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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by malanb View Post
    Campagonolo + ebay = double win
    The 99 - 06 Ergo's are getting up there in price. OTT, I have to agree.
    1995 Waterford 1200
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    Plus a host of old bikes too many to list.

  2. #52
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    I bought a very lightly used bike last year that came with SRAM Red. My last bike had Dura Ace 7700 9 speed, and I've used some older Shimano Ultegra, 105 and Campy Chorus and Veloce as well. I've given the SRAM a good amount of time to decide whether I like it or not, and I am seriously considering going back to Shimano. Not so much because there is anything wrong with the SRAM...it works very well, but I just prefer the shifting on Shimano. Too many years on it I guess. I do also find that I have more "chain noise" with SRAM than Shimano, but I've heard that is normal, and may be due to the cassette design. As some posters have said, the shape of the hoods is a big deciding factor between the three, and again, I prefer Shimano.
    I'm not a racer, just someone who loves to ride bikes, and am actually riding my mountain bikes (AM and DH) more these days than my road bike. The prices that used Red components are selling for is making the Ultegra 6500 bits in my parts box look more attractive at this point! The difference in weight and the extra cog isn't worth the cost for me, and the mountain bikes go through parts WAY faster than the road bike!
    Anyway, all three have their plus and minus as others have posted here. I'm not a weight weenie either (I usually have an extra pound or two on my body) and I've not found a huge difference between 105, Ultegra, and to some extent Dura Ace.

    My 2 cents...

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    OK, without trying to start a war, which company gives more bang for the buck? Now I'm riding a 10 sp Campy Daytona and Veloce bike. My brother has a Shimano 9 sp. We're going to put together a Surly Pacer for my wife this winter. SRAM really looks like a go but I'm heavily invested in Campy. After Campy dumbed down their shifters except for Chorus and Record, there really is no difference between the way they work and SRAM and Shimano do. You can't buy individual parts to rebuild either.

    I dumped all my Campy 8 sp years ago when they discontinued support for them and upgraded to 10 sp. Now 10 sp seems to be on it's way to extinction.

    Personally, I'm to the point that I don't care what I ride as long as it works and is affordable.

    SRAM equals a big big big pile of plastic junk. My ratchet in the right lever broke (as it was the case for so many other SRAM users).

    Shifting with the left lever (front derailleur) needs so much force. I wait now until the left plastic pile of junk snaps apart. I wouldn't be surprised a woman would have problems putting in so much force when shifting from the smaller to the larger front ring. I don't know if 100 Gore cables and housing would improve the situation. The front derailleur is surely not the result of engineering because lever action (there where one clamps the cable at the pitch bolt) is definitely not there especially in combination with a wobbly plastic lever mechnism which does not help in overcomming the lever action. Must be the engineering result from a 16 year old high school boy with spots in his face.

    And if you love your wife: Cozy Beehive: SRAM Force Brake Housing Failure

    By the way: the first generation of Rivals dating back to 2007 where so much better (okay the longevity of the surface finish was bad and simply a humiliation) because it had some more metal parts in it. Front shifting was no problem and butterly smooth.

  4. #54
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    Couple of years back, I actually rode SRAM, Campag, Shimano and DT shifters in the same year.

    All worked fine - though some would have told you that a Campag shifter/rear derailleur can't work with a Shimano cassette, which I found to be not really true ;)

    In the end, SRAM and Campag were dealt with by Ebay and I'm back with my first choice of the 'old' external shifter cable Shimanos.

    There is no need for a 'war' here - as my Campag interest went back to when I did road racing 'somewhat seriously' in the 1970s, I'd have been happy to have gone over to their stuff.

    BUT.

    When you go for a bike ride, you spend a sizable amount of your time holding your brake levers and shifting gears with them.

    If you don't care for either use, you are not going to be happy. I offer that's more important than following fashion or doing what marketing tells you. All three worked fine for me - my bikes are assembled and maintained by someone very dedicated to their working well ;) But I spent more time with the SRAM trying to get the levers somewhere comfortable to hold, didn't care for their single shift lever and found that everyone knowing when I changed gear thanks to the noise they made somewhat irritating after my Shimano rigs.

    Similarly with Campag - having to reach around to the thumb button was irritating, plus my hands and the lever shape and size didn't get on at all.

    As for the usual squabble over longevity and ability to service levers. My best Shimano set-up was bought just after they 'invented' 10 speed, now have a fair mileage in their 8 or so years of service and shift the quietest in the fleet. Specialist tools needed to service my Shimano gear are minimal, it works, I find them comfortable in all facets of use.

