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Thread: M10 vs. c59

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by varian72 View Post
    So....with a $2000 premium in the US you get what vs ordering from overseas?

    Warranty?
    That and piece of mind that I am not getting some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door and if anything should happen, I walk up the street, not ship my frame back to wherever land, pay for it and hope I get some resolve, if ever.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD View Post
    That and piece of mind that I am not getting some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door and if anything should happen, I walk up the street, not ship my frame back to wherever land, pay for it and hope I get some resolve, if ever.
    Maestro gets his frames from the authorised Benelux distributor (Cogadex I believe), which is in no way "grey market".

    Mike has been in the business of selling Colnago's for over 30 years. No doubt Colnago are well aware of him and his business, and it obviously benefits them both.

    Ironically, you're happy to bash another retailer based on nothing more than your "reliable source", however when the shoe's on the other foot you feel quite differently...

    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD
    I'ts always interesting to see how rumor spreads. How each individual contributes to a variety of misinformation and judge of character.
    Original thread HERE.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by one80 View Post
    Maestro gets his frames from the authorised Benelux distributor (Cogadex I believe), which is in no way "grey market".

    Mike has been in the business of selling Colnago's for over 30 years. No doubt Colnago are well aware of him and his business, and it obviously benefits them both.
    It does? and you know this how?

    Quote Originally Posted by one80 View Post
    Ironically, you're happy to bash another retailer based on nothing more than your "reliable source", however when the shoe's on the other foot you feel quite differently...
    I didn't realize I was bashing anyone but before you dig an even deeper hole, let me tell you about what I do know.

    1: I am the manager of an authorized Colnago dealership in Chicago.

    2: The Colnago I own, a C59 I bought directly on my EP from Colnago America.... and yes, I followed along the 4 month build process from start to finish as I anxiously awaited my legitimate frame.

    3 When I took delivery of my frame from Colnago America direct and mentioned Maestro take a wild guess at what the folks at Colnago America had to say about them...

    Perhaps they were at one point legit, but that time has passed.

    Don't question me with forum banter, I know exactly what I am talking about.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by one80 View Post
    Original thread HERE.
    And I have no idea why you thought more forum banter from 2004 (almost 10 years ago) has anything to do with the subject at hand other then the fact you are quite handy with a shovel.

    And... I'm still here, selling those parts too. Not bad for a guy that sells, what was it, junk?
    carbonLORD.com

  5. #30
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    Maestro is basically one person, Mike. He's forgotten more about cycling than your average distributor will every learn. He is absolutely up front and legit. I have had numerous email and phone conversations with him.

    The fact that Colnago America bashes him is quite expected, since he is taking money away from them. That part doesn't interest me at all. I have absolutely no problem buying from Mike. I have done so in the past and will continue to do so.

    Mike has been in business for decades. His excellent reputation precedes him, whatever detractors who lose business to him may say. The products he sells are absolutely legitimate, and people who suggest otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by varian72 View Post
    So....with a $2000 premium in the US you get what vs ordering from overseas?

    Warranty?
    You get a warranty ordering from overseas as well. It's EU law.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    Maestro is basically one person, Mike. He's forgotten more about cycling than your average distributor will every learn. He is absolutely up front and legit. I have had numerous email and phone conversations with him.

    The fact that Colnago America bashes him is quite expected, since he is taking money away from them. That part doesn't interest me at all. I have absolutely no problem buying from Mike. I have done so in the past and will continue to do so.

    Mike has been in business for decades. His excellent reputation precedes him, whatever detractors who lose business to him may say. The products he sells are absolutely legitimate, and people who suggest otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.
    I'm certainly not the first person to discuss Maestro with regards to gray market Colnagos, a simple Google search will pull up that information as others have asked the question long before I was ever interested in the brand.

    The way I hard it...

    Mike/Maestro were indeed once a fully legit Colnago dealer for many, many years.

    The impression I got was that currently, Maestro has been selling factory seconds and handling repairs for out of warranty claims including some that were denied by Colnago America.

    I can see where this might cause a problem for both Colnago and Colnago America as a denied warranty repair would be unsanctioned by Colnago and I'm not sure why anyone would validate gray market sales.

    Perhaps Mike still has connections for both authorized and gray market frames and is also handling warranty issues directly.

    This is fine if it works for him and his customers and they are informed on exactly what they are receiving.

    I guess we'll never really know the true story as we have the word of Mike/Maestro's customers versus what I heard from the representatives at Colnago America.

    I'm just the messenger, in this case by side of Colnago America who supplies our shop and delivered my frame. I can't say for sure what reason Colnago America would have for telling me Mike/Maestro is dealing in gray market frames but that is what they said when I brought up his name.

