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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristatos View Post
    1) I use my Park chain tool on our Mountain Bikes (SRAM & Shimano components), Campy 11spd Road bikes and my wife's Shimano road bike with no problems.

    2-4) It'll last twice as long as other brands when properly maintained - and if you have a good LBS you should be able to work a SIGNIFICANT discount

    5) Does anyone else even offer one?
    Does the Park tool peen the pin of the chain?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa_Lover View Post
    it is not an issue if you place the levers on the right position, many tend to place them higher than they should and then the thumb levers are too high to pull them while in the drops.

    If you project an imaginary line from the drops the tip of the levers should touch that line

    look at the first illustration on this page ( it is interactive so you can see many handlebar shapes )

    Road Drop Bar Geometry : La Rueda Tropical
    Nice link. Thanks.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    Does the Park tool peen the pin of the chain?
    No, the CT4.2 only drives the pin in or out. To peen the rivet you need the CT11.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimobici View Post
    No, the CT4.2 only drives the pin in or out. To peen the rivet you need the CT11.
    Thank you.

    For the benefit of those new to Campa 11 sp, it is absolutely necessary to peen the rivet, otherwise the chain is not safe for use.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange_julius View Post
    Thank you.

    For the benefit of those new to Campa 11 sp, it is absolutely necessary to peen the rivet, otherwise the chain is not safe for use.

    Thanks for the tip !
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h View Post
    cda 455,

    Give some thought to having 2 or even 3 Chorus chains, that you can rotate every 3K miles or so. That will greatly extend the life of cassettes. There have been several threads on this, over the years. Of course, it's not mandatory to do this, but I think it is much more economical use of the cassettes & chains.

    For exmpl, I rotate among 3 chains:

    Chain A for about 3K miles (approx 1/3 of useful life).
    Chain B for 3K mi.
    Chain C for 3K mi.
    Repeat the above a total of 3 times.

    At the end, you will have gotten about 9K miles from each chain and over 25K mi from the cassette. I am about halfway thru this sequence. You could also do it with 2 chains, going about 4K on each chain before swapping.

    Do NOT use the common Shimano/SRM criteria for replacing chains, or one of the short chain-checker tools made by Park & others. These lead to premature chain replacememtn, even though the Campy chain is not wearing out.

    Campy's spec is:
    Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links with a vernier cailper, the max allowed is 132.60 mm.

    If you plan on doing your own maintenance, Campy brand 11sp chain tool has some advantages over the 2 separate tools from Park.

    If you buy tool from UK, should be able to find it under $150. Unfortunately you missed Ribble's recent Campy sale, their already low prices were reduced another 20% or so. I find Ribble usually has better Campy prices han Wiggle (but not always).

    The Campy tool effectively has a built-in Go/NoGo guage that ensures the joining pin is inserted the corrected depth: you cannot "peen" the head of pin from the drive-side, unless rear of pin (non-drive-side) has been pressed to correct depth. There is a Campy video on Youtube showing this.

    As with most modern chains, you must never use the same chain hole twice. Once a field service pin is installed, you can only break and rejoin the chain at a different location.
    Man, awesome Campy tech for this nOOB!!

    Thanks for sharing; and you get rep'ed !
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h View Post
    cda 455,

    Give some thought to having 2 or even 3 Chorus chains, that you can rotate every 3K miles or so. That will greatly extend the life of cassettes. There have been several threads on this, over the years. Of course, it's not mandatory to do this, but I think it is much more economical use of the cassettes & chains.

    For exmpl, I rotate among 3 chains:

    Chain A for about 3K miles (approx 1/3 of useful life).
    Chain B for 3K mi.
    Chain C for 3K mi.
    Repeat the above a total of 3 times.

    At the end, you will have gotten about 9K miles from each chain and over 25K mi from the cassette. I am about halfway thru this sequence. You could also do it with 2 chains, going about 4K on each chain before swapping.

    So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct?

    By using a 'newer' chain in a manner of speaking? Or a slower wearing chain in a manner of speaking?


    How long would a cassette last if only using one chain?

    Or, to put it another way; If Campy came out with a new chain called 'Widget' that never wears, how long would the cassette last?



    Also, would the Chorus chain be stronger than the higher end models because of more material (Also meaning heavier)?
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  8. #33
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    Question regarding Record and Super Record crankset:

    Is there an official or unofficial weight limit on those CF cranksets?


