Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 154
  1. #26
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Lynskey is hardly specialty a Ti builder. They've clearly gone mass market. But if you like the product, nothing wrong then.
    Lynskey started off in titanium fab before he even built bicycle frames.

    I challenge you to name a bicycle builder with more understanding of titanium fabrication than Lynskey. If you do think up someone, back up your argument with evidence.

  2. #27
    Re-Cyclist
    Reputation: Special Eyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,563
    It's not about technology, it's about craft. All technology is available to everyone, and so are all the materials. It's how you apply it. Craft includes the skill in hand working with materials, the creativity of design, and the understanding of mechanical advantage.

    And, whether a craftsman is building you just one frame to your specs or has setup a short run production line to make the identical product in quantity, they both involve craft and will yield the same item. To think that the 'one' factory in China that makes frames for a variety of American designers is making them all the same is ridiculous. They are simply contract manufacturers that are following the instructions that each customer (bike brand) has provided and must meet the specs of their customers.

    And to nay-nay carbon frames in favor of the steel frames that you want to believe are truly 'special' and superior is seeing with blinders. Or maybe you just can't let go of the old frame you ride and remember when it was new.
    Santa Barbara, CA -- My Photo Site -- My Business Site

  3. #28
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Lynskey started off in titanium fab before he even built bicycle frames.

    I challenge you to name a bicycle builder with more understanding of titanium fabrication than Lynskey. If you do think up someone, back up your argument with evidence.
    Easy there big guy.
    This is subjective, but Seven & Moots are fantastic frame builders. Moots does a great job welding, and Seven has an awesome database which helps in customizing frames to buyer riding profiles. Until they went out of business Serotta arguably took titanium frame building to new levels not only butting, but swaging tubes to get desired results.

  4. #29
    Re-Cyclist
    Reputation: Special Eyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,563
    That's true, 520, but all top builders are doing all those things. That's why it's such a tough choice and why the OP's original question is unanswerable.
    Santa Barbara, CA -- My Photo Site -- My Business Site

  5. #30
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    5,017
    Quote Originally Posted by Special Eyes View Post
    It's not about technology, it's about craft. All technology is available to everyone, and so are all the materials. It's how you apply it. Craft includes the skill in hand working with materials, the creativity of design, and the understanding of mechanical advantage.

    And, whether a craftsman is building you just one frame to your specs or has setup a short run production line to make the identical product in quantity, they both involve craft and will yield the same item. To think that the 'one' factory in China that makes frames for a variety of American designers is making them all the same is ridiculous. They are simply contract manufacturers that are following the instructions that each customer (bike brand) has provided and must meet the specs of their customers.

    And to nay-nay carbon frames in favor of the steel frames that you want to believe are truly 'special' and superior is seeing with blinders. Or maybe you just can't let go of the old frame you ride and remember when it was new.
    Here we go with the "China factories can make any thing and every thing to American designers' specifications". Is that why every major mainstream carbon fiber frame features:

    1. tapered heattube
    2. oversized downtube
    3. skinny seatstays
    4. some variation of pressfit bottom bracket

    ...why... all these features can also be found on a Hongfu or Dengfu.

  6. #31
    Idiot at large
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    5,464

    Who builds the most advanced Titanium Frame

    I want carbon-titanium weave like in the pagani huayra
    2010 Specialized Secteur Elite with the RBR not-approved Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset
    2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp 29er upgraded to SRAM X9 with 1x10 and Stan's Arch EX rims and tubeless.
    2013 Cannondale CAADX-6 Tiagra with 9-speed SLX RD to run 11-32T cassette and Stan's Alpha 400 rims and tubeless
    and
    Some Burton snowboard setups, one with stiff ol' Camber and one with Rocker-Camber-Rocker

  7. #32
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    I want carbon-titanium weave like in the pagani huayra
    Something like Textreme carbon with titanium filaments woven into the actual strands for damping. Columbus used a ti mesh layer in some of their forks.