    I doubt Colnago America considers Mike a threat as Colnago America does not deal to the public or his customer base. Colnago America are the supply chain to US shops directly and handle warranty issues for their region.

    Something doesn't make sense but without all of the details, I can only share what I've heard regarding it.

    At the end of the day, I know where I got my C59 from and thats all that really matters to me.
    carbonLORD.com

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD View Post
    I'm certainly not the first person to discuss Maestro with regards to gray market Colnagos, a simple Google search will pull up that information as others have asked the question long before I was ever interested in the brand.

    The way I hard it...

    Mike/Maestro were indeed once a fully legit Colnago dealer for many, many years.

    The impression I got was that currently, Maestro has been selling factory seconds and handling repairs for out of warranty claims including some that were denied by Colnago America.

    I can see where this might cause a problem for both Colnago and Colnago America as a denied warranty repair would be unsanctioned by Colnago and I'm not sure why anyone would validate gray market sales.

    Perhaps Mike still has connections for both authorized and gray market frames and is also handling warranty issues directly.

    This is fine if it works for him and his customers and they are informed on exactly what they are receiving.

    I guess we'll never really know the true story as we have the word of Mike/Maestro's customers versus what I heard from the representatives at Colnago America.

    I'm just the messenger, in this case by side of Colnago America who supplies our shop and delivered my frame. I can't say for sure what reason Colnago America would have for telling me Mike/Maestro is dealing in gray market frames but that is what they said when I brought up his name.

    I doubt Colnago America considers Mike a threat as Colnago America does not deal to the public or his customer base. Colnago America are the supply chain to US shops directly and handle warranty issues for their region.

    Something doesn't make sense but without all of the details, I can only share what I've heard regarding it.

    At the end of the day, I know where I got my C59 from and thats all that really matters to me.
    Personally, I don't care what Colnago America tells you. I know first hand that what you heard is a lie. Mike does not sell factory seconds. Mike is taking business from Colnago America, hence they have a very good reason to spread false rumors about him. If people buy Colnago from Mike, the shops, and therefore Colnago America are losing business. That should be very obvious.

    Mike buys his frames directly from the Benelux distributor and sells them. His prices are $2200 lower than a US price for a C59. As for warranty, you ship the bike to him, and he handles it. Simple. His customers know exactly where the frame originated as well: the Benelux distributor.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    Personally, I don't care what Colnago America tells you. I know first hand that what you heard is a lie. Mike does not sell factory seconds. Mike is taking business from Colnago America, hence they have a very good reason to spread false rumors about him. If people buy Colnago from Mike, the shops, and therefore Colnago America are losing business. That should be very obvious.

    Mike buys his frames directly from the Benelux distributor and sells them. His prices are $2200 lower than a US price for a C59. As for warranty, you ship the bike to him, and he handles it. Simple. His customers know exactly where the frame originated as well: the Benelux distributor.
    Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Again, I have read elsewhere, here and on other forums that Maestro is questionable, whereas I've not heard the same regarding Colnago America.

    So Mike the one man show is able to sell thousands below MSRP (below cost even) and that still sounds on the up and up to you? I guess Mike is a saint and doesn't want to make any money, in fact, he is loosing money to give you a brand new C59

    I don't know where you are from but the old saying "If is sounds too good to be true"... Well, you should know the rest.

    Again, if you want to convince yourself that Colnago America are a bunch of liars and Mike the one man show can sell frames below cost then go right ahead, I'm not stopping you, I could honestly care less but Ive yet to read anywhere about Colnago America selling gray market anything, just sayin'
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD View Post
    Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Again, I have read elsewhere, here and on other forums that Maestro is questionable, whereas I've not heard the same regarding Colnago America.

    So Mike the one man show is able to sell thousands below MSRP (below cost even) and that still sounds on the up and up to you? I guess Mike is a saint and doesn't want to make any money, in fact, he is loosing money to give you a brand new C59

    I don't know where you are from but the old saying "If is sounds too good to be true"... Well, you should know the rest.

    Again, if you want to convince yourself that Colnago America are a bunch of liars and Mike the one man show can sell frames below cost then go right ahead, I'm not stopping you, I could honestly care less but Ive yet to read anywhere about Colnago America selling gray market anything, just sayin'
    What are you talking about? He's not selling the frames below HIS cost. He's selling the frame below YOUR cost. Which is YOUR problem. Not his. Not mine, either. European prices are not the same as US prices. Mike's cost is lower than yours for Colnago. Same for Campagnolo. I'm surprised that I have to explain this to you.