    Even better, my Spousal Unit loves the Shimano Ultegra triple rig on her beloved Gunnar. That is an immense plus!

    Now - how can fashion or marketing top that?

    Regards

    Dereck

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    one of the reason why microshift is the "best bang for the buck" is it does a little bit of everything well and its very inexpensive. ultimately, it shifts the bike, i found the hoods comfortable, and if you don't like the whole brake lever swinging to shift like shimano or the thumb tab like Campy and Sora you have a rigid brake lever with 2 different buttons for shifting. it's a pretty nice setup. lets face it, the original question was bang for the buck. Microshift will make your bike shift as precise as any of the other systems and shifters, FD, and RD will only set you back $175-200.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by motobecane69 View Post
    one of the reason why microshift is the "best bang for the buck" is it does a little bit of everything well and its very inexpensive. ultimately, it shifts the bike, i found the hoods comfortable, and if you don't like the whole brake lever swinging to shift like shimano or the thumb tab like Campy and Sora you have a rigid brake lever with 2 different buttons for shifting. it's a pretty nice setup. lets face it, the original question was bang for the buck. Microshift will make your bike shift as precise as any of the other systems and shifters, FD, and RD will only set you back $175-200.
    It does a little bit of everything but nothing well.

    Ahhh, mediocrity.

    Bang for your buck? Shimano 105, Sram APEX, Campy Athena.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by motobecane69 View Post
    i disagree, i think it does a lot of things well. and it's weight is on par with ultegra too
    Disagree all you want. It's crap compared to the other options on the table.
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  8. #58
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    i disagree, i think it does a lot of things well. and it's weight is on par with ultegra too

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    Disagree all you want. It's crap compared to the other options on the table.
    bang for the buck knucklehead. 105 and apex brifters are both $250 you can have microshift brifters, fd and rd for $75 less than that. and they work as good as 105

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    Quote Originally Posted by motobecane69 View Post
    bang for the buck knucklehead. 105 and apex brifters are both $250 you can have microshift brifters, fd and rd for $75 less than that. and they work as good as 105
    Sure they do. Saving $75 is great when the shift levers are tiny and cheap, the construction is junk and the action is stiff and clunky. Not to mention unsightly and bulbous. Funny, 105 is none of those. Neither is Apex, and Campy is far from any of those.

    I'd expect no less than the bottom of the barrel from someone with the name "Motobecane69" who thinks "lugged carbon bikes are ugly."

    There are times to settle and times not to. Shifting is not one of those times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    Sure they do. Saving $75 is great when the shift levers are tiny and cheap, the construction is junk and the action is stiff and clunky. Not to mention unsightly and bulbous. Funny, 105 is none of those. Neither is Apex, and Campy is far from any of those.

    I'd expect no less than the bottom of the barrel from someone with the name "Motobecane69" who thinks "lugged carbon bikes are ugly."

    There are times to settle and times not to. Shifting is not one of those times.
    lugged carbon bikes are retarded looking in my opinion. What does the name Motobecane69 have to do with anything, my bike probably has better components than yours does.
    You've probably never even used Microshift. First of all the levers aren't tiny, one is rather large, the other is smaller and well placed, my index finger pad is the size of a penny, why would I need a shift lever much larger that. The construction is as solid as anything else I"ve ridden if not more solid and perhaps you have a shitty mechanic because my microshift shifted flawlessly when it was mated to both Ultegra drivetrain parts and microshift parts. the guy is trying to build an inexpensive project bike. $75 savings is significant. Btw, if you had a brain, you would realize the savings is more than $75. 105 brifters are $250 Microshift brifters fd and rd are $175. You still need to get a FD and a RD to run your 105 setup so lets tack on another $100. So looks like we are saving $175. The op can buy a set of wheels for his project with that savings and still have a bike the shifts well.

    105 is great, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm simply saying that if you are talking value, it's not so much better than Microshift. neither is ultegra for that matter. Microshift just works too damn well at what it's supposed to do and is too cheap for anyone to beat them in the value dept.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by motobecane69 View Post
    lugged carbon bikes are retarded looking in my opinion. What does the name Motobecane69 have to do with anything, my bike probably has better components than yours does.
    You've probably never even used Microshift. First of all the levers aren't tiny, one is rather large, the other is smaller and well placed, my index finger pad is the size of a penny, why would I need a shift lever much larger that. The construction is as solid as anything else I"ve ridden if not more solid and perhaps you have a shitty mechanic because my microshift shifted flawlessly when it was mated to both Ultegra drivetrain parts and microshift parts. the guy is trying to build an inexpensive project bike. $75 savings is significant. Btw, if you had a brain, you would realize the savings is more than $75. 105 brifters are $250 Microshift brifters fd and rd are $175. You still need to get a FD and a RD to run your 105 setup so lets tack on another $100. So looks like we are saving $175. The op can buy a set of wheels for his project with that savings and still have a bike the shifts well.

