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  1. #26
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    That cable-breaking-in-the-shifter thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    They did address it. See cx's post above. They made it easier to repair the failure... rather than do something to prevent the failure.
    That's not really addressing a flawed design.

    Though, maybe they improved it on the 105, like on Di2. The DA had some issues, then they improved on the Ultegra version
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibericb View Post
    So what is a reasonable expected lifetime for these cables?
    If you're asking about the breaking inside the shifter issue it's not unique to 'these cables'. It's the shifters.

    When I had one break it was at about 7000 miles. The next issue I caught some minor fraying inside so didn't have to deal with it being snapped off and that was somewhere around 6k. I think that's farily consistant with when most people break them and have fraying but of course shifting habits and probably varied cable tension would be factors.

    You definitely want to replace them before there's a problem though. I'd guess 4k is probably a good conservative time to do that. Sometimes it's no big deal to replace them post snap off but if little bits of frayed cable make thier way into the works it is a big deal and can kill the shifter so definitly don't wait around until you 'need' to replace them.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    If you're asking about the breaking inside the shifter issue it's not unique to 'these cables'. It's the shifters.

    When I had one break it was at about 7000 miles. The next issue I caught some minor fraying inside so didn't have to deal with it being snapped off and that was somewhere around 6k. I think that's farily consistant with when most people break them and have fraying but of course shifting habits and probably varied cable tension would be factors.

    You definitely want to replace them before there's a problem though. I'd guess 4k is probably a good conservative time to do that. Sometimes it's no big deal to replace them post snap off but if little bits of frayed cable make thier way into the works it is a big deal and can kill the shifter so definitly don't wait around until you 'need' to replace them.
    Thanks! I wasn't previously aware of this problem, but after some searching it appears it is farily widespread, and hits both the 9000 and 6800 shifters about equally. At least that's what other on different sites/forums seem to be experiencing. Some are saying ~3500 miles. Of course it will probably vary based on use and frequency of shifting.

    There is/has been quite an uproar over this, and so far Shimano seems rather indifferent. According to some Shimano released a 9001 updated version in 2013 that didn't really improve the problem.

    I will now be keeping a much closer eye on my 6800 shifters.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    That's not really addressing a flawed design.
    Depends on your point of view. If you're selling expensive cables, they addressed it really well.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibericb View Post
    Thanks! I wasn't previously aware of this problem, but after some searching it appears it is farily widespread, and hits both the 9000 and 6800 shifters about equally. At least that's what other on different sites/forums seem to be experiencing. Some are saying ~3500 miles. Of course it will probably vary based on use and frequency of shifting.
    From what I gather nothing has changed as far as this topic goes but I should have specified that my comments were based on experience with 6700 and 7900.

  6. #31
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    FWIW, I think mine frayed around 5-6k miles. I didn't experience a breakage but just the fraying. It was noticeable in shifting there was a problem so I wouldn't expect a complete failure before signs manifested. Im curious in CX's issue above if the rider ignored shifting problems for a while........

    Also, since Shimano replaced the shifter I was told they changed the design to address this but I can't confirm this.

    For clarification this should also only be a potential problem with mechanical not electric if this was not already clear enough.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimason View Post
    FWIW, I think mine frayed around 5-6k miles. I didn't experience a breakage but just the fraying. It was noticeable in shifting there was a problem so I wouldn't expect a complete failure before signs manifested. Im curious in CX's issue above if the rider ignored shifting problems for a while........

    Also, since Shimano replaced the shifter I was told they changed the design to address this but I can't confirm this.

    For clarification this should also only be a potential problem with mechanical not electric if this was not already clear enough.
    Yes, there were signs before the snap when I had it happen. However they were minor enough (could still shift just not as smooth) to write off as ordinary shifting issues so I addressed it by messing with cable tension, thought I might have had a bent hanger, replace cassette, chain ect.
    Now I know to check the cable but there's probably a lot of people out there who will treat it like ordinary shifting in need of adjustment until it's too late. If I remember correctly it was only a few weeks between not so great shifting and snap.

  8. #33
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    That cable-breaking-in-the-shifter thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Depends on your point of view. If you're selling expensive cables, they addressed it really well.
    From shimano's accountant point of view, they fix is "good"

    Others, it consumers, maybe shimano's engineers, etc....may think otherwise

    May drive some people to SRAM
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  9. #34
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    That cable-breaking-in-the-shifter thing...

    Definitely not an issue with di2. But seriously, in defense of shimano, they are responding to consumer marketing trends ( aero means hiding cables, which causes sharper bends), easier shifting needs lower friction. Engineering in this case prioritizes these considerations over longevity.
    But really, they want you on di2.........

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimason View Post
    FWIW, I think mine frayed around 5-6k miles. I didn't experience a breakage but just the fraying. It was noticeable in shifting there was a problem so I wouldn't expect a complete failure before signs manifested. Im curious in CX's issue above if the rider ignored shifting problems for a while........

    Also, since Shimano replaced the shifter I was told they changed the design to address this but I can't confirm this.