    I'm curious as to where you read that Mike is "questionable". Care to provide any links, or is it just something you sort of "ran across"?

    I have nothing bad to say about Soren Krebs or Colnago America. I don't need to deal with them, since I'm not going to spend 6k for a frame I can get for less than $4k. You can make whatever decision you wish.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    What are you talking about? He's not selling the frames below HIS cost. He's selling the frame below YOUR cost. Which is YOUR problem. Not his. Not mine, either. European prices are not the same as US prices. Mike's cost is lower than yours for Colnago. Same for Campagnolo. I'm surprised that I have to explain this to you.

    I'm curious as to where you read that Mike is "questionable". Care to provide any links, or is it just something you sort of "ran across"?

    I have nothing bad to say about Soren Krebs or Colnago America. I don't need to deal with them, since I'm not going to spend 6k for a frame I can get for less than $4k. You can make whatever decision you wish.
    The selling below cost was somewhat sarcasm, thought at $2000 less US MSRP that is cutting pretty close and I wonder how Mike stays in business with margins so low.

    I dont have a problem, I purchased my C59 for far less then what Maestro sells them for. It would be a problem for other retail consumers though. You do know what EP is correct?

    Links... Google it. Here's one:

    Weight Weenies • View topic - Maestro - Colnago

    Doesn't sound like the same process to me. I don't need to show you how to use Google do I?

    I have nothing more to add to the discussion. You can continue to justify your purchase. I don't need to justify mine.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD View Post
    The selling below cost was somewhat sarcasm, thought at $2000 less US MSRP that is cutting pretty close and I wonder how Mike stays in business with margins so low.

    I dont have a problem, I purchased my C59 for far less then what Maestro sells them for. It would be a problem for other retail consumers though. You do know what EP is correct?

    Links... Google it. Here's one:

    Weight Weenies • View topic - Maestro - Colnago

    Doesn't sound like the same process to me. I don't need to show you how to use Google do I?

    I have nothing more to add to the discussion. You can continue to justify your purchase. I don't need to justify mine.
    I have no need to justify mine either. I'm quite happy with my purchases from Mike, as are many customers on those threads.

    It's no problem for a retail customer unless they don't know better than to buy a Colnago for US retail. You have to go EP to get a better deal than what Mike offers to everyone. I can understand why you seem so defensive about Mike.

    Anyone clicking those links will quickly see that the people posting the anti-Mike stuff are dealers or parties like Pez, who are interested in staying in the good graces of the US dealers.

    Grey market? The guy's been in business for decades, pal. You think he'd last like that if he was annoying Colnago or Campy?

    He's not the only one offering good deals. Lots of other UK distributors do too: Slane, Shiny, etc.

    Anyway, hope you enjoy your bike. I'm enjoying mine.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    I have no need to justify mine either. I'm quite happy with my purchases from Mike, as are many customers on those threads.

    It's no problem for a retail customer unless they don't know better than to buy a Colnago for US retail. You have to go EP to get a better deal than what Mike offers to everyone. I can understand why you seem so defensive about Mike.

    Anyone clicking those links will quickly see that the people posting the anti-Mike stuff are dealers or parties like Pez, who are interested in staying in the good graces of the US dealers.

    Grey market? The guy's been in business for decades, pal. You think he'd last like that if he was annoying Colnago or Campy?

    He's not the only one offering good deals. Lots of other UK distributors do too: Slane, Shiny, etc.

    Anyway, hope you enjoy your bike. I'm enjoying mine.
    Cheers.

    It was never my intention to point the finger or judge. I was just repeating what I heard and read.

    Believe me, after being online for over 10 years myself I know what it's like to defend ones products. As long as the customer is happy in the end and no one feels cheated, that's all that really counts.
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  14. #39
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    I think it is a shame they libelled him so much and that led him to stop offering classic paintjobs on modern frames

    I would totally buy a C59 traditional on AD10 from him.
    Quote Originally Posted by zank
    They're just bikes. Ride 'em in the rain, salt, snow and crap to fully appreciate them.
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    The thing about the cold is that you can never tell how cold it is from looking out a kitchen window. You have to dress up, get out training and when you come back, you then know how cold it is.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonLORD View Post
    Cheers.

    It was never my intention to point the finger or judge. I was just repeating what I heard and read.

    Believe me, after being online for over 10 years myself I know what it's like to defend ones products. As long as the customer is happy in the end and no one feels cheated, that's all that really counts.
    No you're not repeating what you heard, you are taking a bit of gossip, making stuff up, speculating and scaremongering and trying to devalue someone elses business on a forum full of their potential customers and in turn making yourself look a complete tool.