  8. #33
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Special Eyes View Post
    Craft includes the skill in hand working with materials, the creativity of design, and the understanding of mechanical advantage
    Ah, there's the rub. When ti first came on the scene it was not used to it's proper advantage. As discussed elsewhere many early ti frames failed because they were built too light.
    Others failed because builders worried about making nice looking welds instead of structurally sound welds.
    What parameters do we use to define a titanium frame as "advanced"?
    Complex shaping is neat but can lead to failure if the material is over-worked.
    Light weight is great but not at the expense of durability.
    Smooth welds look nice but could be bad welds covered with filler and buffed smooth.
    Ti/carbon hybrids can have the best of both materials but may have problems with bonding or corrosion where the different materials contact.
    Last edited by Cinelli 82220; 04-18-2014 at 04:39 PM.

  9. #34
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Ride-Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,916
    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Easy there big guy.
    This is subjective, but Seven & Moots are fantastic frame builders. Moots does a great job welding, and Seven has an awesome database which helps in customizing frames to buyer riding profiles. Until they went out of business Serotta arguably took titanium frame building to new levels not only butting, but swaging tubes to get desired results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Special Eyes View Post
    That's true, 520, but all top builders are doing all those things. That's why it's such a tough choice and why the OP's original question is unanswerable.
    Special Eyes, if you are referring to Trek5200's comment about swaging, not "all" top builders do it. I may be wrong, but very few Ti builders swage their tubes (I really can't think of another that does swage). Heck, moots doesn't even offer butted tubing and they are one of the top Ti builders IMHO.

    My opinion on "advanced" Ti building methods is that there isn't a whole lot that can be done to Ti that significantly improves the ride characteristics. But for guys doing some interesting stuff in Ti, my top of my list would start with Baum and Firefly. Baum's chain stays are massive and I would assume does an incredible job of transferring power while still maintaining comfort. Fireflies are a work of art. I also like De Rosa Titanio's CNC'ed head tube. But if I were to buy a new Ti frame, I'd probably go with Moots, Seven, or Eriksen.
    Ordered and Fitted for my Custom DEAN Titanium frame on Sept 17th, 2008. Finally got it in Oct, 2010!!!

  10. #35
    FTR
    FTR is offline
    Burn baby, burn.
    Reputation: FTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,482
    I always loved my Moots.
    Always told people what an amazing ride it was and everyone complimented it as being a beautiful looking bike.
    Sadly she is now landfill after I was hit by a truck last year.

    Currently I have a CF bike from Dengfu (does the job for racing on but like every CF bike I have ridden it is meh ride wise.
    I also just finished building up a 28 year old Concorde made of Columbus PRX.
    IMO it is hands down a smoother and quieter ride than the Moots ever was.
    PRX tubing was designed for Paris Roubaix so the smooth ride is somewhat expected I guess.
    The COncorde is also built via Ciocc so has a good pedigree to go with that.

    But is the tubing or the manufacturer the bigger cause of the great ride?

    I question whether the swaging and the dropouts are going to have as big an impact as the tubing?
    Some of the dropout designs I have seen seem more gimmick than anything.
    Remember Lynskey's clover leaf design and how many of those cracked through that area?

  11. #36
    Re-Cyclist
    Reputation: Special Eyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,563
    Quote Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
    Special Eyes, if you are referring to Trek5200's comment about swaging, not "all" top builders do it. I may be wrong, but very few Ti builders swage their tubes (I really can't think of another that does swage). Heck, moots doesn't even offer butted tubing and they are one of the top Ti builders IMHO.