    Being a Clydesdale and also being a masher I'm wondering how the crankset will hold up after five years of use. Ten years of use.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    5) Any general or specific differences between Campy and Shimano? Should I care if there is?
    The major obvious difference is the motion of the shift levers. Speaking purely from my viewpoint, I kike the fact that the chain movement when you shift mimics the movement of your fingers. Just makes sense to me and is consistent. It's intuitive and not counter-intuitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    6) Can I run a Campy triple crankset with any of their shifters?
    An 11sp triple Athena crankset is coming for 2013. I mentioned it here: I Rode EPS !!!! As far as I know, this could be the first 11sp triple. Several years ago, I switched from a 10sp double to a triple. That didn't require different shifters; only the derailleurs (travel issue for the front and long cage in back). However, in the brochure that I have that shows the Athena triple, there is no mention of addition derailleur models other than a long cage model that you need for the 12-29 cassette. That leads me to believe that different shifters are not required, but I don't know for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    9) Any other advice on Campy that I haven't covered but need to know?
    Shimano and SRAM riders often throw out a lot of negative B/S about Campagnolo and the people who ride it. It's pure propaganda and isn't worth listening to. Also, installing a mechanical Record group now will set up up later for a move to EPS, if you choose. This was part of my rationale in upgrading from Centaur 10sp. Everything was still working just fine, but I think eventually I would like to move to EPS. Down the road, individual pieces will be sold and I can go EPS by buying shifters, derailleurs and the electronics hardware. Using my existing crank, chain, cassette and brakes takes some of the sting out of it.
    Last edited by flatlander_48; 03-31-2012 at 08:43 AM.
    2016 Ritchey BreakAway (carbon)
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    The major obvious difference is the motion of the shift levers. Speaking purely from my viewpoint, I kike the fact that the chain movement when you shift mimics the movement of your fingers. Just makes sense to me and is consistent. It's intuitive and not counter-intuitive.

    An 11sp triple Athena crankset is coming for 2013. I mentioned it here: I Rode EPS !!!! As far as I know, this could be the first 11sp triple. Several years ago, I switched from a 10sp double to a triple. That didn't require different shifters; only the derailleurs (travel issue for the front and long cage in back). However, in the brochure that I have that shows the Athena triple, there is no mention of addition derailleur models other than a long cage model that you need for the 12-29 cassette. That leads me to believe that different shifters are not required, but I don't know for sure.

    Shimano and SRAM riders often throw out a lot of negative B/S about Campagnolo and the people who ride it. It's pure propaganda and isn't worth listening to. Also, installing a mechanical Record group now will set up up later for a move to EPS, if you choose. This was part of my rationale in upgrading from Centaur 10sp. Everything was still working just fine, but I think eventually I would like to move to EPS. Down the road, individual pieces will be sold and I can go EPS by buying shifters, derailleurs and the electronics hardware. Using my existing crank, chain, cassette and brakes takes some of the sting out of it.

    Awesome tech and tips here !!

    Thanks much for sharing!
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    Being a Clydesdale and also being a masher
    Work on your spin.

    I've read once about an UT crank failing at the metal axle but nothing about failures in the cf or the bonds between cf and metal.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct? .........
    Sorry for late reply, for some reason I didn't get the automatic email notification.

    re your main questions:
    So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct?
    YES

    How long would a cassette last if only using one chain?
    Depends a lot on riding conditions and how frequently you clean drivetrain, but many people report >10K miles, and even 15K+ wouldn't be unusual for an all-steel Chorus cassette.
    Many would feel that the "bother" of rotating chains isn't worth it , but IMNSHO depends on how much of your own maintenance
    you like to do.

    would the Chorus chain be stronger than the higher end models because of more material (Also meaning heavier)?
    I've not heard of Record chains being "weak", but the slight decrease in chain weight (few 10s of grams) doesn't justify the price, for me.
    The very high price of Record cassettes definitely isn't worth it IMO. The larger Record cogs are made of titanium, & are relatively soft compared to the all steel Chorus. The Record cogs will wear much faster than Chorus cassette (2x ?).

