over the years, same as everyone else. At 61 years old I finally sold it to a collector.

    I now have three bikes: the 2003 Litespeed, a custom geometry Lynskey and a Lynskey Helix. Each has it's own ride unique ride quality even though they are all made of the same Ti material. I absolutely love riding each of them. They all fit the current me and riding style better than did the custom bike which was made for a 31 year old.

    Are my current Ti bikes "forever bikes"? They probably are but, I'm not.

    OP, I believe it is best to pick a bike that you enjoy riding now, because none of us know what the coming years will bring. I love the ride and feel of Ti bikes, but if it is well taken care of, most quality built bikes should last you as long as you're likely to want to keep them.

    Just my opinion.

  13. #63
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    Great post Scar.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by n2deep View Post
    I'm a little old school. For me, its aesthetics, I like bare Ti or steel frames and TIG welds/flanged brazed joints. IMHO, stainless does not make a great frame material due to its mechanical properties especially when compared to some of the great steel frames that are available today. A great frame should be a work of art-craftsmanship, the dropouts should not look like drilled pipe plugs, the badge should show the makers pride.. If it's ugly,, pass it up,, life's too short to ride an ugly bike.
    I'm genuinely interested in your opinion regarding which mechanical properties of the stainless steel tubesets available today (953, XCr, MS3, 931, 921) would make them less desirable than other non-stainless air-hardening steel tubesets like 853, S3, Spirit, etc.

    Since all steels from basic 1020 carbon steel to the latest and greatest air-hardening high strength stainless steels like 953 have virtually the same density (~8 grams per cubic centimeter) and virtually the same "stiffness" or Modulus of Elasticity (E) of 200 GPa, they're equally heavy and equally stiff for a given amount of material.

    Where different alloys differ is in tensile strength, yield strength, and elongation (a measure of brittleness/ductility). Most steel alloys used for bicycle frame tubing has elongation of ~10% to 15%, which essentially means it will bend rather than break when stressed beyond the yield strength.

    Here is a table comparing physical properties and chemistry of the alloys of the five available stainless steel tubesets. All of these alloys may be used to make frames that are lugged, fillet brazed, or TIG-welded depending on your aesthetic tastes.



    Since all steel alloys are equally stiff, the only way to make a steel frame stiffer is to increase the wall thickness of the tubing, the diameter of the tubing, or both. Of course, increasing the wall thickness or diameter of the tubing increases the amount of material used and consequently the weight of the frame.

    This is where yield strength and tensile strength come in because tubes made with stronger alloys may be drawn with thinner walls (down to 0.3mm wall thickness in the case of 953). To restore stiffness, oversize diameter tubing was invented.

    Now you may think that tubing with 0.3mm walls would be very prone to denting, but that's where hardness comes to the rescue. 953 has a Rockwell hardness of 44, and from my 8 years and tens of thousands of miles riding a 953 stainless frame I can tell you that I have yet to have the tiniest dent in any of the tubes. I haven't babied it either. This bike has become the "go to" for 95% of my rides because the ride is superb, it fits me like a glove, and is reasonably light (61cm frame is 1650g)

    To compare the properties of various tubesets, framebuilder Carl Strong has posted some of the common tubes and their properties here:

    Tubing Information | Strong Frames
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  15. #65
    Juanmoretime
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    I have a bike in every material. My favorite is my 2008 Lynskey R320 at 12.67 lbs its a very light bike. I also have over 35,000 miles on it and will ride it until I can no longer ride. The fit, feel and responsiveness excites me every time I ride it.
    Last edited by Juanmoretime; 12-22-2015 at 03:52 AM.
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  16. #66
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    The only bikes that aren't 'forever' bikes are ones made poorly or utilizing a bad design for the material. I have a 1991 Look KG96 that's still fine to ride. My first good racing bike, a Vitus 979 lasted about a year before it got hung up on the wall as art (bonds fell apart in multiple places). The era of thin-walled aluminum frames were also not lifetime bikes, in part because they were so easy to ding.

    Otherwise, just get a bike you like and take care of it - it will last either as long as you or until you eye something new.

  17. #67
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    Ti is better in the rain and stands up better to small rocks , debris and getting scratched, but human nature being what it is and the bike industry working hard to make you think your bike is obsolete and you'll be getting rid of it at some point due to bordom, desire for electronic shifting disc brakes or a sudden desire to go carbon and shed two pounds of bike weight.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttk5180 View Post
    Hey Everyone,

    I would like your opinion on Ti frames. I know there are a ton of forums out there about Ti vs. carbon vs. steel, etc, therefore I apologize in advance if I'm beating a dead horse.

    I'm thinking about getting a Ti Frame, more specifically the Litespeed T1 SL and looking to use that as the coffee shop bike and maybe do a few uphill TT's, but nothing more serious than that. I've owned and ridden high end carbon bikes such as Giant TCR Advanced SL ISP's, SWorks Tarmac, etc but there something about Ti that really piques my interest.

    So the question is, for anyone who has ridden a Ti bike, is it worth it? Will it be comparable to, let's say, the 2016 SWorks Tarmac in terms of ride quality, light weight, stiffness, etc? If Ti is worth it, then my goal would be to hold onto the Ti frame indefinitely and just upgrade components over the years. Thoughts?
    It sounds like you want aesthetics more than anything else. Going carbon with deep carbon wheels will solve your question. If you go the Ti route, you'll be joining the senior citizens crowd which is like being seen in a Buick rather than a sports car.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keoki View Post
    It sounds like you want aesthetics more than anything else. Going carbon with deep carbon wheels will solve your question. If you go the Ti route, you'll be joining the senior citizens crowd which is like being seen in a Buick rather than a sports car.
    Check out the Firefly Ti-Carbon road bike. This is not your father's Oldsmobile.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Check out the Firefly Ti-Carbon road bike. This is not your father's Oldsmobile.
    Just checked it out. It's like the new Buick trying to get rid of the old image. Still a Buick though.

  21. #71
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    we have very different views of what constitutes a great looking bike.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keoki View Post
    It sounds like you want aesthetics more than anything else. Going carbon with deep carbon wheels will solve your question. If you go the Ti route, you'll be joining the senior citizens crowd which is like being seen in a Buick rather than a sports car.


    Harsh analogy, don't you think? I would equate a Buick to a beach cruiser or comfort bike.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    we have very different views of what constitutes a great looking bike.
    True.

    BTW, for curiosity, how old are you?

  24. #74
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keoki View Post
    True.

    BTW, for curiosity, how old are you?
    You do sound young.

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