    My opinion on "advanced" Ti building methods is that there isn't a whole lot that can be done to Ti that significantly improves the ride characteristics. But for guys doing some interesting stuff in Ti, my top of my list would start with Baum and Firefly. Baum's chain stays are massive and I would assume does an incredible job of transferring power while still maintaining comfort. Fireflies are a work of art. I also like De Rosa Titanio's CNC'ed head tube. But if I were to buy a new Ti frame, I'd probably go with Moots, Seven, or Eriksen.
    I didn't mean to imply that all top builders are using all those techniques on every build. I said the technology is available to them all, and there are no secret methods to bend a tube in a weird way that others can't. So it's just a matter of choice, but no one has the magic over anyone else to do any of it. My Lynskey's welds are perfect, so are the Moots I don't own and many others. It's just a matter of taste of design and aesthetics for the consumer at that point when you're choosing from within that league of craftsmen.
    Santa Barbara, CA -- My Photo Site -- My Business Site

  12. #37
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Ride-Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,916
    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    I always loved my Moots.
    Always told people what an amazing ride it was and everyone complimented it as being a beautiful looking bike.
    Sadly she is now landfill after I was hit by a truck last year.

    Currently I have a CF bike from Dengfu (does the job for racing on but like every CF bike I have ridden it is meh ride wise.
    I also just finished building up a 28 year old Concorde made of Columbus PRX.
    IMO it is hands down a smoother and quieter ride than the Moots ever was.
    PRX tubing was designed for Paris Roubaix so the smooth ride is somewhat expected I guess.
    The COncorde is also built via Ciocc so has a good pedigree to go with that.

    But is the tubing or the manufacturer the bigger cause of the great ride?

    I question whether the swaging and the dropouts are going to have as big an impact as the tubing?
    Some of the dropout designs I have seen seem more gimmick than anything.
    Remember Lynskey's clover leaf design and how many of those cracked through that area?
    yep, my experience with steel probably mirrors yours. I have a Tommasini and a Mondonico and they are smoother than my Ti or carbons. I love to ride them both, especially as my "Sunday" ride. Btw, great job with your Concorde!

    I didnt realize Lynskey had problems with those dropouts. But it doesn't surprise me. Skimping in the dropout area where weld contamination control is so critical to Ti is like playing with fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Special Eyes View Post
    I didn't mean to imply that all top builders are using all those techniques on every build. I said the technology is available to them all, and there are no secret methods to bend a tube in a weird way that others can't. So it's just a matter of choice, but no one has the magic over anyone else to do any of it. My Lynskey's welds are perfect, so are the Moots I don't own and many others. It's just a matter of taste of design and aesthetics for the consumer at that point when you're choosing from within that league of craftsmen.
    My understanding of the swaging that Serotta did was something that very few, if any other builders could do. I recall that tubes were forced through machines to create a swaged tube. But I guess that it could just have been their PR that I bought into.

    I've talked to several who own/owned many Ti bikes, and the impression I got was that their Serotta Legend wasn't any better than their other Ti bikes. IMHO, you can't go wrong with any of the top-tier Ti builders. Metal bikes are great. Bikes are great!
    Ordered and Fitted for my Custom DEAN Titanium frame on Sept 17th, 2008. Finally got it in Oct, 2010!!!

  13. #38
    FTR
    FTR is offline
    Burn baby, burn.
    Reputation: FTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
    yep, my experience with steel probably mirrors yours. I have a Tommasini and a Mondonico and they are smoother than my Ti or carbons. I love to ride them both, especially as my "Sunday" ride. Btw, great job with your Concorde!

    I didnt realize Lynskey had problems with those dropouts. But it doesn't surprise me. Skimping in the dropout area where weld contamination control is so critical to Ti is like playing with fire.


    Thanks for your comments.
    It has turned out very nice.

    That sort of problem with too much material removed from the dropout area is not limited to Lynskey.
    I have seen other ti frames have similar breakages in that area for this reason.

    Also just read comments about Baum.
    My understanding is that Darren used Moots as his "model" for building frames.
    I like his bikes but I have to wonder whether a big part of it is the paint jobs.

