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  1. #1
    BBJ
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    Thumbs down Salsa Delgado Rims

    Just an update on my Salsa rim failure. For those of you who weren't involved in the previous thread, I had some rims built for my commuter with Salsa Delgado rims, Campy hubs, and triple crossed spokes, 32 spokes per wheel. The spokes on the rear wheel were tied and soldered. I used the wheels for about 1200 miles in seven months. I never used the bike for loaded touring, but I did pull a BOB trailer. I am a big guy, to say the least.

    I just got word from Salsa that they see no reason for premature failure, so it was decided that my rims must have cracked at every drive-side nipple due to abuse. They are not going to warranty the wheels at all. Those rims were my last Salsa product.

    I don't see how using cyclocross and 29er wheels for commuting constitutes abuse. I have 500 miles on my Velocity Dyads, built onto the same hub. I will keep you updated on how the Dyads do in comparison.

  2. #2
    Hoopy Frood
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    I've had a pair of Delgado rims for about three years and haven't had any problems. I use them on my cross bike for both road riding and offroad single track. They're 36 hole rims laced to Shimano 105 hubs. I had them built by Speedgoat.

    No problems here. I've had to true them a couple of times but nothing outside the range of "ordinary". Not sure how many miles I've got on them but probably somewhere around 1500 or so. For reference, I weigh about 200 lbs and use 32mm CX tires on them.

    I have seen other posters on this site with complaints as well so I've kept an eye on them. I guess I just got lucky.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    my rims must have cracked at every drive-side nipple due to abuse.

    that does suck, but it sounds more like maybe a bad build than a bad rim?

  4. #4
    Have a nice day
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    Bigbill has cracked a few sets of Delgado rims but IIRC they always warranty replaced the rims for him.

    FWIW, I've got ~1400 miles on my 36-hole Delgado rims with no problems yet. I weigh 240 lbs., run 700x32 Panaracer Pasela tires, Deore hubs, and I take them on all kinds of terrain. I also frequently carry heavy grocery shopping loads (no loaded tours yet). I am keeping an eye on the rims, but so far so good.
    Last edited by undies; 05-23-2007 at 07:01 AM.

  5. #5
    BBJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackhat
    that does suck, but it sounds more like maybe a bad build than a bad rim?
    No, it was a good build. The guy that built them has built three sets of wheels for me, and this is the only set I have had problems with.

    The build with the Dayad rims is the same, sans the ties and solder. It will be interesting to see how these rims hold up in comparison. But I have a set of Velocity Fusions that had the same use as the Salsa's, built by the same builder, that have 8000 miles or more on them.

    I have no panniers on this bike, and have never carried a load other than me. Just the BOB, which shouldn't load things up too much. My problem is exactly like Bill's. His are warrantied, mine are not. Part of the reason may be that I was unwilling to rebuild the wheels with Salsa rims, and he was.

  6. #6
    BBJ
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    BTW, I know I am just whining.

  7. #7
    Squalor
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    Hmmm...

    That's strange. I've got 3 sets of wheels built with Delgado's (2 with the cross rims and one with the disc specific 29er rims) and I have beat the heck out of them. All the wheelsets have either been on various cross bikes or 29ers. I've ridden them with rigid forks and in some pretty rocky terrain. Heck, I drove over one of the front wheels and was able to pull it back to true (that was ~1000 miles ago).

    I've never had one problem with any of mine. Weird. I've always thought they were great rims and would not hesitate to build a new wheelset with them.

    Weird about Salsa too, I've always gotten great service from them. Had to return a stem in the past and they were super cool about it.

    Sorry about your wheels, good luck with the next set. Did Salsa not offer to give you a discount on some new rims and let you have them re-built?

    LP

  8. #8
    MB1
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    You came to the right place!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    BTW, I know I am just whining.
    If you can't whine on the internet what good is it anyway?

    BTW I just accept that I am death on rear wheels and get on with life (I'm 160lbs but will ride over anything).
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude
    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  9. #9
    Have a nice day
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    To everyone with Delgado rims: If yours cracked, were they 32-spoke or 36-spoke? I'd like to see if there's a commonality here among the failures.

