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  1. #1
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    Phil Wood outboard bearings...spacers needed?

    I have replaced my Shimano 6600 outboard bearings with Phil Wood external bearings. The BB shell is 68mm and did not have any spacers between the frame and 6600 cups. I have looked high and low for an online answer but can't seem to find out whether or not I need spacers for the PW cups. Will I just have to keep trying combinations of spacers until I get a good chainline or good front derailleur adjustment? The crank is a Hollowtech II FC-R700 compact. PhilWood.com, Park Tool, YouTube, and other sources did not provide an
    answer.

    Thanks,
    Dan
    Last edited by dantheviking; 01-05-2011 at 04:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Squirrel Hunter
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    Who you gonna call?

    Pick up the phone and give Phil Woods a call or send them an e-mail. They have always been responsive when I had questions about their products.
    Luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity.

  3. #3
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    Yep, you will need some spacers to replicate the total width of the BB shell with the Shimano BB cups. The Phil Wood cups are not as wide as Shimano's (and seemingly every other manufacturer's for some odd reason). I tried the Phil Wood BB when it was first released and was not impressed. I have never known a road outboard BB to need spacers. When I called Phil Wood they talked to me like I was stupid.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo1
    Yep, you will need some spacers to replicate the total width of the BB shell with the Shimano BB cups. The Phil Wood cups are not as wide as Shimano's (and seemingly every other manufacturer's for some odd reason). I tried the Phil Wood BB when it was first released and was not impressed. I have never known a road outboard BB to need spacers. When I called Phil Wood they talked to me like I was stupid.

    Hmmm, I am not a big fan of being talked down to by someone after shelling out dough to buy their product. Thanks for the heads-up bdaghissalo1. I did send them an email per Junior's advice. Hopefully someone helpful at PW will answer.

    Thanks for taking the time to post.

    Best,
    Dan

  5. #5
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    This is what I heard from Phil Wood Service via email:

    Hi Dan,

    If the Shimano outboard cups you are replacing did not utilize spacers
    then there should not be a need for spacers with the new Phil Wood cups.
    The Phil OBB cups are actually just slightly thicker (or wider) than other
    cups on the market such as Shimano so it should make for just a straight
    change out.

    Thank you,
    Phil Wood & Co.

    This doesn't seem quite right to me since the Phil outboard cups are designed for both road and mountain use. Chris King for example has separate cups for either road or mtn bike use. Same with Shimano.

    The mystery deepens.

  6. #6
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    Unless Phil have changed the design of their cups, they are definitely not as wide as the DA cups. I just went and compared them and I reckon the Phil cups are each about 1.5mm narrower than DA.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo1
    Unless Phil have changed the design of their cups, they are definitely not as wide as the DA cups. I just went and compared them and I reckon the Phil cups are each about 1.5mm narrower than DA.
    That's about what I measure as well.

    Ok, so I know to get correct chainline by making sure distance from middle of seat tube to middle of both chainrings should be 43.5mm. I can use spacers (or not) to get that measurement. But then what do I do on the non-drive side to make sure the bearing pre-load adjustment is correct? I think both drive and non-drive sides need to be considered together. No?

    I long for the old days when I was a shop wrench and stems were quills and BBs were cups, ball bearings, and axle.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  8. #8
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    You should be putting the spacers in between the cup and the bb shell, so the bearing preload adjustment shouldn't be affected, no?

  9. #9
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    This is what I received from the online retailer I bought the external Phil Wood BB cups from:

    Hello Dan,

    Thanks for your email. You will only need to us bottom bracket spacers if you have clearance issues with the driveside crankarm and the chainstay on your frame. If the driveside crankarm is hitting the chainstay, then you should use spacers to push the bearing cup farther outboard until the crankarm clears the chainstay. Most often, this is not necessary and that’s why Phil Wood does not include the spacers with the outboard bottom bracket. I assume this is a multi-geared bike, so chainline shouldn’t be an issue if your front derailleur is properly adjusted.

    If you do run into clearance issues with your crankarm and chainstay, then all you would need is to buy one or two Phil Wood Outboard BB Spacers for $3.00 each.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeRider
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    Thanks for the heads up...I'll stick with Shimano.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by andulong
    Thanks for the heads up...I'll stick with Shimano.
    With 20/20 hindsight, I would agree with you. Else, go with Chris King if you want a bling BB.

    Dan

  12. #12
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    Just to close out this thread......I ended up not getting any definitive answer from my queries. Since the Phil Wood Cups are narrower that the Shimano 6600 cups I had, I decided to put the 6600 cups back in and measure the distance from the outside of both bearing cups. It was around 91mm or close. The Phil Wood cups installed were around 89mm. I installed (one) .7mm spacer under each bearing cup and called it good.

    Dan

  13. #13
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    YES you do need a spacer......for MTB

    folks
    after some amazingly inept responses from Phil Wood i measured a few things and figured out that the phil wood outboard bb seems to match the shimano/fsa/ck/raceface MTB standard in terms of stack width (about 10.5mm from frame surface of cup to face of bearing cover outside). I went to my LBS and picked up a 2.5mm spacer from them, which is required for use in a 73mm shell....just like most outboard bearing/ crank systems (and as such 3 x 2.5mm spacers would be needed to fit a 68mm shell). This is MTB speak. Road will be different - Chris King seems to supply a fatter cup for road use - but i don't know about the standard.
    Cheers

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