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  1. #1
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    6700 r/h shifter died, can you mix 6700 and 6800?

    My bike is full 6700 and the r/h shifter died, I took off the hood and noticed that the spring that holds the pawl in when ratcheting was loose. Lots of corrosion on the spring (and many miles) so I'm not that surprised.
    Of course I had instant dreams of upgrading to 6800 but that's not possible for me right now so I'd like to know if, I was able to find lightly used shifters and front and rear derailleurs, can I use my existing 6700 brakes and compact crank (I think 6750)?
    Rear hub is 11-spd compatible.
    Thanks for any help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

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    https://greenville.craigslist.org/bop/5208686778.html

    alternative option...this guy has been trying to dump his equipment for months. those 5700 shifters will plug and play for you until you can get the cash together for a new group.
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    Yes you can use them, while Shimano will tell you the 6700 and 6800 cranks are not cross compatible but actually they are. I have a 6800 11spd crank on my 10spd 6700 Di2 setup. I have a 6700 10spd crank on my wifes 6800 11spd setup, both shift perfectly fine.
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    Yes, crank and brake would work, but everything else would have to be changed to 11 speed. 6700 and 6800 shifters and derailleurs have different pull ratios.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the help guys.
    My back-up bike is doing the job right now so I think I'll save up until Xmas...I remember some smoking 6800 deals last year and it doesnt look like the euro is getting much stronger anytime soon.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJay74 View Post
    Yes you can use them, while Shimano will tell you the 6700 and 6800 cranks are not cross compatible but actually they are. I have a 6800 11spd crank on my 10spd 6700 Di2 setup. I have a 6700 10spd crank on my wifes 6800 11spd setup, both shift perfectly fine.
    Thanks for posting this. Like the OP, my right Ultegra 6700 lever has decided to stop shifting properly and lubing the bajeebers out of it doesn't make a difference. I've been searching high-and-low for a new right lever, but all I could find is one dealer selling them for $260. Apparently the law of scarcity has started to kick-in on 10-speed components. The other option is buying the pair of levers, but that's still $250+.

    Since I can get the 6800 lever + derailleurs for less than $250, I'd much prefer to go 11-speed (my rear hub is 11-speed compatible). That being said, if the 6700 crank will work with 6800, then an 11-speed upgrade is in my bike's future.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
    Thanks for posting this. Like the OP, my right Ultegra 6700 lever has decided to stop shifting properly and lubing the bajeebers out of it doesn't make a difference. I've been searching high-and-low for a new right lever, but all I could find is one dealer selling them for $260. Apparently the law of scarcity has started to kick-in on 10-speed components. The other option is buying the pair of levers, but that's still $250+.

    Since I can get the 6800 lever + derailleurs for less than $250, I'd much prefer to go 11-speed (my rear hub is 11-speed compatible). That being said, if the 6700 crank will work with 6800, then an 11-speed upgrade is in my bike's future.
    You'll need shifter, rear derailleur, cassette and chain. The chain is thinner to accommodate the tight gearing on the cassette.
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  8. #8
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    I opted to purchase a "shift lever bracket" like this one for $91 rather than upgrade to Ultegra 6800... it was the least expensive route to go to get the shifting problem fixed w/o replacing all sorts of stuff.

    6700 r/h shifter died, can you mix 6700 and 6800?-s-l1600.jpg
    Last edited by PoorInRichfield; 07-07-2018 at 09:36 AM.

  9. #9
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    "The simplest answer is most often correct" - Occam's razor
    After waiting weeks for my new right shift lever to arrive, I started taking off the old lever only to notices some stray strands of wire sticking out that I didn't notice before...

    6700 r/h shifter died, can you mix 6700 and 6800?-img_20180714_161221.jpg

    Needless to say, the shift lever is just fine; the shift cable had begun to fray. Nothing like spending over $100 to fix a $10 problem.

