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  1. #26
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    Domane

    Given your height and the spacer stack on your current bike I recommend the Domane.

  2. #27
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    And yet I know many racers who have had carbon bikes last them for years. Personally, I have a 1989 Specialized Allez Epic, a 1990 Kestrel MXZ mountain bike, and a 2013 Trek Domane - none of which has shown any such trouble over the years. That Kestrel MXZ was involved in a weird accident on the trail where I went into a hairpin way too fast, went off the trail and t-boned a large tree stump, going over the bars. I hit that stump so hard that the rear derailleur cable popped out of the cable guides... the frame had flexed and allowed it to pop out. If I had been on a steel, aluminium or titanium bike and hit it that hard the frame would have crumpled. With the carbon frame all I needed to do was loosen the cable anchor bolt, pop the cable housing back into place and re-adjust the derailleur.

    The point of this post is that not everybody is going to crack a carbon frame within a few years. They can last indefinitely, just like any other quality frame.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlitin View Post
    Scott's CR1 comp. it cracked at the seat post; and pro matte 2 of them. Pro cracked twice. Non accident at the BB and accident at the top tube.
    That was my first carbon bike for 1500$ with my first paycheck after graduation. That was what I could afford at the time. Got the pro as a replacement. The CR1 is one of the stiffest frames at that price point. I was going to get the foil but decided against it.





    There you can see them. I am 192-195 lbs at racing weight. Used to sprint 40+mph. Between falls and racing Carbon is not made for that kind of abuse.
    My pro friends tell me the same thing and they weight 25lbs less. They go thru 2-3 carbon frames per season. Including crashes and everything.
    If you are not planning on crashes or falls then you are delusional.
    Chromoly is the heaviest of materials and it rusts. Stainless steel is better in the rust department but heavy as well.
    He wants the last bike of his life. The best material for bike frame in my opinion is Ti. Lightest, rust resistant and strongest if the tubing is done properly with the new butting techniques. It is not the stiffest. That place is for aluminum.
    Carbon resin with sweat and sun cracks over time. Want a carbon bike? Get it custom made. The frame I guarantee you is going to weight as much as a Ti frame. Crumpton, Appleman and some Italians that I remember make them.
    Expensive is a relative term Lombard. A pinarello F10 is close to 12k. That is the price of a 2 yo corolla. A T1SL frame only with Di2 group and carbon wheels is around 10k.
    The question is if it is worth it for him!
    When comparing frame materials all have its place. All have their uniqueness but over all Ti represents the best long term investment.
    Only downside back in the day was flexibility but that is now addressed with proper butting and tube shapes.
    Well OK, it's true that if you are a racer where crashes are not a matter of "if" but "when", carbon probably isn't the best material - unless you are pro and your bikes are given to you. I know a racer who races a Cannondale CAAD8, which is aluminum.

    Your seatpost crack sounds like someone torqued the post too tight. The BB crack sounds like the only one that could be QC related. Downtubes on some Trek OCLV bikes were a sore spot for awhile. Never heard of QC problems with Scott.

    Yes, steel is heavy for racing. For the rest of us, it works just fine. Rust isn't a problem unless you regularly ride in the rain. I store my bikes inside the house, not the garage where swings in temperature and moisture can be a problem. If you take care of your steel frame, it can last a very long time.

    I can't say I've ridden Ti. Maybe if I tried them, I'd be a convert. Who knows? I do know a woman who has an older Ti bike and recently bought a carbon bike. She likes the carbon bike better. That could be because the Ti frame was old tech.

    I'm brought back to the quote from the immortal Sheldon Brown:

    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

    "Did you know that:


    • Aluminum frames have a harsh ride?
    • Titanium frames are soft and whippy?
    • Steel frames go soft with age, but they have a nicer ride quality?
    • England's Queen Elizabeth is a kingpin of the international drug trade?