    105 is great, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm simply saying that if you are talking value, it's not so much better than Microshift. neither is ultegra for that matter. Microshift just works too damn well at what it's supposed to do and is too cheap for anyone to beat them in the value dept.
    Yes. I'm sure my Red is garbage compared to your microsh!t. And I'm sure my lugged Look is garbage compared to your Motobecane. Really, what are you, six? That's the kind of insult a 2nd grader uses.

    I've ridden Shimano, I've ridden Campy, I currently ride Sram. I've also ridden Microsh!t. It sucks. The feel is awkward, the parts are cheap, the design with multiple levers on one side is flat out awful. The hood design is horrendous. Overall, it is exactly what you say it is: cheap. Bottom line.

    And furthermore, your numbers are out in left field. If you want to talk about ebaying parts (since you're such a cheap bastard) you can find 105 parts on ebay for dirt cheap. I've seen full groups go for $300-$350, and that is damn sure a better deal than Microsh!t. All it takes is patience, which nobody seems to have these days. And finally, if you're going to talk about saving $175 and putting it towards wheels, let's tell you something else: you're not going to get any improvement for an extra $175, so spend it on a drivetrain that you can take with you to your next bike. Hopefully it's not a POS Bikes Direct bike, but I digress...
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    Yes. I'm sure my Red is garbage compared to your microsh!t. And I'm sure my lugged Look is garbage compared to your Motobecane. Really, what are you, six? That's the kind of insult a 2nd grader uses.

    I've ridden Shimano, I've ridden Campy, I currently ride Sram. I've also ridden Microsh!t. It sucks. The feel is awkward, the parts are cheap, the design with multiple levers on one side is flat out awful. The hood design is horrendous. Overall, it is exactly what you say it is: cheap. Bottom line.

    And furthermore, your numbers are out in left field. If you want to talk about ebaying parts (since you're such a cheap bastard) you can find 105 parts on ebay for dirt cheap. I've seen full groups go for $300-$350, and that is damn sure a better deal than Microsh!t. All it takes is patience, which nobody seems to have these days. And finally, if you're going to talk about saving $175 and putting it towards wheels, let's tell you something else: you're not going to get any improvement for an extra $175, so spend it on a drivetrain that you can take with you to your next bike. Hopefully it's not a POS Bikes Direct bike, but I digress...
    Why digress now?

    Let the hate flow!

  14. #64
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    Seriously, are we comparing Microshift and Motobecanes to proper groups and bikes? These are fine if you can't afford anything else as it's better to ride crap than not ride at all... but otherwise...

    DAN GEROUS

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    I'm looking at the bikes in my living room right now. Two have sram red, the other dura ace. That said, there are pro teams riding Microshift. Pro riders are winning races with those shifters. It's cheap, functional and light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    I'm looking at the bikes in my living room right now. Two have sram red, the other dura ace. That said, there are pro teams riding Microshift. Pro riders are winning races with those shifters. It's cheap, functional and light.
    They are PAID to ride what the sponsors PAY them to ride.

    Do you think they'd pick it if they had a choice?
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  17. #67
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    Pros will endure whatever they're paid to ride... and the legs, in 99.9% of the cases, are still the deciding factor. We, as paying customers, don't have to endure products that don't feel right, that wont last...

    Value shouldn't be just evaluated by price and specs, value drops a lot when something cheap only lasts a season... or everytime your friends have to wait because you have to fix, adjust, hack crappy parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    They are PAID to ride what the sponsors PAY them to ride.

    Do you think they'd pick it if they had a choice?
    Honestly? No. But they do have a choice for which team they ride...

    And the reason why I know any of this is because my friend is a pro, riding microshift. A week ago we were on a ride, talking about his microshift. I asked what he though. His answer?

    "I'll focus on the good: It's light."

    My reply: "It's not Di2, is it?"

    And we both laughed, because his last team equipped BH G5s with Di2. We all know that microshift can't hold a candle to the top grouppos from the big three.


    What's the point? Why did I even bring up the fact that pro riders are winning races and tooling around on Microshift bikes?

