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Thread: 11-25 vs 12-25

  1. #1
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    11-25 vs 12-25

    Is the 12-25 better because it doesn't jump from 15-17?
    Is losing the 11 a big deal?
    Crankset is 34 50...

  2. #2
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    50x11 is a pretty tall gear, you probably wont use it much at all unless you do a lot of high speed descents or sprints, in which case you'd be better off with the 12-25. Flats and shifting winds you'd probably appreciate the 16t cog.

  3. #3
    Bianchi-Campagnolo
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    I've decided to buy a 11-23 for My Campagnolo 11 compact setup to get a straight 11-19 for these 180 km + double paceline rides. With the 11-25 I miss the 18 from time to time.

    It's never enough, PoorCyclist, never enough.

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    It depends on you and the riding you're doing, and maybe even the specific course you're riding. You certainly can have several cassettes or a couple of wheels with different cassettes to select among depending on conditions. Here's a graphical gearing calculator you might find helpful.

    http://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=2...F=2099&SL=2.15

  5. #5
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    I use a 12-25 for 95% of my riding. I have a 12-27 for riding in the mountains of W. VA and a 11-23 for pancake flat races and sprint training. Even when I have the 11 on, I don't necessarily use it. You would be better off to develop a smooth high cadence spin unless you find yourself lacking in the last kick to the line (in which I would suggest switching to a 53-39).

  6. #6
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    If you could actually tell the difference, then you're better than me.

  7. #7
    Descender
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    I live in Colorado where an 11 comes in handy on descents, here you are either climbing or descending - you do use it here - wouldn't use it in hilly or flat terrain.

  8. #8
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    If you only have a 50 X 12, you'll have a hard time contesting those 40+ mph sprints.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  9. #9
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    The difference between the 11-25 and a 12-25 is that you loose the 11 (duh? right?) but you pick up a 16.

    I switched because I never used the 11. I hardly ever use the 12 or the 13. But I do use the middle of the cassette alot. So a 16 made sense for my particular requirements.
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  10. #10
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    I prefer the 11-25 for a compact double because on my terrain, the 12 isn't enough with the 34 front ring and I am constantly shifting. Not so often with the 11.

  11. #11
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    I run a 53x39 chainset but I would always choose 12-25 over 11-25. Or basically I would always choose a cassette with a 16T cog, I really notice its absence when I don't have it. This is because I find the jump from 15 to 17 a little too large, but once I'm clear of the 17 then a 2-teeth jump between cogs is just about perfect. So for a 10spd cassette I choose 12-25 or 11-23.

  12. #12
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    Unless you're racing, and IME even if you are, you'll never miss the 11. Get the 12-25. It has a noticeably closer mid range ratio, which is where you spend most of your time.
    Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you'll be a mile away & you'll have their shoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chas0039
    I prefer the 11-25 for a compact double because on my terrain, the 12 isn't enough with the 34 front ring and I am constantly shifting. Not so often with the 11.
    If that's what you really meant to say, I think you're doing it wrong!

    Anyway, I have a compact with a lot of different cassettes. The 12-25 is generally on the bike, while the 11-25 is pristine in its packaging on the shelf.
    Old La Honda in less than 20 minutes! Or you can watch race video from the low-key hill climb on Welch Creek. More at www.biketelemetry.com.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas0039
    I prefer the 11-25 for a compact double because on my terrain, the 12 isn't enough with the 34 front ring and I am constantly shifting. Not so often with the 11.
    Why would you ever ride in either the 11 or 12 with the 34?


    Historic context for OP: In the olden days, most peoples highest gear was usually a 53x13. When more speeds were offered (6, 7, 8), speedy people started spending one of their few cogs on a downhill/sprint gear - a 12.

    On compact systems, a 50x12 is about the same as a 53x13. So if you want the sporty high gear, you get the 11. If you don't need the super big gear, use the closer spaced 12-25. If you'd like the bigger high gear, I doubt you'll miss that 16.
    Last edited by rx-79g; 01-23-2011 at 08:21 PM.

  15. #15
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    I have 50-34/12-25 on my "modern" 10 speed bike. And I have 53-39/12-23 on my 8 speed "vintage" bike. On the vintage, I miss the 16 and need the 53/12 like a hole in the head.

    So I seriously doubt I'd need a 50/11 and also suffer the loss of the 16.
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  16. #16
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    Sorry guys, that is what I need with the geography around here. I spend most of the time in 34 or in 39 with my bikes that have a double front. The only time I need to go to 11 or 12, for that matter, is with the 34 which is why I am not a fan of compact at all. If I have a 12 with my 34, I am constantly shifting to the 50 and then back to the 34 and then back to the 50 and then back to the 34. With the 11, I have a 12 as the second cog so for the few minutes that I need the 11, I have whay I need without having to go through a major shift to 50/16 to get to the same ratio. It is just a royal pain.

    I know many of you still hold that crossing from the inner front gear to the outer rear is forbidden, but with today's hardware, many posters here have said that prohibition is out of date. My chains don't wear out any faster on that bike, nor do my gears. I am not rubbing anything and I kind of look it as though I should get to use the gears that are there when they do what I want. After all, I paid for them and the number of times I would use a 50/11 or 50/12 are near zero. So what good are they if not with the inner front gear?

    Anyhow, I know to some this is heresy and I really dislike compact gearing as well, another punishable offense, but I was just passing on what I have been doing for a few years that has worked for me.

