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  1. #1
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    Question: New crank, old bike?

    I want to replace a crankset on a road bike from the mid-80's. This bike has a Campy bottom bracket, and currently has a Shimano 600 crankset. The bike has a six speed freewheel, shimano 600 rear derailleur and downtube indexing shifter for rear, friction for front. Campy front braize-on mount derailleur.

    Do the current cranksets (being designed for 9 & 10 speed chains) work OK with older six speed chains and front derrailleurs?

    I would really like to go with a Campy crankset, but one of modest price, such as Centaur or Veloce, or something. Or at the least change out the chainrings on the existing Shimano 600 crank. I want to eliminate the Biospace rings it currently has.

    Or, is this even an issue? I know that chains have some of the same inside dimensions.(distance between links).

  2. #2
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    what a mismatch !!

    Can't imagine why anyone would use a campy BB with a Shimano crank. Shimano uses a JIS taper and campy has an ISO taper. The ISO is smaller, which could make it impossible to tighten the crank properly and the crank will be located 3-5mm further to the left than intended for the spindle length. Use of a Campy BB could also damage the crank's internal taper.

    Since a pair of chainrings costs close to $50 it might be smarter to just buy a cheap, but new crank, and the correct BB to got with it. Fortunately, BB threads have not changed since the 80's. Nashbar has a Sora crank for $50 and a BB for $22. Still a lot of $ to invest in a bike that old.

  3. #3
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    But will new crank work with old chain size?

    The bike is a Saronni with Columbus tubes, campy dropouts, headset, campy bottom bracket, and otherwise top components. It is somewhat obvious to me that the crank, rear derailluer and shifters were changed out to allow for indexed rear shifts. (I bought the bike used in the early 1990s) I believe this bike originally had a campy crankset...so with the Campy bottom bracket already there, that would be the logical choice. The existing Shimano 600 crank fits perfectly on the campy bottom bracket shaft, lines up fine, tightens up fine. I do not like the Biospace chainwheels this crank is equipped with. I could just change out the chainwheels if I knew where to get standard Shimano 600 chainwheels, but I think this model is discontinued? Maybe something current matches the chainwheel bolt pattern?

    My question was if I could just purchase a brand new crank and have it work OK with the older chain size used for six speed freewheels? I have two sets of fine wheels with six speed freewheels, and I do not want to obsolete these wheels, as I like them, and I like the bike, and it is, as far as I can determine a first class Columbus tubes and fork bike with very nice lugwork, and braize-ons for front derailleur and downtube shifters, and water bottle. It has Cinelli seatpost and handlebar post and handlebar, all in all a very nice bike I have had for a long time.

    Phototone

  4. #4
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    other options...

    Any 130mm bolt circle chain rings should work adequately, they don't have to be Shimano 600. The wider spacing for 6/7speed should be built into the crank.

    Harris Cyclery recommends the SRAM PC-58 chain for 6,7 & 8 speed drivetrains.

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings.html

    FWIW, the proper BB will have a JIS (Shimano) taper with a 113mm spindle length. These are available at Nasbar if you ever need one.

  5. #5
    ARP
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    Ben there, tried that...

    Quote Originally Posted by phototone
    The bike is a Saronni with Columbus tubes, campy dropouts, headset, campy bottom bracket, and otherwise top components. It is somewhat obvious to me that the crank, rear derailluer and shifters were changed out to allow for indexed rear shifts. (I bought the bike used in the early 1990s) I believe this bike originally had a campy crankset...so with the Campy bottom bracket already there, that would be the logical choice. The existing Shimano 600 crank fits perfectly on the campy bottom bracket shaft, lines up fine, tightens up fine. I do not like the Biospace chainwheels this crank is equipped with. I could just change out the chainwheels if I knew where to get standard Shimano 600 chainwheels, but I think this model is discontinued? Maybe something current matches the chainwheel bolt pattern?

    My question was if I could just purchase a brand new crank and have it work OK with the older chain size used for six speed freewheels? I have two sets of fine wheels with six speed freewheels, and I do not want to obsolete these wheels, as I like them, and I like the bike, and it is, as far as I can determine a first class Columbus tubes and fork bike with very nice lugwork, and braize-ons for front derailleur and downtube shifters, and water bottle. It has Cinelli seatpost and handlebar post and handlebar, all in all a very nice bike I have had for a long time.