    As you can see, I'm an advocate of Chorus cassettes & chains, even on an otherwise all-Record or SuperRecord drivetrain.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h View Post
    Sorry for late reply, for some reason I didn't get the automatic email notification.

    re your main questions:
    So, this sounds like increasing the lifespan of the cassette. Am I correct?
    YES

    How long would a cassette last if only using one chain?
    Depends a lot on riding conditions and how frequently you clean drivetrain, but many people report >10K miles, and even 15K+ wouldn't be unusual for an all-steel Chorus cassette.
    Many would feel that the "bother" of rotating chains isn't worth it , but IMNSHO depends on how much of your own maintenance
    you like to do.

    would the Chorus chain be stronger than the higher end models because of more material (Also meaning heavier)?
    I've not heard of Record chains being "weak", but the slight decrease in chain weight (few 10s of grams) doesn't justify the price, for me.
    The very high price of Record cassettes definitely isn't worth it IMO. The larger Record cogs are made of titanium, & are relatively soft compared to the all steel Chorus. The Record cogs will wear much faster than Chorus cassette (2x ?).

    As you can see, I'm an advocate of Chorus cassettes & chains, even on an otherwise all-Record or SuperRecord drivetrain.
    Thanks for the reply!

    Yeah, that's what I figured and it makes total sense/cents (Pun intended !).


    I think when I get the bike built I'm probably going to be pretty diligent at bike maintenance and cleanliness. Especially with the fact that even using Chorus cassette and chain on the Record groupset, that's a ton more money than my MTB cassette and chain .


    Tech question:

    Is Record/Super Record chain any better/different/worse than Shimano Ultegra/DA chain?


    One thing that's starting to really become a reality to me is the fact that I'll be going from a 7/8 cassette to an 11 cassette. And that more cogs mean narrower chain equaling less strength (Than a chain for a 7 cassette). Is this correct?
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    Work on your spin.

    I've read once about an UT crank failing at the metal axle but nothing about failures in the cf or the bonds between cf and metal.

    Definitely true there.

    But even so; Out of the saddle to sprint or dealing with a climb, I'm still putting 50 to 100lbs more dead weight on each pedal stroke than the average pro cyclist (The intended user). And we haven't even calculated torque into the equation.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    ... Tech question:

    Is Record/Super Record chain any better/different/worse than Shimano Ultegra/DA chain?


    One thing that's starting to really become a reality to me is the fact that I'll be going from a 7/8 cassette to an 11 cassette. And that more cogs mean narrower chain equaling less strength (Than a chain for a 7 cassette). Is this correct?
    I'be never heard of even Pro sprinters (1300+ watts) breaking a modern 10/11 speed chain, that is properly assembled. The chains are narrower than 7sp, but the newer steel alloys & manufacturing methods have improved.

    Campy brand chains are generally longer lasting than Shimano, by any objective measurements. As much as 2x longer. As I stated earlier, Don't use one of the small "chain checker" guages to measure a Campy chain, it will falsely indicate a premature wearout.

    Maybe one day, Campy or else someone will start offering a Go/NoGo guage that is intended for the Campy spec (Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links, the max allowed is 132.60 mm.)

    Earlier you were asking about crankset weight limits. I've not read of any weight limits in Campy's tech documents. You're probably fine, but just the same don't use the the SuperRecord titanium axle version (an ultra-$$ option).
    There are a some Ti-axle pedals on the market that do have a weight limit of ~180 lbs or so. Stick with chromoly steel or stainless steel pedal axles.
    Last edited by tom_h; 04-01-2012 at 06:51 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h View Post
    I'be never heard of even Pro sprinters (1300+ watts) breaking a modern 10/11 speed chain, that is properly assembled. The chains are narrower than 7sp, but the newer steel alloys & manufacturing methods have improved.

    Campy brand chains are generally longer lasting than Shimano, by any objective measurements. As much as 2x longer. As I stated earlier, Don't use one of the small "chain checker" guages to measure a Campy chain, it will falsely indicate a premature wearout.

    Maybe one day, Campy or else someone will start offering a Go/NoGo guage that is intended for the Campy spec (Measure between bushings/rollers of 6 outer plate links, the max allowed is 132.60 mm.)

    Earlier you were asking about crankset weight limits. I've not read of any weight limits in Campy's tech documents. You're probably fine, but just the same don't use the the SuperRecord titanium axle version (an ultra-$$ option).
    There are a some Ti-axle pedals on the market that do have a weight limit of ~180 lbs or so. Stick with chromoly steel or stainless steel pedal axles.