  10. #10
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
    After waiting weeks for my new right shift lever to arrive, I started taking off the old lever only to notices some stray strands of wire sticking out that I didn't notice before...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Needless to say, the shift lever is just fine; the shift cable had begun to fray. Nothing like spending over $100 to fix a $10 problem.
    It's very rare that a Shimano shifter actually breaks. It's nearly always the 'fraying cable' thing. Expensive lesson to learn.
    This is something you can confirm visually w/o taking the cable out or the lever off the bike...just pull the hood back. Your clue is that the shifting goes really wacky, especially upshifting (to harder gears).
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
    Needless to say, the shift lever is just fine; the shift cable had begun to fray. Nothing like spending over $100 to fix a $10 problem.
    Probably a blessing in disguise if your ride a ton. I've had two shimano shifers just die. Not sure but I'd guess both were around the 25,000 miles mark. And there's always the crash possibility.
    Never hurts to have a spare especially considering the more time passes the greater chance you won't be able to find one.

    But yeah, definitely an expensive way to learn always check for cable fraying first. Or better yet replace the cable before that's a possibility to rule it out in advance.

    By the way if you really regret having the other shifter I imagine you could return it and/or sell it close to what you paid on ebay. There's always a market for past year's right shifters.

  12. #12
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    I just did this Shimano 105 shift cable replacement job yesterday...
    I was watching the inner cable, last inspection it showed some wear, so it was time.

    Here's how I inspect the right cable without removing it -
    1) go to small front, small rear.
    2) remove the chain from the front sprocket, so it is loose (don't break the chain, just remove from the socket teeth)
    3) remove the loose chain from the rear sprocket, hold it out of the way
    4) push in the rear derailleur, while unseating the rear shift cable housing from the rear chain stay

    You now have a loose shift cable, still attached to the rear derailleur.
    Note you can also remove the rear wheel instead of 1), 2), 3) above.

    5) Pull back the front of the right hood to expose the area underneath the shifter - this is where the inner cable comes out. Look for a small round hole. Make sure the shifter is in the smallest gear position, or it will not come out.
    6) Pull back the shift cable housing from the downtube mount, to expose the inner shift cable. push it forward, to allow 3-4 inches to come out the bottom of shifter.

    If the inner cable is OK and not frayed, it will come out fine.
    If you suspect a cable problem due to poor shifting, and the cable refuses to come out, you likely have a frayed cable. You'll need to replace it.

    On my bikes, I clean the inner cable with alcohol and use a very light coat of cable lube. If it is almost worn out, you'll see the coating gone (if it had a coating) and a short area about 1-2 inch long where the outer strands of steel cable are starting to wear flat. This is time to replace the cable. This wear area is about 1-2 inches back from the end of the inner cable.

    It takes me about 2 minutes tops to do this inspection, and lets you see the actual inner cable where it will eventually break if you let it go.

    Give it a try, it's pretty easy, even without a work stand. I do it with the bike leaning against the wall sometimes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    I just did this Shimano 105 shift cable replacement job yesterday...
    I was watching the inner cable, last inspection it showed some wear, so it was time.

    Here's how I inspect the right cable without removing it -
    1) go to small front, small rear.
    2) remove the chain from the front sprocket, so it is loose (don't break the chain, just remove from the socket teeth)
    3) remove the loose chain from the rear sprocket, hold it out of the way
    4) push in the rear derailleur, while unseating the rear shift cable housing from the rear chain stay

    You now have a loose shift cable, still attached to the rear derailleur.
    Note you can also remove the rear wheel instead of 1), 2), 3) above.

    5) Pull back the front of the right hood to expose the area underneath the shifter - this is where the inner cable comes out. Look for a small round hole. Make sure the shifter is in the smallest gear position, or it will not come out.
    6) Pull back the shift cable housing from the downtube mount, to expose the inner shift cable. push it forward, to allow 3-4 inches to come out the bottom of shifter.

    If the inner cable is OK and not frayed, it will come out fine.
    If you suspect a cable problem due to poor shifting, and the cable refuses to come out, you likely have a frayed cable. You'll need to replace it.