  10. #10
    BBJ
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    My rims and Big Bill's were both 32 spoke, 14gage spokes, triple cross. Honestly, I would have gone with a 36, but I had a perfectly good Campy hub with 32 holes.....

    I'm big, but I don't ride over anything. I don't jump curbs. I take it easy over rail road tracks and cattle guards. I don't bunny hop, and I slow down for expansion joints. I don't hit stuff in the road much. I mostly use this bike for commuting, and while I often make the ride in the dark, I know every crack and pothole in the road.

    I wouldn't complain, but my Velocity Fusion rims have had the same use. In fact, when I got them I was heavier than I am now. I also used to think 23mm tires were cool. I don't use them any more, in favor of 28's on the Salsa rims.

    MB1, how many miles do you usually get out of a rear wheel? I got about 1500 at most out of the Salsa. It lasted less than eight months. My Fusions have at least 8000 miles, and have lasted several years.

  11. #11
    MB1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    .......MB1, how many miles do you usually get out of a rear wheel?....
    I am pretty happy to get a years use out of a rear wheel-figure 10-15,000 miles.

    The rear wheel on my Waterford fixte with a CPX33 rim/28h/14-15g DT SS/Paul is well over 20,000 miles now which I consider quite amazing (likely because the wheel has no dish and those aero rims are very heavy).
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude
    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  12. #12
    BBJ
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    It looks like I'm not quite done whining. Salsa is refusing to return my failed rim, on product liability grounds. I want it back. Any lawyers?

  13. #13
    MB1
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    Tell them they have your permission to keep it if they send you a replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    It looks like I'm not quite done whining. Salsa is refusing to return my failed rim, on product liability grounds. I want it back. Any lawyers?
    BTW you do realize that you are dealing with QBP and not Salsa? Ross Shafer retired years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude
    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  14. #14
    BBJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB1
    BTW you do realize that you are dealing with QBP and not Salsa? Ross Shafer retired years ago.
    No, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Not like you have any insider experience or anything, eh?

  15. #15
    duh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    It looks like I'm not quite done whining. Salsa is refusing to return my failed rim, on product liability grounds. I want it back. Any lawyers?

    that don't sound right...

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Just for a point of reference, the Mavic Open Pros on my De Bernardi have roughly 20,000 miles on them with no problems. I had the wheels respoked a couple of years ago just because it seemed they were about due. I've got another set of Open Pros on my Merckx AX with 18,000 problems, again no problems. I've got a third set on my Merckx Corsa with about 5,000 miles, no problems. My oldest set of Open Pros does develop the cursed OP click from time to time, but it goes away when I oil the spoke nipples. I'm no lightweight either.

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    reference

    [QUOTE=tarwheel2]Just for a point of reference, the Mavic Open Pros on my De Bernardi have roughly 20,000 miles on them with no problems./QUOTE]

    Another point of reference--at least 20K miles on my CXP33 (32h 14/15/14 Ultegra rear, Dynohub front) with no problems--yet(!--crosses fingers--!). I weigh around 190 and typically carrry a bit of stuff with me...
    This wheel's on fire/rollin' down the road

  18. #18
    BBJ
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    I'm done whining now, after this last update. I got another e-mail yesterday. QBP took another look at the rims, and determined that the drive-side spokes were over-torqued, and this was the definite cause of the failure. I asked my builder about this, and he informed me that he was having some issues in his shop at the time, and he sent my hubs to QBP, and they actually did the build!!!!!