    Awesome! It sounds like Campy wins in the chain department too !

    I definitely agree on the Ti BB axle; too flexy.


    I was checking prices on Competitive Cyclist website. Chorus vs. Record price=$740 difference !

    Would a set up like all Chorus with R/SR shifters and rear DR work?


    Thanks again for the tech!
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  17. #42
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    You can mix the bits from the three groups as you please.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    ...
    I was checking prices on Competitive Cyclist website. Chorus vs. Record price=$740 difference !

    Would a set up like all Chorus with R/SR shifters and rear DR work?
    ...
    11sp Chorus & up components are fully compatible, except for 1 minor point: SR cranks must be used only with SR BB cups, due to different cup seal differences that accompany the all-ceramic SR bearings.

    You really should check out UK internet retailers Ribble, Wiggle, and ShinyBikes. All are reputable and well-established, and their prices are significantly lower than any USA price. Concerns on "duties", shipping, and payments are largely overblown, go see in the "Hot Deals" sub-forum.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    You can mix the bits from the three groups as you please.
    O.K., thanks.


    Besides a weight difference, are there an performance advantage between the three?
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  20. #45
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    Chorus has all steel cassettes, which are cheaper and have longer wear life.
    The Al and Ti bolts on SR seem to have better corrosion resistance than the other two.
    That's all I can think of.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    Awesome! It sounds like Campy wins in the chain department too !

    I definitely agree on the Ti BB axle; too flexy.


    I was checking prices on Competitive Cyclist website. Chorus vs. Record price=$740 difference !
    Note that you generally don't want to buy Campagnolo parts from America due to outrageous markups in our distribution channels.

    Chorus and Record gruppos are 1200 and $1700 respectively from Ribble in the UK.

    Shipping via Royal Mail often costs about the same and takes about as long to get parts from the UK to California as UPS does within the US.

    Would a set up like all Chorus with R/SR shifters and rear DR work?
    Yes although you might want to note the actual differences between the groups before doing that.

    Record shifters are identical to Chorus apart from having "Record" printed on the brake blades, the '11' in a flashy red color, and the two sexy cut-outs at the top of the brake levers. Both weigh 337 grams a pair.

    Super Record shifters are identical to Record apart from getting the "Super" prefix, a third brake-blade cut-out, and titanium rear ratchets in the shifters which bring the weight down to 330g.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    Chorus has all steel cassettes, which are cheaper and have longer wear life.
    The Al and Ti bolts on SR seem to have better corrosion resistance than the other two.
    That's all I can think of.

    So they all three shift/perform with the same smoothness?
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
    Note that you generally don't want to buy Campagnolo parts from America due to outrageous markups in our distribution channels.

    Chorus and Record gruppos are 1200 and $1700 respectively from Ribble in the UK.

    Shipping via Royal Mail often costs about the same and takes about as long to get parts from the UK to California as UPS does within the US.



    Yes although you might want to note the actual differences between the groups before doing that.

    Record shifters are identical to Chorus apart from having "Record" printed on the brake blades, the '11' in a flashy red color, and the two sexy cut-outs at the top of the brake levers. Both weigh 337 grams a pair.

    Super Record shifters are identical to Record apart from getting the "Super" prefix, a third brake-blade cut-out, and titanium rear ratchets in the shifters which bring the weight down to 330g.
    Holy smokes, if I can get a Record groupset for $1700 plus shipping that would be fantastic ! The Chorus sells for $1745 at Competitive Cyclist.


    I've already asked it but I'll ask the question again: Do you think the aluminum parts of Chorus could/would outlast the CF parts of Record and Super Record? In durability, that is.


    Thanks again for your input !
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455 View Post
    So they all three shift/perform with the same smoothness?
    I'd say tactility instead of smoothness. Campagnolo gives clear mechanical feedback to the rider, quite different from Shimano.
    All three give the same feel.

    The Al outer plate of the Chorus FD might be stiffer than the other two, but CF lasts long and scratches can easily be touched up with some clear nail varnish.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  25. #50
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    One other difference between Campagnolo and Shimano that I forgot to mention relates to the brakes. You open the calipers by sliding a pin that passes through the brake levers. It allows the brake lever to go beyond its normal rest position. The difference is that Shimano has a release actually on the caliper. However, what this means is that you could use whatever brakes you wanted because you don't need the release on the caliper.
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