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Thread: 11/25 cassette?

  1. #1
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    11/25 cassette?

    I am getting a new bike soon that will most likely have campy and I would really like to have an 11/25 cassette on the back but I am not sure what is the best wasy to do this. Can you buy an 11/23 and a 12/25 and combine the two or can you just get the neccessary cog and take out one cog from the original cassette? Please help!

  2. #2
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    I realize that this is not in direct response to the question you asked, but why do you think you want an 11 cog? If you are man enough to admit you have use for a 25 (I certainly do), then I would think you'd be man enough to admit that you don't need an 11.
    Sort of a pet peeve of mine. No one not on at least a Div III team needs an 11. That's just the truth.
    I'll bet that's why Campy doesn't make an 11-25 -- an 11 is a monster's monster sprinting gear. A 25 will send you up most hills, and these are often enough not needed at the same time.
    The best sprinter I know has never spun out a 12.

  3. #3
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    Here's your answer...

    These two links discuss Campy cassettes. You will find your answer in one of them.

    http://www.branfordbike.com/cassette/cog5.html#item2

    http://www.branfordbike.com/cassette/cog16a.html

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    no good way..

    If you go to www.campagnolo.com and look at the 2005 spare parts PDF, you will see that it is possible to combine a Centaur (loose cog) 11-23 and a 12-25 cassette to make an 11-25, but the 15-17 shift may not be real great because the cog timing will not be as intended. Most riders would dearly miss the 16T cog.

    I agree with others comments that someone who has enough power to use an 11 should not need a 25 and darn few amateurs have much use for an 11. What folks usually need is the ability to spin another 10 rpm in the 53/12. Spinning up to 130 rpm will get you about 45mph and just 120 rpm will produce over 41 mph. I've spun my 53/12 up to 50 mph (downhill and tail wind of course).
    Last edited by C-40; 11-23-2004 at 07:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bill
    I realize that this is not in direct response to the question you asked, but why do you think you want an 11 cog? If you are man enough to admit you have use for a 25 (I certainly do), then I would think you'd be man enough to admit that you don't need an 11.
    Sort of a pet peeve of mine. No one not on at least a Div III team needs an 11. That's just the truth.
    I'll bet that's why Campy doesn't make an 11-25 -- an 11 is a monster's monster sprinting gear. A 25 will send you up most hills, and these are often enough not needed at the same time.
    The best sprinter I know has never spun out a 12.
    You know a pet peeve of mine is when people tell me I'm unable to do something. Three and a half years ago, they told me I didn't have the grades for the competitve business school, well, I told them to go to hell and here I am with a high-paying business job and Kelley degree. Not that I'm telling you to love money, but, guess what, I run an 11 cog, and I love the option. Granted, I legpress about 800lbs, but, weird gear combos ARE cool. No matter what people tell you, compatibility is USUALLY not a problem. I'm on the edge of compatibility with a MTB cassette, and a 53/42 crank on a 126mm spacing. Do what you want. I thought about putting a 55 tooth chainring on for fun.

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    Dude, I didn't tell you not to go to business school. I'm sure that they were glad to have you. Am I supposed to know what is a Kelley degree?
    I am giving advice I wish I had received a few years ago. When I got into riding, and it came time to pick a cassette on my drivetrain upgrade, the guy from the store sold me on an 11-23 as a racers cassette, because I wanted to race. What BS. I realized some time later that I never, but never used the 11.
    Oh, and, if you use an 11, and you aren't finishing sprinting at about 50 mph, it's not because you can leg-press 800 lbs. It's because you have slow legs.

  7. #7
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    I have combined a 11-23and a 12-25

    It works fine, I did it so I could use a compact crankset.

  8. #8
    Squirrel Hunter
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    Mix and Match

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachRob
    www.branfordbike.com
    Use the Branford site as a guide for selection. Look at the Centaur and Veloce levels as these cassettes are primarily single cogs rather than pinned combinations. Use the loose cog chart to understand the ramping combinations. The ramping may not be ideal if you mix and match but at most you will just experience a slight hesitation in shifting between the pair of mixed cogs. I have mixed and matched Campy cassettes before and not experienced problems.

    A few notes to keep in mind:
    The 11 tooth first position cog requires a smaller lockring that you will need to buy.

    Lockrings ship with the hubs, not the cassettes so if you order a Campy cassette it will not come with a lockring, except maybe the 11 tooth.

    The last (tenth) position cog has an offset so you should have an offset cog in the tenth position and I am not sure if the offset cog will work in the ninth position.

    If you are mixing and matching with higher groups be sure to read which ones are bolted to carriers.

    You may be able to get by with just buying an 11 tooth first position cog, a lockring and a 12 tooth second position cog although depending on the price you may be able to buy a complete cassette.

