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  1. #1
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    New Components Still Not Working Right

    I had started a thread about my experience getting a new small chain ring, new chain, and new cassette:
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/com...ng-364672.html

    To sum up, the first problem was that the mechanic didn't check the cable. It was frayed and that caused shifting problems. Brought it back and a new cable was put in. Still didn't work right with the chain jumping all the time. Brought it back again. This time they removed a link from the chain and the owner/mechanic took it for a test ride. Everything was fine. On my first ride I noticed a tiny bit of noise but it was basically fine. The next ride I noticed more noise. Then, yesterday, I had my third ride and especially for the smaller cogs when in the small chain ring, it made noise and even jumped once. When I looked down while pedaling, I could see that the bottom portion of the chain was constantly trying to move to the left.

    I'm at a total loss as to what the problem could be at this point. Do I just live with it? I stand a lot and now I just don't have confidence that the chain won't skip. It's somewhat better in the big ring but I usually ride in the small ring. Do I bring it back a fourth time to the shop? The new cable should have stretched some by the time I returned it the last time so when they had it close to perfect, why didn't it stay that way? Is it possible it stretched more and a further adjustment is needed?

    I like the shop in general but at what point does customer service end and I should expect to pay more? I'm almost ready to bring it to a new shop. This is my best bike and it's so irritating to ride like this.
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  2. #2
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    OK, so reading this as well as your previous thread, it looks like you replaced your chain, cassette and rings.

    The only thing left I can come up with is that your rear derailleur hanger is bent and your derailleur is out of alignment. This happens more than you might think. All you need is for the bike to fall on the drive side or some careless rider to bump it with his front wheel. Believe me, I know first hand!

    If they didn't check this, I really think it's time to find a new shop. After hearing they didn't even question the cable at first, it's pretty obvious your shop isn't very thorough.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    OK, so reading this as well as your previous thread, it looks like you replaced your chain, cassette and rings.

    The only thing left I can come up with is that your rear derailleur hanger is bent and your derailleur is out of alignment. This happens more than you might think. All you need is for the bike to fall on the drive side or some careless rider to bump it with his front wheel. Believe me, I know first hand!

    If they didn't check this, I really think it's time to find a new shop. After hearing they didn't even question the cable at first, it's pretty obvious your shop isn't very thorough.
    Actually the first time I went, the mechanic said it was slightly bent but he fixed it. The other mechanic deemed it okay on the subsequent visits. I know it hasn't fallen or been bumped since unless something happened out of my presence.
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  4. #4
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Cables do not stretch. Housing can compress, ferrules can be more thoroughly seated on the housing, but cables do NOT stretch. The end result is the same, but not the cause. If you are trying to ride in the 11, 12, or 13 cog while in the small ring the chain is probably hitting the back of the big ring and jumping when it hits the shift pins/ramps. Nothing can be done to fix this if it's actually what's happening.
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  5. #5
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    What he said. New cables almost always need to be re-adjusted after the ends 'seat' themselves in.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Cables do not stretch. Housing can compress, ferrules can be more thoroughly seated on the housing, but cables do NOT stretch........
    ....except at the end of their life when strands are breaking. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Cables do not stretch. Housing can compress, ferrules can be more thoroughly seated on the housing, but cables do NOT stretch. The end result is the same, but not the cause. If you are trying to ride in the 11, 12, or 13 cog while in the small ring the chain is probably hitting the back of the big ring and jumping when it hits the shift pins/ramps. Nothing can be done to fix this if it's actually what's happening.
    But it was basically okay on the first ride since the last visit. So something happened. Perhaps it's the housing that you're referencing. I stopped by the shop without my bike (I happened to be in the area) and talked to the owner a little while ago. He was really nice and said they want to get it right so I'll be bringing it back on Monday.

    I'm a little confused about what you're saying though. The derailleur only has about 14,000 miles on it. If the chain is hitting the back of the big ring, why is this? The derailleur or the housing? What is the fix? I rode in those gears for thousands of miles with no issue. They are my favorite gear ratios and I'm loathe to have to give them up.

    Thanks for your insight.
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  8. #8
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB176 View Post
    But it was basically okay on the first ride since the last visit. So something happened. Perhaps it's the housing that you're referencing. I stopped by the shop without my bike (I happened to be in the area) and talked to the owner a little while ago. He was really nice and said they want to get it right so I'll be bringing it back on Monday.

    I'm a little confused about what you're saying though. The derailleur only has about 14,000 miles on it. If the chain is hitting the back of the big ring, why is this? The derailleur or the housing? What is the fix? I rode in those gears for thousands of miles with no issue. They are my favorite gear ratios and I'm loathe to have to give them up.

    Thanks for your insight.
    If you've used those ratios before then it might be something else...but...in the Shimano service instructions it says very clearly that you probably won't be able to use the 11/12/13 while in the small ring due to the reason I stated in my previous post. I really can't say w/o seeing your bike. Using the smallest cogs in the small ring is not smart, just so you know. You'd be much better off shifting to the big ring and going back a couple of cogs. Same ratios, difference physical gears.

    If this is the case now and the chain is hitting the back of the big ring there is no adjustment to stop it. I've already said this.