    Phototone
    I think what you will find is that the crank with Biopace has a bolt pattern all it's own and a standard 130mm ring will not work as the bolt pattern does not line up. I have a 1989 Schwinn first gen Alu bike that came with biopace. A few seasons ago I was building up a fixie and thought that I could use that crank that had been removed and replaced with a 105 triple for the fixie. Removed the rings and placed the biopace ring up against the standard.....not even close. I can suggest this, you could shop around for a while and find an old Campy crank to fit, there are websites that are dedicated to old bike stuff, providing this is not your #1 ride. You may be shocked at some of the prices old Campy stuff sells for, sometimes more than better new stuff. At the very least you have a wonderful fixie project bike that fits you in your possession.

  6. #6
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    wrong...

    Biopace chain rings for road bike double cranks have the same 130mm bolt circle as round shimano rings. They were also made for triple cranks in the normal 110/74 bolt circles.

    http://sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html

    Easy to tell for sure, see if the holes measure 76.4mm center to center (or inside edge to outside edge).

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings.html
    Last edited by C-40; 10-15-2004 at 04:19 PM.

  7. #7
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    Campy ISO/JIS

    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    Can't imagine why anyone would use a campy BB with a Shimano crank. Shimano uses a JIS taper and campy has an ISO taper. The ISO is smaller, which could make it impossible to tighten the crank properly and the crank will be located 3-5mm further to the left than intended for the spindle length. Use of a Campy BB could also damage the crank's internal taper.
    Acording to philwood.com, campy cranks 94 and later use ISO taper and 93 and earlier use JIS taper.

  8. #8
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    Well there you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Coggs
    Acording to philwood.com, campy cranks 94 and later use ISO taper and 93 and earlier use JIS taper.

    Thats the reason my Shimano 600 crank fits so well on a campy bottom bracket, both from the late 1980's.

    Phototone

  9. #9
    ARP
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    I got a double Shimano crank with 74 BP

    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    Biopace chain rings for road bike double cranks have the same 130mm bolt circle as round shimano rings. They were also made for triple cranks in the normal 110/74 bolt circles.

    http://sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html

    Easy to tell for sure, see if the holes measure 76.4mm center to center (or inside edge to outside edge).

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chainrings.html
    It is biopace, Shimano Exage, I believe the precursor to 105 components. If mine is the exception, I'm sure there are more goofball biopace rings floating around that will not fit a 130 BP. What I did discover was that S. Brown uses biopace on his fixies, so it turns out I could use my old crank on my restored bike from last summer as a fixed gear. Originally passed on the idea as logical thinking was without some type of chain tensioner, how would biopace rings keep chain tension, being oval shaped.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Gunman
    I think what you will find is that the crank with Biopace has a bolt pattern all it's own and a standard 130mm ring will not work as the bolt pattern does not line up. I have a 1989 Schwinn first gen Alu bike that came with biopace. A few seasons ago I was building up a fixie and thought that I could use that crank that had been removed and replaced with a 105 triple for the fixie. Removed the rings and placed the biopace ring up against the standard.....not even close. I can suggest this, you could shop around for a while and find an old Campy crank to fit, there are websites that are dedicated to old bike stuff, providing this is not your #1 ride. You may be shocked at some of the prices old Campy stuff sells for, sometimes more than better new stuff. At the very least you have a wonderful fixie project bike that fits you in your possession.
    That wasn't my experience when I switched mine out...

    BP = Standard bolt circle = standard round rings.

    M
    I've moved back to NoVA. PLEASE change the weather!

  11. #11
    Old, slow, and fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phototone
    I want to replace a crankset on a road bike from the mid-80's. This bike has a Campy bottom bracket, and currently has a Shimano 600 crankset. The bike has a six speed freewheel, shimano 600 rear derailleur and downtube indexing shifter for rear, friction for front. Campy front braize-on mount derailleur.

    Do the current cranksets (being designed for 9 & 10 speed chains) work OK with older six speed chains and front derrailleurs?

    I would really like to go with a Campy crankset, but one of modest price, such as Centaur or Veloce, or something. Or at the least change out the chainrings on the existing Shimano 600 crank. I want to eliminate the Biospace rings it currently has.

    Or, is this even an issue? I know that chains have some of the same inside dimensions.(distance between links).
    Yer probably better off making it back to "stock." Check out www.campyonly.com for their classifieds. Someone probably has the crank that is supposed to be on yer bike.

    If you wanna go the cheap SOBs route: buy a new set of 130mm rings. Now would be the time to get 38/39t inners or 52/53t outers.

    IMO this is not the bike to spend large dollars on. Once you start looking at what its gonna take to upgrade, yer better off saving yer ducats for a new (used! with 9sp) bike.

    M
    I've moved back to NoVA. PLEASE change the weather!

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