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  1. #151
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    Quite the contrary, since you started hurling insults, and fake alternate facts, one can only see the narcissism on the other side. It was your call to enter the conversation belittling, and with ignorance no less. Somehow, someone skipped science classes or common sense to realize that a chain stretches through a process of pressure and load which, through a steel property known as ductility, wears out the pins in place as well as by stretched the link insert point. Pressure/friction (IV) + load (IV) = Structural Deformation (DV) what you parroquet as 'wear.' Better yet: suspend a 50lbs weight to a chain, wait long enough, years, centuries or millenia, magically, without links ever turning, it will break, enlightening you.
    And our friends at knowit say "the holes that contain the chain's pins elongate over time (go from a circle to an oval) and the cumulative effect makes the chain longer in length." Hmm, layman tr: it stretches; not like a leather shoe, but local deformation.

    Did read some of your other comments in separate posts, same tendency to berate and belittle what exceeds your argumentative capacity, the PMs were right. If you can prove or disprove the argument, you are welcome to do so in a reasonably smart manner. Changing arguments is not the way to do it.

    To finish your argument off, they continue with:

    Depending on who you consult, a chain should be replaced when it has stretched by more than 0.5%. That means 0.0025 of an inch for a single link. Sure a micrometer can measure that small amount, but there's no good place on the chain to place such a precise instrument! Instead, we can measure cumulative stretch, that is the total stretch of the chain among many links since all their small deviations will add up to an amount easier to measure. To keep the math simple, we will look for greater than 1/16 inch stretch over 12 link-pairs before replacing the chain.
    Last edited by Belisarius; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:20 PM.

  2. #152
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    Recommend the Sony sound cancelling ones. May help filter ignoramuses claiming that steel chains or cables do not stretch. Sure, 500 years ago claiming the contrary, doing experiments got people burnt, but we evolved to a smarter process of understanding how the world works, based on empirical testing, proof and reasoning.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
    You are merely reinforcing my point, as I listed Gore (now gone), Yokozuna and Campy as the top, best cable metallurgy on Earth for road bicycles. The only reason I do not run Campy cables is its incompatibility with Shimano levers. But am still kicking myself taking three years of cycling to discover that Campy chains are superlative bar none, and wasting time and money on Shimano chains- not too bad on 10 speeds, but no good on 11 speed cassettes. So sounds to me you have the same Campy 9 speed that my former Italian mentor had (he suddenly passed away last year), he had one 30 year a Campy SR 1986 on his Columbus Genius. He moved it across 3 bikes, and he used to tune up LeMond's bike in Montreal 1970s when he was very young.

    How many mm? Likely a fraction of a mm, barrel knob adjustment. To know exactly you would have needed advanced measurement before mounting it and now. To that, add the fact that your 9 speed levers and rear mech load and work the strands far less than current systems, plus, of course, your personal riding style and total distance. A great steel, like your Campy, expands and contracts under load with a very large number of cycles. Hundreds of thousands? Million? At 30 gear changes/km that is 300 000 cycles every 10 000 kms. Varies per rider. No idea. Stronger riders change less, all climbing/descents force more cycles etc..

    A cheap one can be weeks or one season. There are x2 types of properties and three issues - elastic stretch (so it is often inacurate) and structural stretch, therefore rigid and brittle, and 3d, a combination of both. When the cable is cheap, you get both inaccuracy and snap either in the lever or on the mech. At that point the deformation is easily x1mm plus. Jagwire, for example, their recent black coated one suffers badly from structural stretch. After one week 400 kms, we pulled it and it was permanently bend under the bracket and in the lever. Yoko/Gore no issues at 10,000km mark. However, when you mention Campy cables, a company whom researches its steel with Brembo and Fiat/Ferrari, you are talking a top quality piece of cable with just right elasticity and a surreal resistance to structural stretch, hence it having 28 years or use and enjoyment. However, switch to non Campy brands and be ready for the exotic experience, unless hunting for equivalent parts.
    28 years ago they didn't have 9 speed, let alone 8 speed.

    "A fraction of a millimeter." So, a totally inconsequential amount.
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  4. #154
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
    Recommend the Sony sound cancelling ones. May help filter ignoramuses claiming that steel chains or cables do not stretch. Sure, 500 years ago claiming the contrary, doing experiments got people burnt, but we evolved to a smarter process of understanding how the world works, based on empirical testing, proof and reasoning.
    Explain how the chain plates stretch enough to measure but through some magic the holes don't get bigger and the pins don't fall out. Think hard.
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  5. #155
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    I'd like to see the numbers on how far a chain stretches with 50lb wt. The exact distance please! Oh yes, according to you it is time variable, so let's say 1 week.

    I'm thinking a lot of structural engineers out there are getting worried their bldgs are about to 'stretch' down.

    Someone is having way too much coffee in the morning.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I do. I have myself had it happen with my 5700 and know someone who has this problem with hers consistently at 1500 miles or less.



    Do you mind if I ask you why you want to change from a triple to a compact? Are you having trouble with front shifting? I have an older road bike with 5600 groupo and a triple on the front. Shifts flawlessly and shifters never fray cables.
    Its not me. Its a friends bike. He wants to do an upgrade. He said he doesnt like the triple and wants to change it. I didnt really press on the details. Just doing him a favor turning the wrenches as he is not very mechanically inclined. He has had the bike a long time and has never replaced a cable (or done any maint from what I can tell) LOL

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottma View Post
    Its not me. Its a friends bike. He wants to do an upgrade. He said he doesnt like the triple and wants to change it. I didnt really press on the details. Just doing him a favor turning the wrenches as he is not very mechanically inclined. He has had the bike a long time and has never replaced a cable (or done any maint from what I can tell) LOL
    OK. I'm always perplexed at people who say they don't like triples. Some say doubles shift smoother, though I didn't find this to be true until the 5800/6800 came out.

    If your friend has never changed his cables and is itching for a new groupo, a fresh set of cables and housings may very well change his mind. Cables are everything when it comes to smooth shifting.
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