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  1. #1
    titanium junkie
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    2007 Campy Centaur and Record QS

    I have just finished putting together my first 2007 QS Campy equipped bike (Centaur for now) and I have a few questions for your experienced Campy riders.

    Why are the hoods on the Record split on the bottom revealing the mechanism but not on the Centaurs? I think the split at the bottom of the hood may not be a good idea, as sweat from the hands can run down and into the mechanism. But why split on the Record and not on the Centaur? I probably wouldn’t know the difference if I did not have both in my hands.

    As far as I can tell, the front shifting has four distinctive clicks, one downshift (shift to the small ring) and three upshifts. For some reason, I seem to be able to sweep up two clicks and have to do a third click separately to get to the outer limit of the big ring. I do randomly get to pass three up clicks with one sweep but seem to miss the last up click 5 out of 10 trials. Maybe I need more practice to do a full sweep? As for shifting down to the small ring, it only takes one singe click, dropping from the outer limit to the inner limit. How doest this work with a triple crankset? Not that I plan on using a triple with this but it seems like with one single click going down all the way, you cannot get to the middle ring without going down to the small ring first.

    On the front derailleur, when it is on the inner limit, the cable that comes up under the frame seems to touch the spring mechanism, is there a better way to anchor the cable so it clears the contact with the spring mechanism? Also, there is a rubber bumper on the outer side of the cage, should the chain clear this rubber? In another word, should the clearance reference to this rubber bumper or to the cage itself?

    On the rear derailleur, the cable that comes out of the adjuster nut to the anchor point at an angle, making the cable rubbing the edge of the adjuster nut. Is this the way as designed?

    Sorry for these dump questions but being new to Campy these are just my first observations...
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  2. #2
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    some help...

    The Record/Chorus hoods have a split to permit the large range of travel for the thumb button. The thumb button can shift through all 10 cogs with one push, not just one at a time. As I understand the new Centaur Escape mechanism, the thumb button has very little travel and only shifts one cog smaller at a time.

    You may have attached the FD cable to the wrong side of the clamp bolt. It attaches to the side closest to the seat tube.

    I suspect that the problem with left finger lever not always executing 3 clicks is due to the big ring limit screw being adjusted to far in, not allowing the FD cage to go quite far enough to the right. Turn the screw about 1/8 turn CCW. That's also why the chain touches the plastic insert on the right side of the cage. There should be no contact.

    On the RD, maybe you've attached the cable to the wrong side of this bolt too, but if you did the shifting would not exectue properly.

    As for how the Centaur ergo lever operates a triple, the single push of the thumb button is probably enough to shift one chainring at a time. If you had a triple crank, pushing the button once would drop the chain to the middle ring and pushing again would drop it to the little ring (I'm speculating here).

    With a Record/Chorus lever, the thumb button has unlimited travel. It takes 7 clicks to go from the big ring down to the little ring on a triple. Push the thumb button down just enough to get 3 clicks and the shift to the middle ring will execute. If you push too far and go through all 7 clicks, it will shift all the way to the little ring. In the opposite direction, a full sweep of the finger lever (5 clicks) will execute the little to middle ring shift. Then a trim shift with the thumb button of 1-2 clicks recenters the FD.
    Last edited by C-40; 03-05-2007 at 08:46 AM.

  3. #3
    titanium junkie
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    C-40,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I will double check when I get home but I am certain that both of my front and rear cable attachements match the figures I found on Campy's website this morning. In fact, now having looked these figures, it looks like the rear cable does indeed come out of the adjuster nut to the enchor point at an angle. Damn I don't think that is a very good design, as the edge of the adjuster nut will wear the cable out pretty quickly. On the front cable, assuming I have it setup correctly per the figure, I don't know what else can be done to clear it from the spring mechanism.

    As for the FD, it did have a small gap between the rubber bumper and the chain. If the outer limiting screw was restraining the travel of the last up click, then I would not be able to do an additional sweep to get to the outer limit at all or would I.

    The downshift button seems to have only one position, which to shift it down to the inner limit. I was looking for at least two downshift clicks but only one avialable as far as I can tell. I would like to have another 07 Centaur rider to verify this feature for me if possible. Anyone?