    The point is that the stuff actually works. His bike didn't fall apart during the ride. He still crushed it at the sprints. My sram red s-works couldn't out shift his microshift rig up the grades. He didn't have any mechanical issues. It's functional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    Yes. I'm sure my Red is garbage compared to your microsh!t. And I'm sure my lugged Look is garbage compared to your Motobecane. Really, what are you, six? That's the kind of insult a 2nd grader uses.

    I've ridden Shimano, I've ridden Campy, I currently ride Sram. I've also ridden Microsh!t. It sucks. The feel is awkward, the parts are cheap, the design with multiple levers on one side is flat out awful. The hood design is horrendous. Overall, it is exactly what you say it is: cheap. Bottom line.

    And furthermore, your numbers are out in left field. If you want to talk about ebaying parts (since you're such a cheap bastard) you can find 105 parts on ebay for dirt cheap. I've seen full groups go for $300-$350, and that is damn sure a better deal than Microsh!t. All it takes is patience, which nobody seems to have these days. And finally, if you're going to talk about saving $175 and putting it towards wheels, let's tell you something else: you're not going to get any improvement for an extra $175, so spend it on a drivetrain that you can take with you to your next bike. Hopefully it's not a POS Bikes Direct bike, but I digress...
    my numbers are out of left field???? really? go onto nashbar.com brand new microshift shifters for $120 fd and RD $30 each. not to mention you will either get free shipping or anywhere from 10-20% off that price. Your talking about buying used parts or hoping to score a deal on takeoff 105 parts for $300-350. I don't know what you mean about not getting any improvement for an extra $175. IF your building up a bike from scratch and trying to make it inexpensive but functional, you can buy a set of Aksium's for $175. thats not too bad for a project beater bike or a second bike, or an introductory level bike for one's spouse.
    Yeah, you could invest it in a drivetrain that you won't want to take with you to your next bike because your going to want something newer, better, or latest and greatest while wheels last tend to last years and years. As for pro's riding what they are paid to ride, they aint gettin paid that much to ride that stuff, ultimately they aren't gonna ride something if it won't give them a chance to win on it. just like golf, golfers are gonna be happy to take money and an endorsement deal but they aren't gonna do it at the expense of being able to win tourneys

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    Quote Originally Posted by motobecane69 View Post
    my numbers are out of left field???? really? go onto nashbar.com brand new microshift shifters for $120 fd and RD $30 each. not to mention you will either get free shipping or anywhere from 10-20% off that price. Your talking about buying used parts or hoping to score a deal on takeoff 105 parts for $300-350. I don't know what you mean about not getting any improvement for an extra $175. IF your building up a bike from scratch and trying to make it inexpensive but functional, you can buy a set of Aksium's for $175. thats not too bad for a project beater bike or a second bike, or an introductory level bike for one's spouse.
    Yeah, you could invest it in a drivetrain that you won't want to take with you to your next bike because your going to want something newer, better, or latest and greatest while wheels last tend to last years and years. As for pro's riding what they are paid to ride, they aint gettin paid that much to ride that stuff, ultimately they aren't gonna ride something if it won't give them a chance to win on it. just like golf, golfers are gonna be happy to take money and an endorsement deal but they aren't gonna do it at the expense of being able to win tourneys
    Aksiums would be shameful to take to another bike. I'd sooner take a 105 drivetrain to another bike than those pieces of junk.

    I bolded part of your reply to show just how clueless you are. You do realize that most pros out there could win on downtube shifters and toe clips, right? You do realize that sponsors pay big money to put those parts on bikes for pros to ride? Because a pro rides it doesn't mean that it's a good product (case in point: R-Sys wheels.)

    You're proving without a doubt that you're clueless when it comes to components (likely because you've never ridden anything but crap.) If you accept garbage on your bikes, that's perfectly fine (and again, since it's a motobecane, I don't expect much) but not everyone will sink to the level of junk to save a couple bucks. Most people have far higher standards for their drivetrain components than you do, probably because they've ridden and understand the difference between garbage (microsh!t) and quality (S/S/C.)
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    Rob,

    On what basis are you calling Microshift garbage? Do you know of it breaking down? Are there any known issues?

    I'd pick Microshift over Sora, Tiagra or 2300. It's a tie with new 105 imo. I'd pick new microshift over used 105 or most anything older than five or ten years. But that's just me: When it comes to components, I think new parts are almost always better than used (& abused).


    Ultimately...

    If I were going to build up a steel touring bike or entry bike for a girl, I would probably pick Sram Apex.