  14. #39
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Ride-Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,916
    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    Also just read comments about Baum.
    My understanding is that Darren used Moots as his "model" for building frames.
    I like his bikes but I have to wonder whether a big part of it is the paint jobs.
    I used to think the same thing, and to an extent his paint jobs are the differentiating factor. But then I starred noticing the details of Baum's work. He does some cool things with his stays and internal routing that you don't normally see on Ti frames.
    Ordered and Fitted for my Custom DEAN Titanium frame on Sept 17th, 2008. Finally got it in Oct, 2010!!!

  15. #40
    FTR
    FTR is offline
    Burn baby, burn.
    Reputation: FTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
    I used to think the same thing, and to an extent his paint jobs are the differentiating factor. But then I starred noticing the details of Baum's work. He does some cool things with his stays and internal routing that you don't normally see on Ti frames.
    OK.
    I must not look at them closely enough.

  16. #41
    Cycling Dolomiti Friuli
    Reputation: Bill2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    14,624
    Bertoletti Legend Il Re is on my shopping list if I ever win the Lotto
    Who builds the most advanced Titanium Frame-294515_458188764215506_767275549_n.jpeg

  17. #42
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    741
    Baum??

  18. #43
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3
    New to this forum, but interested in the topic. My compliments to Mike T. Of all the posts I have ever read on line his is the 1 st I've ever seen to use a favorite author and use it correctly, Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Still looking to find again that "magic carpet, I'm in love" feeling that captured me 30 years ago on my Raliegh Competition GS

  19. #44
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fignon's Barber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post

    I also just finished building up a 28 year old Concorde made of Columbus PRX.
    IMO it is hands down a smoother and quieter ride than the Moots ever was.
    PRX tubing was designed for Paris Roubaix so the smooth ride is somewhat expected I guess.
    Not to highjack the thread, but this interests me. Can you post photos?

  20. #45
    FTR
    FTR is offline
    Burn baby, burn.
    Reputation: FTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Fignon's Barber View Post
    Not to highjack the thread, but this interests me. Can you post photos?
    There is a thread for it.
    Search Concorde Prelude.

  21. #46
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fignon's Barber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by n2deep View Post
    Interesting thread,, Although I do not have an opinion, I am building a TiSport Frame, manufactured by TST-Sandvik in the USA, will post pictures next week or two of the complete package.. TST althought out of the business, This was posted on Titanium Rides's web site, if its true they made great frames.
    TiSportís frame quality is unsurpassed. They guaranty to hold 0.020″ straightness from the head tube to the rear dropouts. In addition to the in-process checks, each frame goes through a final 27-step quality check before being shipped. I believe this is why so many companies choose TiSport to build their frames.
    For what it's worth, I can add a bit of insite into that frame material. I used be the North American manager for Sandvik through the 1990's, although I ran a different division (I was in Strip Steel line). I can assure you that the Ti tubing used in the sports division was as good as you can get. You see, the plant was in Kennewick, Wa. because they serviced the nuclear industry there. They needed something to do with the small remnants of left over tubing, so they started the sports division, making bike frames,golf club shafts, and hockey stick shafts (which they had to stop for player safety-they were TOO indestructible). As the tubes were designed originally to carry nuclear waste and other harsh stuff for infinite periods of time, you can assume that you will never have an issue with corrosion or material breakdown of any kind.
    As an interested observer in the early 1990's, I tried to offer some advice since the Sandvik management of the sport division knew nothing of cycling. My advice was simple: brand panache sells in cycling, so you need a famous brand name behind your product. I had read an article in a bike magazine (remember, the internet wasn't invented by Al Gore yet) that Eddy Merckx was big on Ti. I called the sport div. manager, and offered to contact Eddy myself. Could you imagine? A match made in heaven: a state of the art manufacturing facility (they had personel and equipment to build frames far beyond bike tolerances) with frames designed and branded with the Cannibal's marque. Killer.
    Not quite. Company politics being what they were, my idea was greeted with a "Eddy who?" and "you stick with your division and we will run ours". Months later, they signed a licensing deal with Mongoose. Mongoose, as in "sold in Toys-R-Us".
    After, that, I lost interest in them. I know they started selling tubes to Dean, and then under their own generic sounding name, which may have been TiSports. The bottom line is if its a Sanvike Ti frame, its good Ti material.