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    people are different

    Biomechanics are different for different people. Spinning may be more efficient but not everyone is made to spin, they're made for higher torque and for riders like that it's good to have the option of an 11. it gives you that one gear more if necessary to finish off a sprint, Ive came back on a guy who came off my wheel to get him at the line after dropping down to my 11. Could I have kicked it up in my 12? Yeah but I like the other gear option and since I accelerate best on strength I chose it instead of kicking up the rpms. Ive heard the youll never use it argument before and some may not ever use it but some guys will and not just for prints powerful riders do use the 11 more that just sprints I use mine a lot on descents, and incase you're wondering Ive seen a cadence of 180 on my fixed so I don't think my legs are slow. Some guys and Im one are like a diesel engine and accelerate better on torque and what works best for you may not for me.

  10. #10
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    I use both an 11-23 and a 12-25 depending on the course I am racing on but I use a 52 tooth chainring. This seems to work fine for me. The biggest difference is in the amount of shifts with a 2 tooth jump. 12-25 has 4 such jumps and 11-23 only has 3.

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    agree, tried it and was not happy with the result.....

    tried making a 12-29 from a 12-25 and 13-29....it did work but one shift (15-17) was balky due to the ramp timing being off (not too bad, but it gets mighty annoying after awhile when all the other shifts work perfectly) and I did indeed miss the 16T.

    [QUOTE=C-40]If you go to www.campagnolo.com and look at the 2005 spare parts PDF, you will see that it is possible to combine a Centaur (loose cog) 11-23 and a 12-25 cassette to make an 11-25, but the 15-17 shift may not be real great because the cog timing will not be as intended. Most riders would dearly miss the 16T cog.

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    Miche

    Quote Originally Posted by AZroad
    I am getting a new bike soon that will most likely have campy and I would really like to have an 11/25 cassette on the back but I am not sure what is the best wasy to do this. Can you buy an 11/23 and a 12/25 and combine the two or can you just get the neccessary cog and take out one cog from the original cassette? Please help!
    Miche offer a campag-compatible sprocket set that lets you mix and match sprockets to your heart's content (and down here in OZ about half the retail price of campy cassettes for nice Italian quality) though I've been told that Miche stuff is maybe hard to come by in the US. It's worth a google search anyway.
    Who the hell are these children...and why are they calling me "Dad"?

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    not quite accurate...

    Although you're correct that there is one more 2-tooth jump on a 12-25, it's not a negative, that's how it SHOULD be. All the jumps on both cassettes are 1 tooth until you get to the 17-19. The 17/19 is a 10.5% jump, compared to the 6% jump between the 16 and 17. the 23/25 shift is a much smaller 8% change, the same as the 1 tooth change between the 11and 12.

    If you analyze the percentage of change starting at the 11/12, it begins with an 8% change and gradually DECREASES to a minimum of 6% at the 16/17 shift or 5.3% at the 18/19 shift for cassettes with and 18T cog.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    Although you're correct that there is one more 2-tooth jump on a 12-25, it's not a negative, that's how it SHOULD be. All the jumps on both cassettes are 1 tooth until you get to the 17-19. The 17/19 is a 10.5% jump, compared to the 6% jump between the 16 and 17. the 23/25 shift is a much smaller 8% change, the same as the 1 tooth change between the 11and 12.

    If you analyze the percentage of change starting at the 11/12, it begins with an 8% change and gradually DECREASES to a minimum of 6% at the 16/17 shift or 5.3% at the 18/19 shift for cassettes with and 18T cog.
    I knew I should have gone beyond grade 9 math!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill
    Dude, I didn't tell you not to go to business school. I'm sure that they were glad to have you. Am I supposed to know what is a Kelley degree?
    I am giving advice I wish I had received a few years ago. When I got into riding, and it came time to pick a cassette on my drivetrain upgrade, the guy from the store sold me on an 11-23 as a racers cassette, because I wanted to race. What BS. I realized some time later that I never, but never used the 11.
    Oh, and, if you use an 11, and you aren't finishing sprinting at about 50 mph, it's not because you can leg-press 800 lbs. It's because you have slow legs.
    I think I saw musclebound polaris the other day toiling down the pan-flat bike path in his 53-11 at around 18 mph...

  16. #16
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    Late to the discussion

    I realize I'm a little late to add to this discussion but I found this thread in a google search using the search string "campagnolo cassette 11/25" and indeed this cog range is very useful for someone with a compact crank. I have a campy compatible compact crank with a 50t big ring and a 36t small ring. A 50 to11 combination will give me 50 mph down a moderately steep hill while the 36 to 25 will pull most of our alpine ascents. I've been using a 11/27 Wheels Manufacturing conversion cassette which allows me to mate a campy drivetrain to a velomax (shimano hub) wheelset. I've recently built up a new wheelset with campy hubs so I need to find a similar cassette combination a la campy. I have a 12/25 campy record ti/stainless cassette ordered but I'm reluctant to substitute individual cogs since the ramping is very specific on Campy cogs. I'm getting conflicting information from messages here. Has anyone had success with specific cog configurations since this thread petered out last year?