    All of the above statements are equally false.There is an amazing amount of folkloric "conventional wisdom" about bicycle frames and materials that is widely disseminated, but has no basis in fact.The reality is that you can make a good bike frame out of any of these metals, with any desired riding qualities, by selecting appropriate tubing diameters, wall thicknesses and frame geometry."
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  4. #29
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    Lombard you don't know where the seat post cracked happened. You assume much!
    It was far away from the tightening bolt. About 2 inches away from it.
    When you ride hard you have to understand that you are going to be meeting the unexpected. Someone not calling a pot hole at 22+ mph while sitting in the saddle can cause this. The impact is absorbed over time by the tube and it cracks. Simple. Regular riders don't understand the stresses of racing in a frame. When you put 300+ miles per week, about 15-20 hrs of saddle time and some of that time is 2x week is hard riding. Those frames don't stand more than 2 years of abuse for a 200 lbs rider + gear.
    These frames are made for skinny TDFrance Pro riders.
    People are made to think they can ride them for a long time as well.
    I have a friend in his 50s, heavy set prob about 230lbs, has cracked 3 super six evos within 3years. The Same BIke that Sagan used to ride. That frame I think is one of the lightest in the market at about 800s grams?
    I could keep going on the list.
    The only reason I went Ti was bc of my heavy set or Clydesdale category.
    Drone5200 you can get any bike you want as long as you are aware of what you are getting into.
    To make an informed decision is to make a better decision and to understand the consequences and potential ramifications of your decision.




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  5. #30
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    Well, OK Charlitin, I guess that's what happens when I @$$_u_me. Though if I ran over a pothole at 22+ mph, I think a cracked frame would be the least of my concerns at the moment.

    And no, a 230lb. rider should not be riding carbon unless he has lots of money or gets his bikes for free.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Well, OK Charlitin, I guess that's what happens when I @$$_u_me. Though if I ran over a pothole at 22+ mph, I think a cracked frame would be the least of my concerns at the moment.

    And no, a 230lb. rider should not be riding carbon unless he has lots of money or gets his bikes for free.
    Fatty better stick to steel??

    I think a lot depends on the carbon (probably more the resin) used and the engineering behind it. As a fatty myself I feel comfortable on Trek and Santa Cruz (modern) carbon. I believe Trek specs a max rider weight of 250? For most of the 600 series carbon on their road bikes.

    From just my perspective, seems to be a good number of lower quality carbon out there just to say it's carbon.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    Fatty better stick to steel??

    I think a lot depends on the carbon (probably more the resin) used and the engineering behind it. As a fatty myself I feel comfortable on Trek and Santa Cruz (modern) carbon. I believe Trek specs a max rider weight of 250? For most of the 600 series carbon on their road bikes.

    From just my perspective, seems to be a good number of lower quality carbon out there just to say it's carbon.
    A fatty or just horizontally enhanced? ;-)

    Well, if you don't race or aim for potholes, a carbon frame could probably work for you. Though I doubt I would want to be the one to test the upper limits of a product. When a bunch of corporate execs meet with their company lawyers and actuaries, they decide on rating a products tolerances based on a balance between profits and potential lawsuits. Sure, there would be less chances of product failure if they lowered their rider weight limit to 200lbs., but they would also sell much fewer bikes.

    More to the point is that a heavier rider has less to gain by riding a super lightweight bike. If you are 250lbs., riding a 17lb. bike saves you 2% of the weight riding a 22lb. bike does.

    To your point, yes, there is a lot of cheaper quality carbon junk out there including a lot of these no-name Chinese carbon frames and rims. However, I would not expect a well known brand like Scott to have these problems.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drone 5200 View Post
    Interesting. That Lynskey frame has an MSRP of 4025 which puts it up there with the litespeed T1sl disc. Of course the Lynskey is on sale for 40% off but not in my size. Honestly I don't really see the value proposition at that msrp when the msrp for a 2018 Domane SRL disc is 3000.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It is being sold the frame and fork in nashbar for 1500$.



    If you wait towards the end of the year you can get them cheap. Although this is insanely cheap. I think they also have like a 33% off every once in a while.