    The fact you can't comprehend that maybe Maestro pays less trade for a c59 through the Euro distributor than what the US distributor charges it's retailers and also can't see that Colnago USA may just be a little threatened by someone who sells over 10% of all c59s made each year (mainly to USA) for a price they cannot match also suggests you are more than a little stupid.

    So far you've suggested without any founding Maestro loses money selling Colnagos, sells fake or damaged Colnagos (so what is is are they fakes or not?) and in a pretty aggressive manner.

    "some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door"

    FWIW I ordered my GLBK trad 56 di2 C59 from Mike in August and picked it up from his house at the beginning of the year.

    I must have been very lucky to get a made to order size, di2, ltd ed colour frame come up as a second from the factory within a normal build window. Or maybe maestro are selling so many di2 traditional frames they bother to fake them. Or maybe I just bought a C59 made in the same factory as all the other frames, the same quality as all the other Colnagos I own and have owned for a very reasonable price.

    Throughout the buying process of my c59 i did a lot of research into Maestro and whether it was worth buying through a UK retailer who uses Windwave. It seemed to me all Mike's detractors were in fact his competitors. Mike was honest enough to tell me what he makes on these frames and for a one man band it is a tidy profit, especially considering how many he sells. Merlin occasionally sell C59s for around the same price so he is not the only one who can do so in the UK at least.

  16. #41
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    How strange.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndrep View Post
    How strange.
    Which part(s)?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Laugh View Post
    No you're not repeating what you heard, you are taking a bit of gossip, making stuff up, speculating and scaremongering and trying to devalue someone elses business on a forum full of their potential customers and in turn making yourself look a complete tool.

    The fact you can't comprehend that maybe Maestro pays less trade for a c59 through the Euro distributor than what the US distributor charges it's retailers and also can't see that Colnago USA may just be a little threatened by someone who sells over 10% of all c59s made each year (mainly to USA) for a price they cannot match also suggests you are more than a little stupid.

    So far you've suggested without any founding Maestro loses money selling Colnagos, sells fake or damaged Colnagos (so what is is are they fakes or not?) and in a pretty aggressive manner.

    "some knock-off, second, blem, refurbished garbage from a non-authorised dealer pushing gray market frames out of a back door"

    FWIW I ordered my GLBK trad 56 di2 C59 from Mike in August and picked it up from his house at the beginning of the year.

    I must have been very lucky to get a made to order size, di2, ltd ed colour frame come up as a second from the factory within a normal build window. Or maybe maestro are selling so many di2 traditional frames they bother to fake them. Or maybe I just bought a C59 made in the same factory as all the other frames, the same quality as all the other Colnagos I own and have owned for a very reasonable price.

    Throughout the buying process of my c59 i did a lot of research into Maestro and whether it was worth buying through a UK retailer who uses Windwave. It seemed to me all Mike's detractors were in fact his competitors. Mike was honest enough to tell me what he makes on these frames and for a one man band it is a tidy profit, especially considering how many he sells. Merlin occasionally sell C59s for around the same price so he is not the only one who can do so in the UK at least.
    I didn't make it past the part where you call me stupid honestly.

    I never mentioned Maestro when I originally refereed to second hand etc, that was another poster to which I replied on what I heard when his name was brought up by another poster, like you, attempting to validate their purchase.

    What I did say is what I heard from our supplier who I'm sure knows more then both you or I. I don't have time to make up stories or spread gossip. I could care less if Maestro sells a million bikes a year, it doesn't take any money away from me personally.

    I think you are trying to justify your purchase, which is fine but know that I paid less then any of you did and Colnago is one of 13 brands the shop I work with carries so why would I care?

    The reality, in 5 months Ive yet to sell a single Colnago, while I sell a dozen Tarmac's, CAAD 10's and Quintana Roo's a week so again, I really do not care, but it sounds like you should look into what it is you purchased.

    Justify it however you want. I don't hear the same rumor or gossip about Colnago America. Whats next you going to call everyone that has ever pulled up the same topic stupid and try and convince them?

    Go enjoy your questionably legitimate Colnago frame and continue to try and impress total strangers on an obscure internet forum that you know anything. The fact that you consider RBR a viable outlet tells me enough considering its the same 12 lurkers on here daily, hardly a customer base worth Colnago America and Maestro fighting over which is why I suspect neither of them ever visit here for a reason.

    ...oh and I gotta say "Scaremongering" really? I think the only people scared on here are the people who are just learning how gray market works but from what I gather in your post I imagine you wear a fake Rolex and bought your wife a knock off Louis Vuitton bag since "so what if is are they fakes or not" is how you really feel.
    Last edited by carbonLORD; 03-27-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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