  19. #19
    Failboat Captian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    I'm done whining now, after this last update. I got another e-mail yesterday. QBP took another look at the rims, and determined that the drive-side spokes were over-torqued, and this was the definite cause of the failure. I asked my builder about this, and he informed me that he was having some issues in his shop at the time, and he sent my hubs to QBP, and they actually did the build!!!!!
    Wait a minute...... You hired someone specifically to build you a set of wheels, and he farmed them out to QBP to build??? I'd find a new wheel builder or at the very least, have him build you a new set of wheels - on his nickle! (or both). That just ain't right!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    Just an update on my Salsa rim failure. For those of you who weren't involved in the previous thread, I had some rims built for my commuter with Salsa Delgado rims, Campy hubs, and triple crossed spokes, 32 spokes per wheel. The spokes on the rear wheel were tied and soldered. I used the wheels for about 1200 miles in seven months. I never used the bike for loaded touring, but I did pull a BOB trailer. I am a big guy, to say the least.

    I just got word from Salsa that they see no reason for premature failure, so it was decided that my rims must have cracked at every drive-side nipple due to abuse. They are not going to warranty the wheels at all. Those rims were my last Salsa product.

    I don't see how using cyclocross and 29er wheels for commuting constitutes abuse. I have 500 miles on my Velocity Dyads, built onto the same hub. I will keep you updated on how the Dyads do in comparison.
    If the tie-solder is the only different factor, I'd look to that as the cause. It might make the wheels stiffer, but it also would transfer the stress directly to the rim, as if you had shorter, stiffer spokes. Now the spokes aren't able to absorb the stress.

  21. #21
    What'd I do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyTooBad
    Wait a minute...... You hired someone specifically to build you a set of wheels, and he farmed them out to QBP to build??? I'd find a new wheel builder or at the very least, have him build you a new set of wheels - on his nickle! (or both). That just ain't right!
    QBP has a lot of services like this now. It doesn't cost the customer anything (or, it shouldn't) extra, and the shops can focus on sales and tune-ups etc. (There are other financial considerations for the shop, like shipping and what QBP charges for labor, so I don't think the shop makes any money on this) My impression is that they're still working out the kinks in their wheel-building service, but they are listening to feedback and given time, they should be able to turn out good custom wheelsets. In the meantime, I hope they step up on this particular issue.

  22. #22
    Cheese is my copilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverStuffed
    QBP has a lot of services like this now. It doesn't cost the customer anything (or, it shouldn't) extra, and the shops can focus on sales and tune-ups etc. (There are other financial considerations for the shop, like shipping and what QBP charges for labor, so I don't think the shop makes any money on this) My impression is that they're still working out the kinks in their wheel-building service, but they are listening to feedback and given time, they should be able to turn out good custom wheelsets. In the meantime, I hope they step up on this particular issue.
    As long as the shop is up front about it, that's all well and good. It doesn't sound as if it was in this case.

    And why would I support my local bike shop when they're farming crap out to some faceless company 1500 miles away? Next thing you know they'll be shipping my bike to China for a new BB install.

    FWIW, at 170lbs I've got 32h Delgados on my 29er. No complaints at all.
    Life is better in the big ring.

    http://theclemencyblog.blogspot.com/

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad John
    I'm done whining now, after this last update. I got another e-mail yesterday. QBP took another look at the rims, and determined that the drive-side spokes were over-torqued, and this was the definite cause of the failure. I asked my builder about this, and he informed me that he was having some issues in his shop at the time, and he sent my hubs to QBP, and they actually did the build!!!!!
    Yeah, sounds like a crap build to me. Someone owes you a new wheel: either the shop or QBP.

  24. #24
    Big is relative
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    Like BBJohn said, my wheels were 32 hole, straight gage spokes, and a shimano hub. I cracked three rims at the drive side eyelets. After the third rim, I was done and sent a respectful and informative email to Salsa. Their response was to offer me a 36 hole rim and pay for the shop labor to build a new wheel. I have the new wheel built with the 36 hole rim, centaur hub, and db spokes. It will travel with my household goods from Hawaii to Washington state this Summer. I probably won't get to try it out until after Thanksgiving.

    My main commuting wheels from now on are my Joe Young built PW hubbed velocity rimmed wheels.

    BTW, I have been without the interwebs for many days. I have a ton of pictures to post. Some really phenomenal stuff.
    Retired sailor

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