    On my bikes, I clean the inner cable with alcohol and use a very light coat of cable lube. If it is almost worn out, you'll see the coating gone (if it had a coating) and a short area about 1-2 inch long where the outer strands of steel cable are starting to wear flat. This is time to replace the cable. This wear area is about 1-2 inches back from the end of the inner cable.

    It takes me about 2 minutes tops to do this inspection, and lets you see the actual inner cable where it will eventually break if you let it go.

    Give it a try, it's pretty easy, even without a work stand. I do it with the bike leaning against the wall sometimes.
    That's a lot more work than you need to do. And it only works on bikes w/ external cables.

    On bikes w/ the newer (under the bar tape housing) shifters you can just pull the hood back and look at the cable. If the shifting is getting very hard to adjust you have another clue.

    If you have an older bike w/ external cables and an old Shimano shifter that doesn't have the shift housing under the tape you can do what you've posted.

    Or...

    You can shift to the big cog and then stop pedaling the bike. Shift back down to the small cog position w/o pedaling and the cable will get loose. If you have slotted housing stops you can pull the chainstay end of the rear der housing out of the stop and have a bunch of slack. Then pull the right brake lever to expose the cable hole, pull the housing back and shove the cable out of the shifter a couple inches. Take a look then go from there. Doing it this way allows the chain to stay on the big cog and hold the derailleur in the low position giving you slack in the cable more easily. Remember...this only works on the older Shimano shifters. On the new ones just look. You can easily see the cable. On the 11 speed shifters you have to pull the little cover out, but that's it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    That's a lot more work than you need to do. And it only works on bikes w/ external cables.

    On bikes w/ the newer (under the bar tape housing) shifters you can just pull the hood back and look at the cable.

    If you have an older bike w/ external cables and an old Shimano shifter that doesn't have the shift housing under the tape you can do what you've posted.
    This is my normal procedure on both my Felt bikes, and both have shift housing under the tape. One has external cables, the other has internal cables. This is not conjecture, it's how I have inspected / cleaned lubed the cables for a good while now.

    On the idea of looking at the cable from the top (lift the hood) -
    This works provided whoever installed the housings did NOT use the Shimano 6800 type (supplied with cable kits) housing end ferrules for the shifters. These ferrules have an extended end that goes into the shifter body, and covers the inner cable in that area.
    Also, you are viewing the TOP of the cable. So you really only see if it's in serious trouble, about to let go, with broken stands.

    If you actually pull the cable out the front/bottom, you can see the cable underside, where it wears. By keeping an eye on the wear, you can see, with plenty of time, the cable get worse before the stands start breaking.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Or...
    If you have slotted housing stops you can pull the chainstay end of the rear der housing out of the stop and have a bunch of slack. Then pull the right brake lever to expose the cable hole, pull the housing back and shove the cable out of the shifter a couple inches. Take a look then go from there. Doing it this way allows the chain to stay on the big cog and hold the derailleur in the low position giving you slack in the cable more easily. Remember...this only works on the older Shimano shifters. On the new ones just look. You can easily see the cable. On the 11 speed shifters you have to pull the little cover out, but that's it.
    Yes, I guess I assumed everyone has slotted rear chainstay housing stops. If you don't, you can't get the cable slack needed to do this. But if you do, you can use whatever method you prefer to get the slack needed to remove the rear housing.

    Once the rear housing is free, independent of internal or external cables, you can push the cable out the shifter bottom from the downtube stop.

    Yes, this takes maybe 1 minute more time than just pulling the hood back and observing from the top. But as above, doing that only tells you if the damage is already done, i.e. it's too late as strands have broken.
    As per the post above, I like to clean the inner cable and apply lube while it's hanging out there. It works for me. And I've never been stranded with a broken cable, after 20K miles. I'm on my 3rd set of cables between the 2 bikes (both Shimano 10 speeds).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    Yes, I guess I assumed everyone has slotted rear chainstay housing stops. If you don't, you can't get the cable slack needed to do this. But if you do, you can use whatever method you prefer to get the slack needed to remove the rear housing.