    It does make sense the way you explain for the difference between the Centaur and Record shifters. The 07 Centaur button does indeed have a very short travel and I think I like the non split hood better. I will also be building a 07 QS Record bike after this one so only then I will know exactly how these two groups compare.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2007 Campy Centaur and Record QS-campy_front_derailleur.jpg   2007 Campy Centaur and Record QS-campy_rear_derailleur_01.jpg   2007 Campy Centaur and Record QS-campy_rear_derailleur_02.jpg  
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  4. #4
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    Campy FD clamp on 31.8 vs 32.0

    IGNORE, I posted this in wrong place.
    I need a 31.8 Campy clamp on Front Derailleur. Looking at ads I see tons more and at better prices in the 32.0 size, and claiming they fit 31.8 as well.
    Would the 32.0 clamps use a shim? What's the story?
    Last edited by merckxman; 03-05-2007 at 11:59 AM.

  5. #5
    titanium junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckxman
    I need a 31.8 Campy clamp on Front Derailleur. Looking at ads I see tons more and at better prices in the 32.0 size, and claiming they fit 31.8 as well.
    Would the 32.0 clamps use a shim? What's the story?
    As far as I know, the 31.8mm clamp is the same as 32mm one. Campy stamps the inside of the clamp 32mm.
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigoat
    C-40,

    Thanks for the reply.

    As for the FD, it did have a small gap between the rubber bumper and the chain. If the outer limiting screw was restraining the travel of the last up click, then I would not be able to do an additional sweep to get to the outer limit at all or would I.

    It does make sense the way you explain for the difference between the Centaur and Record shifters. The 07 Centaur button does indeed have a very short travel and I think I like the non split hood better. I will also be building a 07 QS Record bike after this one so only then I will know exactly how these two groups compare.
    To answer the first qustion, yes it's possible that you may have the limit screw adjusted so the lever won't quite catch the third click. Releasing the lever and starting a new sweep may indeed give you the extra click. If unrestricted, the left finger lever can go through 5 clicks with one sweep of the lever. It must have this 5-click ability or it wouldn't operate a triple FD. I also think the cable's close proxiity to the FD spring is normal.

    I wouldn't get excited about the RD cable either. It's the same as any other Campy RD. I've never seen a cable worn out in the area you've indicated. Look at the picture you posted. That's exactly how it should look.

    You might like the brake hood without the split, but the big difference is the ablity of a Record/Chorus ergo lever to shift through many cogs with one push of the button. When shifting to the small ring, it's common to shift 2-3 cogs with a 53/39 and one more with a 50/34. One push of the thumb button is a lot easier than several. To me, it's a downgrade in performance.

  7. #7
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    The RD cable will only be rubbing the adjuster when positioned on the smallest cog. As the derailleur moves thru the cogs, the cable will start switching angles relative to the adjuster and be angled to the complete opposite side when the RD is positioned on the largest cog and rubbing the other side of the adjuster.

    All my campy FD cables touch the spring when the derailleur is positioned closes to seat tube. As the FD moves away from ST, the cable will not touch the spring any longer.

  8. #8
    titanium junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchi67
    The RD cable will only be rubbing the adjuster when positioned on the smallest cog. As the derailleur moves thru the cogs, the cable will start switching angles relative to the adjuster and be angled to the complete opposite side when the RD is positioned on the largest cog and rubbing the other side of the adjuster.

    All my campy FD cables touch the spring when the derailleur is positioned closes to seat tube. As the FD moves away from ST, the cable will not touch the spring any longer.
    Thanks for the reply. It is good to know that it is normal the way I have the FD and RD setup on my bike. I did verify my cable mounts last night and indeed they look just like those figures from Campy. Honestnly, I did not look at those figures when I set my up, just slapped everything together with common sense and of course with a little bit of my gearhead background. Since everything is normal as designed, I will have to go along with it whether I like it or not.
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  9. #9
    titanium junkie
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    Apparently, that one button click to shift to the small ring is as designed according to Campy. It is called QS technology and this applies to 07 Record and Chorus as well. I would however call it BS technology since it works more like Shimano's. It is still unclear to me how this QS front shifting work with a triple crankset.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    To answer the first qustion, yes it's possible that you may have the limit screw adjusted so the lever won't quite catch the third click. Releasing the lever and starting a new sweep may indeed give you the extra click. If unrestricted, the left finger lever can go through 5 clicks with one sweep of the lever. It must have this 5-click ability or it wouldn't operate a triple FD. I also think the cable's close proxiity to the FD spring is normal.

    I wouldn't get excited about the RD cable either. It's the same as any other Campy RD. I've never seen a cable worn out in the area you've indicated. Look at the picture you posted. That's exactly how it should look.