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  9. #34
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    You sound more like an emonda customer than a domaine but ride and try both and get the one that feels better. i disagree with the posters directing you towards disc. nothing you wrote tells me that's money well spent. and i'm also a trek 5200 owner although since getting my colnago c-59 i use it a great deal less, the colnago just works better for me but i'm sentimental about the old bike. oddly that doesn't translate into their new models.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    You sound more like an emonda customer than a domaine but ride and try both and get the one that feels better.
    What is it about a 50 year old who describes his rides and recreational and wants a frame to last a decade or more sounds like a 690gram frame customer?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    What is it about a 50 year old who describes his rides and recreational and wants a frame to last a decade or more sounds like a 690gram frame customer?
    Shortish rides and he likes climbing. And i'm over 50.
    Emonda sounds more like a climbing bike while the Domaine more of a century touring bike to me at least. The 690 gram is just what it is. Don't see why that precludes him from getting the frame. If it was me, I'd be looking elsewhere and I did. I'm on a C-59 which weighs about 1000 grams.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    Fatty better stick to steel??

    I think a lot depends on the carbon (probably more the resin) used and the engineering behind it. As a fatty myself I feel comfortable on Trek and Santa Cruz (modern) carbon. I believe Trek specs a max rider weight of 250? For most of the 600 series carbon on their road bikes.

    From just my perspective, seems to be a good number of lower quality carbon out there just to say it's carbon.
    Trek actually specs it @ 275 I believe. Not all carbon work is created equal, nor are all Titanium builds. We generalize and oversimplify too much around here sometimes. My advice, test the bikes and get feedback from people that ride the models that interest you. There really is no other way to figure what YOU really want/need IMO.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Shortish rides and he likes climbing. And i'm over 50.
    Emonda sounds more like a climbing bike while the Domaine more of a century touring bike to me at least. The 690 gram is just what it is. Don't see why that precludes him from getting the frame. If it was me, I'd be looking elsewhere and I did. I'm on a C-59 which weighs about 1000 grams.

    The Domane will climb just fine as long as you have the low gearing to do it. A race geometry bike like the Emonda may hammer faster on long flat sections, but won't be noticeably any better on hill climbs.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  14. #39
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    " A race geometry bike like the Emonda may hammer faster on long flat sections"

    I think this whole idea might be being overstated. I haven't seen anything that suggests the OP is looking at the H1 fit Emonda. If that's the case, the H2 geometry for the Emonda and Domane really aren't that far apart. If you are talking about a race fit H1 Emonda, however, then the difference is substantial. It also looks like you can slam the stem and make the H2 Domane pretty racy as well. I read somewhere that one of these guys actually races on it. I'm sure it will be more than fine for what the OP plans to do with it. Moreover, I haven't heard anyone reporting that they are cracking or somehow destroying their Trek Domane or Emonda frames in significant numbers. I have seen folks of every shape and body type report riding and/or owning them. Everything else is just speculation and subjective opinion that may not even be relevant.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Cracked 3 frames, really? Carbon is really very strong - stronger than aluminum. While carbon is strong, it is not tough. When I say it's not tough, I mean it cannot stand blunt impact. So if you are crashing in races, like throwing rocks at your bike frame, running into low underpasses with your bike on the roof or just like colliding with cars, carbon isn't for you, LOL!
    That is just so wrong. Watch near the end of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5eMMf11uhM

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    That is just so wrong. Watch near the end of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5eMMf11uhM
    Truly an amazing video-show off strength but its a little one sided. We had little pile up in a group ride and two carbon fiber frames broke, both chain stays and the impacts were minimal... Most likely the stays were side loaded in the crash and broke,, not an uncommon occurrence.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by n2deep View Post
    Truly an amazing video-show off strength but its a little one sided. We had little pile up in a group ride and two carbon fiber frames broke, both chain stays and the impacts were minimal... Most likely the stays were side loaded in the crash and broke,, not an uncommon occurrence.
    Carbon fiber frames can be made strong and tough. The design and construction and quality control is what matters, not necessarily the material.