  17. #17
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    delete

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas0039
    Sorry guys, that is what I need with the geography around here. I spend most of the time in 34 or in 39 with my bikes that have a double front.
    I think you need to reconsider your gearing - you are effectively riding your bike as if it has just a single chain-ring. Assuming that you need that 34 for hills, how about swapping that 50 chain-ring for something smaller that gets you more into the sweet-spot on your cassette? I'm thinking a 46 or a 48, but you'd have to check a gear ratio chart to be sure. You'd also get better front shifting with a smaller ratio change (so less rear shifting to compensate), which might convince you to shift the front rather than using extreme gear combinations with the small chain-ring.
    Old La Honda in less than 20 minutes! Or you can watch race video from the low-key hill climb on Welch Creek. More at www.biketelemetry.com.

    "I think," said Christopher Robin, "that we ought to eat all our Provisions now, so that we shan't have so much to carry.", Winnie-the-Pooh, A. A. Milne.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorCyclist
    Is the 12-25 better because it doesn't jump from 15-17?
    Yes. And a 13-26 is better than a 12-25 because it doesn't jump from 17 to 19.

    Is losing the 11 a big deal?
    No. I had a 50x13 high gear for a decade in the Colorado Rockies (50-34x13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 after switching to 9 speeds and a compact, 50-40-30x13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21 in the 8 speed era). It's good for better than 30 MPH at sustainable RPMs and 36 MPH on sprints. Down-hill it's faster to tuck than pedal. Apart from a few rare occasions (near Chinook tail wind) I'm not going to need anything bigger on flat ground; but do use 50x17/18/19 for a hundred miles a week.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukbloke
    I think you need to reconsider your gearing - you are effectively riding your bike as if it has just a single chain-ring. Assuming that you need that 34 for hills, how about swapping that 50 chain-ring for something smaller that gets you more into the sweet-spot on your cassette? I'm thinking a 46 or a 48, but you'd have to check a gear ratio chart to be sure. You'd also get better front shifting with a smaller ratio change (so less rear shifting to compensate), which might convince you to shift the front rather than using extreme gear combinations with the small chain-ring.
    You are absolutely correct that I would be able to do a better job with a larger inner gear or a smaller outer gear. Unfortunately, Campy individual chainrings are either prohibitively expensive or non-existent. I am limited to 34/50 or 39/53. I was lucky enough to find a triple that will solve the problem on my compact bike and once I wear out the compact ring, I'll be through with it forever. When I discovered the limitations of compact cranks, I made sure my future bikes were set up with 39/53.

    I spent a lot of time trying to figure out something that was more logical, but Campy has predetermined that I want only two choices and the Compact community seems to have decided that I want 34/50. If I wasn't a Campy rider, I would have a ton of chainring options and I would have swapped out long ago.

    Sorry I didn't point that out earlier; it was quite a while ago and I had forgotten the whole long drawn out process that I went through trying to find out some way to fix my compact problem.

  21. #21
    Bianchi-Campagnolo
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    With 10 speed Campagnolo there is the possibility of a 13-29 if your rear derallieur/hanger can handle it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas0039
    You are absolutely correct that I would be able to do a better job with a larger inner gear or a smaller outer gear. Unfortunately, Campy individual chainrings are either prohibitively expensive or non-existent. I am limited to 34/50 or 39/53.
    TA Specialties makes nice rings in 135mm and 110/112.5mm BCDs in pretty much any tooth count you'd want and they're not horribly expensive when ordered from Europe.

    I spent a lot of time trying to figure out something that was more logical, but Campy has predetermined that I want only two choices and the Compact community seems to have decided that I want 34/50. If I wasn't a Campy rider, I would have a ton of chainring options and I would have swapped out long ago.
    For 2011 Campagnolo will be selling 10 and 11 speed aluminum and carbon fiber "cyclocross" cranksets in 46-36. I think 46-36x12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 would be pretty nice road gearing.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
    TA Specialties makes nice rings in 135mm and 110/112.5mm BCDs in pretty much any tooth count you'd want and they're not horribly expensive when ordered from Europe.



    For 2011 Campagnolo will be selling 10 and 11 speed aluminum and carbon fiber "cyclocross" cranksets in 46-36. I think 46-36x12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 would be pretty nice road gearing.
    Thanks for the tips. I might look at those rings if I can find a source across the pond. My budget is limited and I managed to get all my front crank-sets over the last few years for close to $35 each or less, so you can see why the usual price of around $100+ for a single ring was off-putting. Now if I can get their cyclocross rings (for less than $50) to work on a square taper...... oh well, maybe after peace in the middle east.

    Edit: I do see that Peterwhitecycles has a wider selection now at a lower price, and Wiggle has exactly what I need at $45. Maybe this is the year I quit cross-chaining?
    Last edited by chas0039; 01-24-2011 at 12:54 PM.

  24. #24
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    Thanks guys, my riding consists of climbing, every ride..
    on the descent I do try out 11 vs 12 .. seems like the 12 needs to spin alot on the 50 chainring. 90+ rpm. Actually I notice it more on smaller grade 2-4% or tailwind situations, I think I'd prefer 11 to be available.
    but then I am not exactly a dare devil, to me descent is just means training over and cruise home. So maybe less speed will help me stay out of trouble

  25. #25
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    chas0039,
    I am confused by your "compact troubles".

    What kind of terrain do you ride?

    What are your most common or typical gear choices, when you are on the 34 chainring?

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