    For clarification this should also only be a potential problem with mechanical not electric if this was not already clear enough.
    He did, but he's so non-mechanical that he ignored it and then it broke. He usually doesn't bring his bike in unless it just flat doesn't work. Or, for a once-a-year overhaul.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimason View Post
    ...
    Also, since Shimano replaced the shifter I was told they changed the design to address this but I can't confirm this.
    According to a number of internet sources (one example here), the 9001 version was a rolling update intended to address the problem. Others subsequently have maintained it didn't really do the job.
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  12. #37
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    I always found that the Jagwire cables shifted more smoothly than the stock 6600 cables. Jagwire on 6600 was also smoother than Shimano on 6700, but I think the entire 6600 system was smoother.

    I also had a 6600 cable break inside the shifter. Never happened with Jagwire.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodboyr View Post
    Definitely not an issue with di2. But seriously, in defense of shimano, they are responding to consumer marketing trends ( aero means hiding cables, which causes sharper bends), easier shifting needs lower friction. Engineering in this case prioritizes these considerations over longevity.
    But really, they want you on di2.........
    agree....

  14. #39
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    My last 2 RDR cables lasted just a hair over 3000 miles before the the shifting started feeling funny, not quite as crisp. Pulled the last one out at 3100 and sure enough, one wire had broken in the cable bundle and that was all it took to make it noticeable to me.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    The one thing that blows me away is how much these silly cables cost. MSRP for shift cables/housing set is $55.99?!? Are you freaking kidding me?
    And i'm sure you've seen the "cost" on just a cable, crazy right? For me to make my margin goals I would have to sell 2 cables for nearly the same price as a complete set.

  16. #41
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    Decided to sell off my 7800 and 7900 components. Wanted to give the 6800 shifters a go. Called Shimano tech to ask about the numerous complaints of cable failures in the 9000 shifters.

    Tech stated that 'some' owners had complained of premature cable failures. He stated Shimano decided to make changes to the cables being produced. Said that Shimano makes the cables and does not purchase them from another manufacturer so they were able to easily make changes.
    It would seem to be an issue of making a cable that was both flexible and had good durability. I suppose as flexibility is increased the possibility for fatigue failure is also increased.

    I asked about the claim that Shimano made changes to the cable routing design used in the 6800 and then the 9001 shifters. He stated that no changes were made to the cable routing design. If you search up the exploded drawings for;
    9000 / 6800 / 9001 / 5800 his comments ring true. The exact same part numbers are used for all (4) designs (the parts associated with routing the shift cable). He did say that the 6800 and 9001 shifters have cosmetic changes when compared to the 9000 shifters. I went to my LBS to have a look see and that seems to be true as well.

    Haven't installed the 6800's yet and have been on my CX bike only.

    In addition, I rode 7800 for years. Yea, they shifted like melted butter and they also broke the rear shift cable about every 5k miles. Always frayed just inside the shifter body where the cable arcs over the barrel. The shifting went soft and I knew it was going to break within a week or so.

    So, CXWRENCH what are you going to install on the customer's bike?

  17. #42
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    I did not read all the posts but the shredding polymer looks a lot like what can happen with Gore cables. It shreds and gums up the works. Some recent Jagwire cables I got have a hard black coating that might come off more like dust or powder, but not in a stringy mess.
    ... 'cuz that's how I roll.

  18. #43
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    Has any tried cables with a higher strand count? Alligator make some with 31 strands. These should be substantially more flexible, and thus last longer before fatiguing.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Evil View Post
    Has any tried cables with a higher strand count? Alligator make some with 31 strands. These should be substantially more flexible, and thus last longer before fatiguing.
    Interesting to read that the difference between my 6500 and 6800 shifting comes off as a trade-off between cable longevity and ease of shifting. I agree with the poster who said consumers prefer function over reliability.

  20. #45
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    Trek_5200, your 6500 shifters have it all goin on, they shift smooth as silk and the cable will outlast any of the newer gen. shifters. I own (2) sets of 6500's and really like them. But alas, vanity prevailed and made me get some of the new crap, (I mean shifters).

  21. #46
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    looigi, which model of Jagwire did you buy?

    Would be great if you could fast forward (6) months and give us a follow up report.

    Would be good to hear from others trying different cables in the 9000 / 6800 / 9001 shifters.
    Some have reported using the Jagwire Ripcords and achieving better longevity.

  22. #47
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    That cable-breaking-in-the-shifter thing...

    I use plain cables and housings with no coating. I lube them with chain lube.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    I've gone about 6k miles (about 2 years at the time) before replacing cables on my 6700 bike.
    Started hearing these horror stories of cables breaking in the shifter and now change them annually, about 3.5k miles.
    I consider it a small price to pay for not having to deal with sram.
    I have now close to 14k miles on my Camp SR11 setup. Cables pretty much look like new. Just sayin...

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirx View Post
    I have now close to 14k miles on my Camp SR11 setup. Cables pretty much look like new. Just sayin...
    Didn't I read that although the new SR11 shifters look about the same on the outside, they have been totally redesigned on the inside?

    Didn't they just redesign their front mech to be like Shimano with the long arm? Didn't they just redesign their rear mech's geometry to be like Shimano too? Even now needing a b-tension screw and the whole works?

    So you might want to hold onto what you have, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this might start happening to the new Campy soon.

  25. #50
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    OMG!!! It took 5 pages to finally get this to a Shimano/Campy argument.
    RBR is slipping. Usually this happens after 2 pages or less.

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