    Once the rear housing is free, independent of internal or external cables, you can push the cable out the shifter bottom from the downtube stop.

    Yes, this takes maybe 1 minute more time than just pulling the hood back and observing from the top. But as above, doing that only tells you if the damage is already done, i.e. it's too late as strands have broken.
    As per the post above, I like to clean the inner cable and apply lube while it's hanging out there. It works for me. And I've never been stranded with a broken cable, after 20K miles. I'm on my 3rd set of cables between the 2 bikes (both Shimano 10 speeds).
    Huh? If you have internal cables the only thing you can do is take a look at the cable in the shifter. You can't push it out of the shifter.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Huh? If you have internal cables the only thing you can do is take a look at the cable in the shifter. You can't push it out of the shifter.
    I must be misunderstanding or you didn't quite say what you meant. I've never dealt with internal but certainly you can remove cables to replace them, and to have a look just stop a few inches into that process?


    Anyway, I'd be careful about relying on visual inspection. I think they might start to wear from the inside out. That's the only way I can explain having one look perfectly fine and then totally blow up about 80 miles into the next ride.

    As far as I can tell the outside of the cables only hit plastic inside the shifters. So it would seem to makes sense that the individual strands wear each other faster on the inside than what you can see on the outside.

    Either way, I've definitely learned the hard way recently not to rely on a visual inspection. They can go from looking perfect to blowing up real quick.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I must be misunderstanding or you didn't quite say what you meant. I've never dealt with internal but certainly you can remove cables to replace them, and to have a look just stop a few inches into that process?


    Anyway, I'd be careful about relying on visual inspection. I think they might start to wear from the inside out. That's the only way I can explain having one look perfectly fine and then totally blow up about 80 miles into the next ride.

    As far as I can tell the outside of the cables only hit plastic inside the shifters. So it would seem to makes sense that the individual strands wear each other faster on the inside than what you can see on the outside.

    Either way, I've definitely learned the hard way recently not to rely on a visual inspection. They can go from looking perfect to blowing up real quick.
    Going by what he was saying about not undoing the cable anchor at the rear derailleur and just undoing the housing from the stop on and externally routed frame...you can't do the same thing on a frame w/ internal routing. You'd have to under the cable from the derailleur and you'd probably not have enough cable to get the end out of the shifter to inspect it.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Going by what he was saying about not undoing the cable anchor at the rear derailleur and just undoing the housing from the stop on and externally routed frame...you can't do the same thing on a frame w/ internal routing. You'd have to under the cable from the derailleur and you'd probably not have enough cable to get the end out of the shifter to inspect it.
    oh, yeah, for sure. Sorry I missed that part.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Huh? If you have internal cables the only thing you can do is take a look at the cable in the shifter. You can't push it out of the shifter.
    I have done this numerous times, and it works fine. As stated before, this is not "maybe it will work", it's "what I have done repeatedly", yes, on internal cables.
    The only case where it would be a problem is for someone that ran full length cable liners, i.e. at the exit point from the top of downtube, the inner cable would be covered so you couln't push it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    I have done this numerous times, and it works fine. As stated before, this is not "maybe it will work", it's "what I have done repeatedly", yes, on internal cables.
    The only case where it would be a problem is for someone that ran full length cable liners, i.e. at the exit point from the top of downtube, the inner cable would be covered so you couln't push it out.
    It's my understanding that not only does the cable break at the button but 2 inches back as well. Can you really push out that much cable with internally routed cables?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Going by what he was saying about not undoing the cable anchor at the rear derailleur and just undoing the housing from the stop on and externally routed frame...you can't do the same thing on a frame w/ internal routing. You'd have to under the cable from the derailleur and you'd probably not have enough cable to get the end out of the shifter to inspect it.
    From the part in italics above, I take it you never tried it? Also, using your previous procedure (going to big in the rear then shifting to small without pedaling) does not provide as much cable slack as going to small small and removing the chain from the front. Maybe this is the difference, why it works for me, not for you.