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    Why not just combine a 11/23 and a 12/25 and just switch the 11t onto the 12/25? So the jump is from 11 to 13t. I don't put enough miles on to weigh in strongly on this shift, but do you guys really think the shift would be a problem? Is the 11-13 shift ever in anger or on power?

    I too am considering this, but only because i want to run a compact crank.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho
    Why not just combine a 11/23 and a 12/25 and just switch the 11t onto the 12/25? So the jump is from 11 to 13t. I don't put enough miles on to weigh in strongly on this shift, but do you guys really think the shift would be a problem? Is the 11-13 shift ever in anger or on power?

    I too am considering this, but only because i want to run a compact crank.

    I agree with your reasoning but I've also read that the ramping is very specific to a one tooth jump or a two tooth jump. I was wondering if you had to transition from the 11/23 cogs to the 12/25 cogs only at a two tooth jump for both which would be well up the cassette and quite expensive. I'd love to be able to replace only the smallest cog if someone on here would verify that this will work. I even already have the smaller lock ring

  19. #19
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    I have mixed 11-23 and 12-25 and they work ok, though shifting is not as good wherever you make the jump between cassettes. But by the time you buy 2 cassettes you may as well get a Cycle Dynamics Ti cassette and get 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25 or whatever you want.

    Compact cranks or not if you need a 25 you are going up something steep enough to guarantee the 11 will come in handy on the other side. I used to use a 53x10 high gear back in the 6 speed days just for chasing cars on descents.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill
    Dude, I didn't tell you not to go to business school. I'm sure that they were glad to have you. Am I supposed to know what is a Kelley degree?
    I am giving advice I wish I had received a few years ago. When I got into riding, and it came time to pick a cassette on my drivetrain upgrade, the guy from the store sold me on an 11-23 as a racers cassette, because I wanted to race. What BS. I realized some time later that I never, but never used the 11.
    Oh, and, if you use an 11, and you aren't finishing sprinting at about 50 mph, it's not because you can leg-press 800 lbs. It's because you have slow legs.
    This is just incorrect. If you race, then I presume that you also do a boatload of training. If you live in an exceptionally hilly area then it also means that you're doing your fair share of climbing and having a 25 is nice no matter what level you race at. As for the 11, I certainly pull it out of the bag on certain sprints, especially ones that are slightly downhill. If you've ever done a race that featured a tailwind on an extended false flat (that went downhill) then you'd know that it's easy to spin out your gears and get dropped unless you have an 11. Ditto some long, steep, but straight descents. Some riders do not need to spin a cadence of 180 to win a sprint. They can muscle the last 50 meters instead and still get by.

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    Not to mention trying to chase back on down a steep descent after being gapped on the climb.

  22. #22
    al0
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZroad
    I am getting a new bike soon that will most likely have campy and I would really like to have an 11/25 cassette on the back but I am not sure what is the best wasy to do this. Can you buy an 11/23 and a 12/25 and combine the two or can you just get the neccessary cog and take out one cog from the original cassette? Please help!
    There are some aftermarket Cappagnolo-compatible cassetes with this combination,
    e..g.
    Kheops
    10-fach CNC gefrдst -Alu- aus einem Stьck
    fьr SHIMANO 11-25 oder 11-27 Z. 5.24.541.7 169,00
    fьr CAMPAGNOLO 11-23 oder 11-25 Z. 5.24.641.1 159,00

    See www.bruegelmann.de. Not sure where and if they are available in US


  23. #23
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    Himmel!

    Quote Originally Posted by al0
    There are some aftermarket Cappagnolo-compatible cassetes with this combination,
    e..g.
    Kheops
    10-fach CNC gefrдst -Alu- aus einem Stьck
    fьr SHIMANO 11-25 oder 11-27 Z. 5.24.541.7 169,00
    fьr CAMPAGNOLO 11-23 oder 11-25 Z. 5.24.641.1 159,00

    See www.bruegelmann.de. Not sure where and if they are available in US

    Ach du liber!

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    A guy in my club, a Cat 2 who is probably one of the best sprinters in the district, says that he has used an 11 on certain downhill runs, to give his legs a little rest and still catch back on, but never in a sprint. And one of the regular weekly hammer rides ends in a downhill sprint in which he doesn't use his 11. In other words, he probably doesn't need it either. When we had some NRC races in town, I hosted part of the Jelly Belly team, including their mechanic. How many of these guys ever used an 11? One or two of their finishers (I think McCook may have been one -- Candelario may have been the other), and only on certain courses.
    Look, you can convince yourself that it's "handy." I'm not going to tell you that no one in the world ever uses an 11, because people do. But when you factor in the other compromises, it doesn't make much sense. It's not very useful, and the energy spent on building an 11-25 really probably is better spent developing leg speed.

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