    ETA: You previously had an 11-28, now you have an 11-32. As the cogs get bigger the odds that the chain is going to hit the back of the big ring increases. You rode 14k miles on the 28...now you have a 32. I'm betting the chain is hitting the big ring.
    Last edited by cxwrench; 06-23-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post


    ETA: You previously had an 11-28, now you have an 11-32. As the cogs get bigger the odds that the chain is going to hit the back of the big ring increases. You rode 14k miles on the 28...now you have a 32. I'm betting the chain is hitting the big ring.
    The size of the 11,12,13,14, etc didn't change though just going to an 11-32 from a 11-28. He'll have one larger cog on the back at the expense of the 15 tooth cog but the last 4 on the small end of the cassette will still be the same. This would not cause any difference between striking the back of the big ring now vs before. Regardless, still highly likely especially if the chain has much slack in it at any point

  10. #10
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloverb103 View Post
    The size of the 11,12,13,14, etc didn't change though just going to an 11-32 from a 11-28. He'll have one larger cog on the back at the expense of the 15 tooth cog but the last 4 on the small end of the cassette will still be the same. This would not cause any difference between striking the back of the big ring now vs before. Regardless, still highly likely especially if the chain has much slack in it at any point
    You're right, I wasn't thinking correctly.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloverb103 View Post
    The size of the 11,12,13,14, etc didn't change though just going to an 11-32 from a 11-28. He'll have one larger cog on the back at the expense of the 15 tooth cog but the last 4 on the small end of the cassette will still be the same. This would not cause any difference between striking the back of the big ring now vs before. Regardless, still highly likely especially if the chain has much slack in it at any point
    I think the mechanic plans on removing another link tomorrow so maybe that will help with the slack. I never use the 32 so I don't think that's involved at this point.

    The only other thing is that originally the bike came with all Dura-Ace components. They replaced the small chain ring and cassette with Tiagra. Would that make a difference?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB176 View Post
    They replaced the small chain ring and cassette with Tiagra. Would that make a difference?
    No.

    If your mechanic removes another link, make sure there is enough chain to go into the large/large combo without binding, otherwise you will have much worse problems than you do now. If you are absolutely sure you will never need to use the 32T, you could set the RD limit screw to only go up to the 28T. That will allow you to run a shorter chain without danger of binding in large/large.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    No.

    If your mechanic removes another link, make sure there is enough chain to go into the large/large combo without binding, otherwise you will have much worse problems than you do now. If you are absolutely sure you will never need to use the 32T, you could set the RD limit screw to only go up to the 28T. That will allow you to run a shorter chain without danger of binding in large/large.
    I never use my big ring with the larger cogs so I don't think that would be an issue. I will be using the 32 - just not around where I live. I do quite a few mountain rides every year so that was my purpose of requesting that.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB176 View Post
    I never use my big ring with the larger cogs so I don't think that would be an issue. I will be using the 32 - just not around where I live. I do quite a few mountain rides every year so that was my purpose of requesting that.
    OK, that's fine as long as you don't forget or ever let someone else ride the bike.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  15. #15
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB176 View Post
    I never use my big ring with the larger cogs so I don't think that would be an issue. I will be using the 32 - just not around where I live. I do quite a few mountain rides every year so that was my purpose of requesting that.
    Do NOT EVER size a chain 'short' because you don't use certain gears. A chain that's on the longer side of what's correct will always work better than one that's on the shorter side. That's precisely why most of us that have been working on bikes for a living for a while size the chain in small/small.
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  16. #16
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    Don't say you 'never'.... I don't want to go big/big, but I hear some funny noises after a climb, and I'm in the big/big, sometimes you just end up there.
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  17. #17
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    Check if they put the chain on backwards. I don't know if that could cause 'jumping' but I did that once, noticed in the stand trying to adjust for shifting so never did get the stage to see if it would 'jump' but it makes a huge difference. That's just if you have a Shimano chain. The lettering should be facing outwards.

    From the sounds of your experience I'd lay 50/50 odds the chain is on backwards. If it is, who knows if that's the total cause of your problems but it's would certainly be contributing.

  18. #18
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    I'm guessing this is a 10 speed Shimano rear?

    That version is very sensitive to very small changes in rear adjustment. I'm talking 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn making a big difference. I bet the cable housing just needed to bed in to the and ferrules, and all you need is a small rear adjustment.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Check if they put the chain on backwards. I don't know if that could cause 'jumping' but I did that once, noticed in the stand trying to adjust for shifting so never did get the stage to see if it would 'jump' but it makes a huge difference. That's just if you have a Shimano chain. The lettering should be facing outwards.

    From the sounds of your experience I'd lay 50/50 odds the chain is on backwards. If it is, who knows if that's the total cause of your problems but it's would certainly be contributing.
    ^And this^ Makes a surprising difference.
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  20. #20
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    Regarding what cx said about riding the 11, 12, or 13 in the small ring. When I went from 10 to 11 speed chainrings the exact situation cx detailed happened to me. For what ever reason, the 11 speed rings are thicker or at least formed or molded in a way that there was way less clearance while cross chaining and the chain was hitting the ramps etc...on the backside of the big ring. I use SRAM so not sure if Shimano is the same.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Check if they put the chain on backwards. I don't know if that could cause 'jumping' ......
    It sure can! My 2014 Synapse with 10-speed 105 came from the factory with the chain installed backwards. Ghost shifting city!
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  22. #22
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    Success! I brought it back again and one of the mechanics took a video of the chain and then played in back in slow motion. It helped to identify that one of the links in the chain was defective and causing the chain to track incorrectly. The shop put on a new chain and I test rode it myself. It's absolutely perfect now with not a hint of hesitation or noise. The final test will be several complete rides but I'm confident the problem has now been fixed.

    Thanks Woody's!!
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