    On my external cabled bikes, the upper downtube housing stops are not slotted, so you can't remove the housing to free the inner cable there, like at the back. So basically it's the same procedure for internal and external cables -
    1) Undo the housing at the rear chainstay to provide slack
    2) Pull the housing from upper downtube stop (where it goes into the frame in internal cables) to expose the inner cable
    3) Push on the inner cable from there to expose maybe 4-5 inches out the bottom of the shifter. It is that area, in the 4-5 inches, that all the damage occurs.

    You need to look closely at the underside of the cable for damage. If you have older eyes like me, you may need a magnifying glass, (that's what I use).
    As before, on coated cables, after many months of use, the coating is worn away down to bare steel, and the steel is starting to wear flat. So it is definitely wearing through the cable, and assume it is sliding over a hard steel surface. Those Shimano shifters are heavy, there is some steel in there.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    From the part in italics above, I take it you never tried it? Also, using your previous procedure (going to big in the rear then shifting to small without pedaling) does not provide as much cable slack as going to small small and removing the chain from the front. Maybe this is the difference, why it works for me, not for you.

    On my external cabled bikes, the upper downtube housing stops are not slotted, so you can't remove the housing to free the inner cable there, like at the back. So basically it's the same procedure for internal and external cables -
    1) Undo the housing at the rear chainstay to provide slack
    2) Pull the housing from upper downtube stop (where it goes into the frame in internal cables) to expose the inner cable
    3) Push on the inner cable from there to expose maybe 4-5 inches out the bottom of the shifter. It is that area, in the 4-5 inches, that all the damage occurs.

    You need to look closely at the underside of the cable for damage. If you have older eyes like me, you may need a magnifying glass, (that's what I use).
    As before, on coated cables, after many months of use, the coating is worn away down to bare steel, and the steel is starting to wear flat. So it is definitely wearing through the cable, and assume it is sliding over a hard steel surface. Those Shimano shifters are heavy, there is some steel in there.
    If the cable is internal you CAN'T undo it from the stop on the chainstay because there isn't one. Believe me...I've been doing this for over 25 years...I know what I'm doing. How can pulling the chain off the chainrings have any effect on the rear derailleur? Not all external frames have slotted stops on the downtube, most have barrel adjusters so you can't undo the housing there either. I get the feeling your experience is w/ your bikes only. My experience is not quite so limited.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    Yes, I guess I assumed everyone has slotted rear chainstay housing stops. If you don't, you can't get the cable slack needed to do this.
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    If the cable is internal you CAN'T undo it from the stop on the chainstay because there isn't one. Believe me...I've been doing this for over 25 years...I know what I'm doing. How can pulling the chain off the chainrings have any effect on the rear derailleur? Not all external frames have slotted stops on the downtube, most have barrel adjusters so you can't undo the housing there either. I get the feeling your experience is w/ your bikes only. My experience is not quite so limited.
    OK man, I throw in the towel. As I already said above, without slotted rear chainstay stops, this won't work. My internal cabled Felt bike has that feature. The cable exits under the bottom bracket and is now external, goes to a rear stay slotted stop. So it works fine.

    I'll not bother again. You know, I feel like I'm being minimized here for trying to provide a few tips that might help people. So not much encouragement here to post anything again, especially from someone who assumes they are, by default, always right.

  25. #25
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    Where have I disagreed w/ what you're doing on your bike? I'm saying that not all bikes are like that and some of the methods you've described aren't physically possible. What you do on your bike works great, I'm sure. All I'm saying is that I've worked on just about everything out there and those methods don't work on a lot of bikes. If you're going to get all 'minimized' because of that, oh well. People rip on me all the time here, it's not that big of a deal. After all it's just the internet.
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