    Why would I pick it over microshift? I could build the entire matching drivetrain with it and it's double easily replaces (kills) the triple (microshift doesn't even makes cranks). I like the feel/simplicity of double tap. Hidden cable routing has a clean look. And for value? Sram has been around longer and always been great is the warranty department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Honestly? No. But they do have a choice for which team they ride...

    And the reason why I know any of this is because my friend is a pro, riding microshift. A week ago we were on a ride, talking about his microshift. I asked what he though. His answer?

    "I'll focus on the good: It's light."

    My reply: "It's not Di2, is it?"

    And we both laughed, because his last team equipped BH G5s with Di2. We all know that microshift can't hold a candle to the top grouppos from the big three.


    What's the point? Why did I even bring up the fact that pro riders are winning races and tooling around on Microshift bikes?

    The point is that the stuff actually works. His bike didn't fall apart during the ride. He still crushed it at the sprints. My sram red s-works couldn't out shift his microshift rig up the grades. He didn't have any mechanical issues. It's functional.
    That's wonderful, it's functional. Does that make it good? Better value than 105 or Apex or another, far more refined group? Better value than Sora or Tiagra even? Is the bottom line "well it shifts, so who cares?" On the other end of the spectrum, is Di2 the biggest bang for the buck on the high end? Super Record? Sram Red?

    Pros have full time mechanics repairing and replacing parts as they fail, or tuning the drivetrain if it has an issue. 99.9% of riders don't have that, and even more can't even install their own parts, so they're at the mercy of a bike shop.

    Let's be honest: your buddy put it best. "It's light." That doesn't make it good, it only makes it light. It's also cheap, which is the big issue here. People are willing to sacrifice quality for something that's cheap. Bang for the buck doesn't mean "cheapest thing that functions" but means the best blend of cost, function and refinement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Rob,

    On what basis are you calling Microshift garbage? Do you know of it breaking down? Are there any known issues?

    I'd pick Microshift over Sora, Tiagra or 2300. It's a tie with new 105 imo. I'd pick new microshift over used 105 or most anything older than five or ten years. But that's just me: When it comes to components, I think new parts are almost always better than used (& abused).


    Ultimately...

    If I were going to build up a steel touring bike or entry bike for a girl, I would probably pick Sram Apex.

    Why would I pick it over microshift? I could build the entire matching drivetrain with it and it's double easily replaces (kills) the triple (microshift doesn't even makes cranks). I like the feel/simplicity of double tap. Hidden cable routing has a clean look. And for value? Sram has been around longer and always been great is the warranty department.
    I've ridden it enough to know that the action is stiff, the buttons fragile (seen several broken) and the overall finish and quality of construction is sorely lacking compared to the 3 big guys. I've seen bike shops strip multiple Felts of the crappy microsh!t and replace them for customers. I've seen a microsh!t shifter that was broken on the showroom floor. Great quality if it doesn't make it out the door.

    When I discuss groups on fleabay, look around. Most are takeoffs or OEM groups. Used doesn't mean abused (even JensonUSA sells OEM parts.)

    I agree with you for reasons to pick over microsh!t, although I'd still take used Shimano or SRAM parts over microsh!t.

    My riding time is important to me. I'm not going to spend it using poor quality garbage. If other people want to, then that's on them. But recommending it as the best bang for the buck is far and away not true.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigrider View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
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    The Daily Grind Cycling Journal & Tailwind Coaching

  24. #74
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    Dude, you are missing the point of.the thread! Op wasn't asking what was best, he asked best bang for the buck to do an inexpensive build for his wife! Of course duraace and red are better than microshift but you are implying that the microshift stuff is crappy that does.t even work and quite simply that is false. Bang for the buck implies one of 2 things, its either really cheap or its awfully good. A duraace di2 setup may be absolutely awesome bit its massively expensive. Someone looking to do weekend clubrides can have a grand old time doing it on microshift parts that are 1/6th the cost. I rode my microshift brifters for 18months never had to make an adjustment and the bike shifted great. Eith that said, yes, the shifting of my force group on my motobecane is much crisper and the throws shorter. But its a lot more expensive.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous View Post
    Pros will endure whatever they're paid to ride... and the legs, in 99.9% of the cases, are still the deciding factor. We, as paying customers, don't have to endure products that don't feel right, that wont last...

    Value shouldn't be just evaluated by price and specs, value drops a lot when something cheap only lasts a season... or everytime your friends have to wait because you have to fix, adjust, hack crappy parts.
    I agree and my point is that microshift isn't totally crappy, it is built reliably and will last. Most people will elect to buy another bike that is nicer all around and abandon microshift that route and while resale value won't be as high as the big 3 it doesn't need to be because the cost of acquisition was less.

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