    You might like the brake hood without the split, but the big difference is the ablity of a Record/Chorus ergo lever to shift through many cogs with one push of the button. When shifting to the small ring, it's common to shift 2-3 cogs with a 53/39 and one more with a 50/34. One push of the thumb button is a lot easier than several. To me, it's a downgrade in performance.
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigoat
    As far as I know, the 31.8mm clamp is the same as 32mm one. Campy stamps the inside of the clamp 32mm.
    Pull out your ruler and look at 1mm. Now split 1mm up 5 times, that is the difference we're talking about here.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigoat
    Apparently, that one button click to shift to the small ring is as designed according to Campy. It is called QS technology and this applies to 07 Record and Chorus as well. I would however call it BS technology since it works more like Shimano's. It is still unclear to me how this QS front shifting work with a triple crankset.
    I don't have QS as I run 2006 Record and Centaur groupos...but one thing I do know is that Campy doesn't make a triple in any of the 2007 groupos. QS may NOT work with a triple.

  12. #12
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    wrong...

    The QS function only applies to the finger lever of all models. All it does is cause the finger lever to engage sooner. On older models, the finger lever can be moved quite a bit before the first click occurs. QS fixes that. The thumb button on the Centaur and lower levels uses the escape mechanism, which is more like Shimano, since it only allows one cog to be shifted at a time.

    See page 17 of the PDF I've linked. It's still not clear exactly how the thumb button works with a triple FD, but it does say that trimming in the middle ring is the only option. If you build a triple equipped bike, I'd buy a Chorus or Record ergo lever that does not use the escape mechanism. This lever allows the FD cage (fork) to be moved to the right or left on any of the three rings.

    http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/722531...CAPE_05_06.pdf

  13. #13
    titanium junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spunout
    Pull out your ruler and look at 1mm. Now split 1mm up 5 times, that is the difference we're talking about here.
    Huh? I know exactly what a .25 mm is like, as I work with stuff in microns everyday. What I was trying to say is that a 31.8mm clamp is the same as a 32mm clamp due to labeling error from manufacturers.
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  14. #14
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    not quite right either...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grasschopper
    I don't have QS as I run 2006 Record and Centaur groupos...but one thing I do know is that Campy doesn't make a triple in any of the 2007 groupos. QS may NOT work with a triple.
    Triple components have been moved to three new group levels, Champ, Comp and Race, which correspond to Xenon, Veloce and Centaur. All Campy levers can still be used with a triple FD, although the Centaur and lower don't have the superior trim ability that the Chorus and Record lever have.

    You're right that Campy no longer makes Chorus or Record level triple cranks or long cage RDs. They do still offer Record and Chorus medium cage RDs that will handle any triple, except one using a 13-29.

  15. #15
    titanium junkie
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    C-40,

    After reading further, I think you might be right about the difference between the new QS and the Escape mechanism. I should have read the manual thoroughly before doing anything else. However, I was going with what the tech guy from Campy told me but the whole conversation it was kind of fuzzy.

    Anyhow, in digging more into the manual, I think I made error in the way I align the FD cage parallel to the chainring. I aligned the inner cage plate on the right side to the big chainring instead of on the left side (the inner side facing the small ring) to the small chainring so I think why the cable is touching the spring mechanism since the clamp rotated inward bringing the spring mechanism closer to the seat tube. Since the inner plate is not parallel to the outer plate on the FD, it does make a difference how it is aligned to the crankset. In looking at the figures, the backside of the outer cage plate should be curved outward slightly when the left side inner cage plate is parallel to the small chainring. I do not have the bike in front of me so I am going strictly from the figures from Campy.


    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    The QS function only applies to the finger lever of all models. All it does is cause the finger lever to engage sooner. On older models, the finger lever can be moved quite a bit before the first click occurs. QS fixes that. The thumb button on the Centaur and lower levels uses the escape mechanism, which is more like Shimano, since it only allows one cog to be shifted at a time.

    See page 17 of the PDF I've linked. It's still not clear exactly how the thumb button works with a triple FD, but it does say that trimming in the middle ring is the only option. If you build a triple equipped bike, I'd buy a Chorus or Record ergo lever that does not use the escape mechanism. This lever allows the FD cage (fork) to be moved to the right or left on any of the three rings.

    http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/722531...CAPE_05_06.pdf
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

  16. #16
    titanium junkie
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    I forgot to attach the figures...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2007 Campy Centaur and Record QS-campy_front_derailleur-2.jpg  
    Thanks,

    titanium goat

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