  18. #43
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    Yep, it completely depends on the layup, resin, and type of carbon used on the particular model in question. Most manufacturers build their carbon MTB to be able to take more abuse than their road bikes. In essence a carbon frame can be strong and resilient to impact, but it can also be thin and susceptible to cracking. Depends on the bike.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Yep, it completely depends on the layup, resin, and type of carbon used on the particular model in question. Most manufacturers build their carbon MTB to be able to take more abuse than their road bikes. In essence a carbon frame can be strong and resilient to impact, but it can also be thin and susceptible to cracking. Depends on the bike.
    And that's not at all unique to carbon. Steel and alloy bikes made with lowest weight being the goal will dent really easy.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Yep, it completely depends on the layup, resin, and type of carbon used on the particular model in question. Most manufacturers build their carbon MTB to be able to take more abuse than their road bikes. In essence a carbon frame can be strong and resilient to impact, but it can also be thin and susceptible to cracking. Depends on the bike.
    Though I have to wonder. If you made a carbon MTB frame tough enough to resist impact like the guy in the video, that would probably negate a lot of weight savings over aluminum.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    And that's not at all unique to carbon. Steel and alloy bikes made with lowest weight being the goal will dent really easy.
    Absolutely...
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Though I have to wonder. If you made a carbon MTB frame tough enough to resist impact like the guy in the video, that would probably negate a lot of weight savings over aluminum.
    Sometimes that's definitely the case, especially like 10 years ago, but it seems like a lot of 1000 grams-ish frames are pretty durable today. Carbon MTB frames are heavier, but the bigger brands seem to hold up fairly well from what I see and are still significantly lighter than most aluminum MTBs.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Sometimes that's definitely the case, especially like 10 years ago, but it seems like a lot of 1000 grams-ish frames are pretty durable today. Carbon MTB frames are heavier, but the bigger brands seem to hold up fairly well from what I see and are still significantly lighter than most aluminum MTBs.
    Santa Cruz's carbon bikes are significantly lighter than their aluminum offerings.

  24. #49
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    What would you get if you were me? Emonda vs Domane vs ??? for my riding style...

    Everyone, thanks for all the ideas. I appreciate it! As the OP, I'll respond generally to some ideas.

    Carbon vs titanium - I don't doubt that titanium makes a nice bike. But I am skeptical that it is magical in some way. I mean, any material can fail and any material can be made into a comfortable ride. Among my riding friends I've never seen a carbon frame fail, road or mountain.

    Fit - my 5200 as shown in the pic is a size 62. The head tube is 20 cm (including headset cups) and I have 3.5 cm spacers. This puts the stem at the top of the steerer, and with the stem flipped down I have 8 cm of drop from top of seat to top of bars. This is a good fit for me. The H2 Emonda has 23.5 head tube and the H2 Domane is 24.5, so either of these should work, but with the Domane I would probably run the stem slammed and flipped down.

    Test ride (finally!) - I was able to find a shop that has a 2015 Domane 62 cm in H2 geo with 25mm tires. This is a 4.5 version from before the front had iso speed. All I was able to do for now was to roll around on it on some local streets in my jeans on flat pedala. Lol. These were my impressions:

    First, it's light! Compared to my 14 y/o 5200 (with DA and carbon wheels no less) this 4.5 with its aluminum rims and tiagra shifting and cranks was noticeably lighter. That suprised me.

    Second, I immediately noticed the seatpost flex on pavement and sidewalk cracks and such. At first I thought it was due to a cushy seat, but as I rolled around the seat itself became rather uncomfortable but the flex was nice. All the while, it seemed rock solid. No bottom bracket flex that I could see but I didnt really get to hammer it uphill or at all really. Will need another test ride for sure.

    Third, geometry. I didn't like it at all. I'll have to go back and try it for an extended test ride with a better setup. They had it with the stem flipped up and the bars at the top of the steerer, so it was far too upright. So I don't know.

    I wish I could find one to try the front iso speed. I am worried that it will bob while peddling uphill, standing or just sitting. Any one with experience on a larger size?

    I'm still no closer to decide between Emonda and Domane. The former would be a good match for replacing what I currently have, the latter promises a little more comfort with that endurance style. That's really what it comes down to, I suppose.

    Finally, specs. I'm really disappointed with what I'm seeing available on the project one website. I mean, there really isn't much variation in what can be spec'ed and there is a step premium to go that route. And the shops weren't very helpful. When I do this I'm thinking I may just buy the frame/fork and then build it up the way I want it. I'll post about componentry separately when I get to that point.

    Thanks!


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    Last edited by Drone 5200; 1 Week Ago at 02:56 PM.

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