  22. #47
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Does your quest mean that you consider the best frames to be those that adopt the most extreme visual features? Remember, throughout the history of the bicycle frame (and with wheels too, more recently) visually bizarre different features are used to raise both hype and sales. In my two-year quest for the ideal Ti frame for me, I went with one of the plainest I could find, to get away from "feature of the month" - my beloved Kish. The runner up was another dead plain one - Steve Potts. But I'm sure a frame with twisted tubes would gather more of a crowd than mine.

    No, advanced means best quality construction, manipulation of tubing in ways that improve the ride in the way intended and intelligent tube selection and sizing.

  23. #48
    Burnette
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    98

    Latest And Greatest

    There are some of us that have OCD that has to be satisfied, so, here is FTR's beautiful Concorde Prelude:
    Who builds the most advanced Titanium Frame-concorde-prelude.jpg
    There was a program on the radio yesterday about men, and technology and, shocker here, how we have to have the latest and greatest "things". The program focused on real progressive technology in products versus advertising hyperbole. Using razors as an example, they did a study with men using cheap razors and expensive and "advanced" ones that had extra features. Conclusion is what you would expect, a shave is a shave. Whether you want to pay more for the do dads has more to do with your perspective and personal opinion than the actual performance of the product at hand.
    "Most Advanced" bicycle made out of any material will only perform as well as the meatball powering it.
    You can get the quad blade with Aloe strip and pivoting head model, but you'll still look like you in the mirror when you're done.
    Find a builder who you believe is good at frame built to rider fit and also good at tube selection in relation to purpose of use and give them your money. Easy peasy.

  24. #49
    A wheelist
    Reputation: Mike T.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    11,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Foot Doc View Post
    My compliments to Mike T. Of all the posts I have ever read on line his is the 1 st I've ever seen to use a favorite author and use it correctly, Antoine de Saint-Exupery.
    It's from the large file of quotations that I keep on the computer. I find it strange that this quotation is not listed my Bartlett's Quotations in the section on Saint-Exupery.
    .
    Mike T's home wheelbuilding site - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder's with motivation, information and resources.

    Everything above, up to that blue line, is IMO IMO.

  25. #50
    FTR
    FTR is offline
    Burn baby, burn.
    Reputation: FTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
    There are some of us that have OCD that has to be satisfied, so, here is FTR's beautiful Concorde Prelude:
    There was a program on the radio yesterday about men, and technology and, shocker here, how we have to have the latest and greatest "things". The program focused on real progressive technology in products versus advertising hyperbole. Using razors as an example, they did a study with men using cheap razors and expensive and "advanced" ones that had extra features. Conclusion is what you would expect, a shave is a shave. Whether you want to pay more for the do dads has more to do with your perspective and personal opinion than the actual performance of the product at hand.
    "Most Advanced" bicycle made out of any material will only perform as well as the meatball powering it.
    You can get the quad blade with Aloe strip and pivoting head model, but you'll still look like you in the mirror when you're done.
    Find a builder who you believe is good at frame built to rider fit and also good at tube selection in relation to purpose of use and give them your money. Easy peasy.
    I will agree with this.
    The bicycle industry thrives on marketing hype.

    I am getting a custom steel frame built.
    I will be asking my builder to ride the Concorde and then will be telling him to make it feel at least as good to ride as it does.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. More options regarding disc-brake frame builds
    By Rickard Laufer in forum Bikes, Frames and Forks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-24-2013, 07:09 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-08-2010, 05:40 PM
  3. 06 Giant TCR frame vs. 07 TCR Composite frame vs. 07 TCR Advanced frame
    By Supersonic in forum Bikes, Frames and Forks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2007, 07:37 AM
  4. TCR Advanced or Composite frame?
    By drhule23 in forum Giant
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-21-2005, 12:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •